Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 89 - Official Discussion Thread

[YamiGoku]

I think the Dragon Ball world feels more real this way, because it would be weird for a high School to have only white students and teachers.

My only complains with the chapter is that they made Trunks too much of a goof, I understand that he is a teen and he dosent have to be a genius, but they are going a bit hard with the dumbness, He thinking beta may be a ghost is a bit too dumb.

Still, really enjoyed this chapter.

[Lance Freeman]

This just be my own personal experience talking here, but it appears as though the school that Trunks and Goten go to might be a Catholic school based on the uniforms. Which, if that's the case, creates a fun visual image of a world religion popping up that revolves around an old, alien slug man and the genie who works there/owns the place.

[eledoremassis02]

I think the Dragon Ball world feels more real this way, because it would be weird for a high School to have only white students and teachers.

My only complains with the chapter is that they made Trunks too much of a goof, I understand that he is a teen and he dosent have to be a genius, but they are going a bit hard with the dumbness, He thinking beta may be a ghost is a bit too dumb.

Still, really enjoyed this chapter.

I never really saw them as all being white (both in Z and Super). Thats really kind of odd, but yea characters like Angela (in Z) I can see as being white as well as Trunks friend (based off of having an asian and black friend). Not sure wich characters are supposed asian with dyed/bleached hair tho, but thats down to the art style/no info *that I am aware of*. But there are clearly Japanese characters and a lot of Japanese educational culture mixed in (cause well, its a comic aimed at the Japanese lol). I think the main takeaway is that there is now a Black (or atleast mixed) character which is a big shift or Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball hasnt been this diverse since well...Dragon Ball (by that I mean pre-Z lol)

With Trunks, he's really shaping up to become GT Trunks

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Mai remembering Future Trunks after seeing Trunks in his super hero getup was a really nice callback. I’m glad that Toyotarou is finding ways to tie back to earlier Super arcs. Great chapter. I didn’t realise how much I missed these kind of lower-stakes stories in DB.

[Draconic]

Great chapter. I especially love Hedo's characterization here. He's a super fun antagonist.

Goten is getting a great characterization here: he's a bit of an airhead like Goku, but he's much more socially skilled than his father and these two make him very unique. Considering we went through basically the entire development of two Son familiy relatives, the fact they managed to do something so new, fun and compelling with him is 100% the major highlight of the arc so far.

[TKA]

I classify them as fallacious, but not really worth arguing further only to derail the thread even more.

Decades of research and observed outcomes is the source that none of this is fallacious. The people who claim it is only have one source.

P.S: My comments were in good faith. I didn't assume any malice from you either. Just a point of contention.

If you don't care to learn, then it wasn't in good faith and was just reactionary takes.

[Miracles]

Dr. Hedo is certainly making the world go round right now.

[Yuji]

Yawn, not another thread ruined by the schizoid representation discourse.

I love how Hedo starts to like superheroes because of Goten and Trunks. Cause and effect and continuity between arcs and events is something missing from modern Dragon Ball.

[Jiren The Alpha]

It looks like Trunks math teather is a reference to Shakuntala Devi. Pretty cool by Toyotarou if that's the case.

[MCDaveG]

I don't need to go in detail... I love this arc.

Only thing that I seriously hate is that this chapter felt shorter than the one before and I wen't through it in manner of minutes.
Now I have to wait another month!

For an old timer, that watched/read the original back in the days and characters like Uub or Namu were even more interesting and making the Dragon Ball world feel more big and international instead of just everyone having the same anime design, it's interesting to see the world around the characters get more diverse. I wonder, if it is the testament of Japanese culture evolving as well or if it is just for the sake of international audience. In the end it doesn't matter and I rate this recent with everything in it as 8/10 so far.

[Yuji]

I wonder how much could realistically be done with this arc and how long it lasts. I'm all for slice of life hijinks but you could theoretically end this arc this chapter and it would still work as a prequel to the movie. Wondering if there's a DB climax and transition into more intenae action in mind or if it stays this way for a short 5 to 10 chapter long arc.

[Mr Baggins]

Lemme just say that as a straight white dude, I think it's cool as hell that we're finally getting more, and actually respectful, diversity and representation in a series with an unfortunate history of harmful stereotypes. I'd even say it was kickstarted with Toriyama's design of Pan's teacher in Super Hero, and this all just feels like a welcome extension of that.

If you don't think it matters, you are wholly unfamiliar with the literally centuries-old institutional role media has played (and continues to play) when it comes to marginalized groups. There is absolutely no reason to take issue with people celebrating a course correction, especially when it concerns one of the only real blemishes on an otherwise brilliant action manga from the 80's and 90's. DB always had people of color; the difference is that it's just done more tastefully now.

