Toriyama and Toyotaro are bad at writing female characters/female Warriors

[super michael]

You know, I think there's a lot of bad faith in the post above. You can