I have nothing more to add to this subject that other users haven't already said.

[LightBing]

Nice to see Bra, hopefully she's just not another Bulma. Would be nice to see her pick up fighting as well.

Honestly, I'm irrationally upset about this chapter because it kinda suggests exactly that, even if it's just part of a gag and I know it's just part of a gag. We really don't need Bulla to be Bulma, we already have Bulma for that purpose. At this point, Bulma's a character that won't ever be "phased out", much like Goku, so it's a total waste. Instead, please do literally anything else with her character. Sure, it'd be perfect if I got my warrior princess like in my fanfic, but it's not a requirement, I just want Toyotaro (or Toriyama or whoever) to not be so uncreative about it that she becomes a clone character

Bulma categorizing her children based on who they take after is a bad sign. It's still early and they can go any number of ways, I'm just not that confident.
Plus she's competing with Pan in the "emerging Saiyan Women" category. Based on trends, opportunities for her to develop are likely limited.

[Koitsukai]

During the Buu arc, when it went to commercials, sometimes they would show Goten lifting the car Gohan and Videl were driving... just like he did in this chapter.

I'm loving these nods to other arcs or moments of the franchise.

[LoganForkHands73]

In all sincerity, it was interactions on this forum that convinced me of the importance of diversity in media. Not just on our screens and pages, but behind the scenes as well.

On the one hand, Luso Saiyan is of course correct that we don't need characters to look like us or be like us for us to find them relatable or compelling. Imagine if nobody could relate to Son Goku without being a spiky-haired, vaguely Asian-coded martial arts nut of Saiyan descent. But you'd be wrong (and kind of a dick) to say that a call for more representation = "narcissism". Demanding that characters have to look like you is not the point that anyone is making, it's that media can be terrifyingly effective at shaping people's opinions and perspectives on the world, so having positive portrayals of minorities can help to both bridge empathy and give enormous comfort to people from similar circumstances.

I'm in a position of privilege where I'll never know what it's like to never see a positive portrayal of people with my skin colour, my gender, my nationality, my economic class, etc. in mainstream media. Without speaking on anyone else's behalf, I get the sense that for most people who have to experience this on the regular, enforcing universal diversity across the board in some Orwellian nightmare isn't the goal, it's just about being able to have enough options where you can read stories about black people, transgender people, disabled people, or at least seeing them featured in some dignified capacity. Japanese media should be held almost* as accountable as American media on this front.

So yeah, that's basically what Toyotaro's doing well in this arc: portraying a visually diverse set of characters in a natural, dignified way.

Anyway, by far my favourite part of the chapter is when Mai envisions Trunks as his Future self. As goofy and immature as Present Trunks still is thanks to his upbringing, he has a spark of potential to become a truly valiant, selfless hero like Future Trunks. While I don't think the arc has any lofty aspirations, having Trunks develop into the idealised version of himself that Mai once saw would be an excellent thrust for the story going forward. Also, Goten did something, yaaay (even if he's just a distraction).

*I say "almost" here because I give Japan some minor leeway on the racial front, it is a 98% homogenous country after all, though there's far less excuse for poorly representing LGBT and other lifestyles/cultures which are rife there. Without condescension, it's great that Toyotaro is making an effort because chances are high that he's never personally interacted with a white, black or south Asian person in his life, let alone any that are legal Japanese citizens.

[TKA]

Yawn, not another thread ruined by the schizoid representation discourse.

People: "Wow, it sure is cool that different racial and ethnic minorities are being represented in DB now"

Some people: "WHO CARES! REPRESENTATION IRRELEVANT! NARCISSISM! SCHIZOIDS! BSGTYGAFGRGT"

I dunno, seems like the people who are most vocal about this are the people complaining about people being happy about representation.

Start here.

[Cipher]

Still cute, fun. Actually laughed out loud at Goten casually picking up the truck, and the timing of that whole sequence after Trunks had been so careful to not reveal his strength.

Otherwise though ... I think I have about one month left in me for this story, as the formula of encountering a new android each chapter alongside the high school antics is already running its course, and we know that Goten and Trunks don't play an enormous role in the story this is supposedly setting up/will lead into.

I'd kind of rather wrap this up and head into whatever the manga wants to do in its adaptation of Super Hero proper (or better yet, a new storyline, but I don't suppose that's coming for a while longer still).

+for respectful racial diversity in DB's side/background cast.

[Zelvin]

Yawn, not another thread ruined by the schizoid representation discourse.

People: "Wow, it sure is cool that different racial and ethnic minorities are being represented in DB now"

Some people: "WHO CARES! REPRESENTATION IRRELEVANT! NARCISSISM! SCHIZOIDS! BSGTYGAFGRGT"

I dunno, seems like the people who are most vocal about this are the people complaining about people being happy about representation.

Start here.

Here's the thing I've found. Most people don't about so-called "diversity" in the series, because it was always there and part of the world. What rubs people the wrong way is when Tourists and Fake Fans go around showering something with praise for being "more diverse and representative", then it shows they don't care about the story and literally only care about superficial outward traits. I wouldn't have cared one whit about the Ethnic Identity of the teacher, because it's irrelevant to the story and is just part of her character. People running in, pointing at it and shouting about how it's "better now" have no real interest in the work at all. Only virtue signaling.

Wanna see how utterly stupid the whole thing is? Here, let this old man pull out his time machine.

Bora. Native American inspired design. Guy is goddamn huge, stops bullets with his muscles and was one of the first major tragedies in the show. He's also a kind and loving Father who only fought to protect his son and his tribe.


Nam. Indian inspired character who participated in the Tenkaichi Budokai. He was strong and skilled, but his main points was his respect, kindness and selflessness. Only participating in the tournament in the hopes of using the prize money to buy food and water for his people. He was ultimately helped by Kame Senin, who gave him a capsule that stores vast quantities of water. Which he could get for free on tap while at the tournament. Allowing Nam to return to his people and use that water to revitalize the parched earth and grow crops.


The Monks of the Orin Temple. Minor antagonists at best and had given Krillin a troubling time while he attended the Orin Temple initially. Their arrogance took a nosedive after Krillin showed them up, as well as after they got their asses handed to them by Giran. Speaking of;


Giran. He's a literal talking pterodactyl. What else more needs be said?


Staff Officer Black. Don't care what anyone thinks of his design. He's a skilled combatant, effectively 2nd in command of the entire RRA. Only dealing with Commander Red's harassment because he believed in the goal of using the Dragonballs to place the world under their control. When it came to light Red just wanted to use them to make himself taller than anyone on Earth, Black had no qualms killing his Commander and assuming control of the RRA in order to fulfill their objective of world conquest.


General Blue. He's basically Aryan, but has no issues with his comrades. Except if they're incompetent or weak. He's a capable fighter with a special ability and cares about his appearance. He's basically the Original Zarbon. Oh and he's gay. And nobody was throwing fits because he thought Bulma was icky for trying to use her womanly charms on him.


King Furry. He's a literal anthropomorphic dog who is the ruler of the world. He is kind and open-minded. In fact, athro's are a normal part of the world. Puar, Oolong, Korrin, etc etc. Not an issue at all with them at all in the entire series just for being what they are.

Can keep goin with King Chappa, the tournament staff, and then literally every alien race in Z. Then further in Super. Why does "diversity" only count if it just happens to be a Human with a different skin tone? Does anyone understand how terrible that sounds? None of the characters in the series look like me and I could've give the slightest shit about that. Goku was kinda dumb but endearing at the start. Bulma was sassy and intelligent and would use whatever she had to get what she wanted, while still also helping people. Piccolo's been one of my favorite characters in the entire series for the longest time and I ain't green.

I care more about the story being told, how well it's being told and how well the characters are written, than anything to do with their skin color or purported nationality. And as far as the story goes, it's been going downhill since the Broly movie and hasn't stopped after puncturing the Earth's core. So seeing Trunks being treated like a tech illiterate twat, a 2-3yr old Bulla being heralded as a genius who can just fix components and computers without ever having any kind of education to infer understanding of mechanics and coding, I find to be a lazy and creatively bankrupt attempt to explain away Hedo being a "super genius" who can just build God-Level androids with the equivalent of old comics and a pair of hair clips to McGuyver them together.

The arc is boring and the teams hero outfits are ugly. Gohan's Great Saiyaman outfit was at least aesthetically sound and was sort of a combination of a gi and Saiyan Armor aspects; the bodysuit, gloves and boots. Plus, Bulma gave Gohan that watch that allows him to transform outfits. Making it easy for him to get in and out of costume. Also, his helmet actually hides his face with the black visor not being transparent. Unlike the ones Goten and Trunks wear.

[Cipher]

This is an extremely embarrassing post.

[Koitsukai]

Y'all familiar with that domino meme?

Yeah, Toyo saying oh how about a nice hindu teacher for a change? and then angry people at home for half an hour in front of their computers writting essays with illustrations and all.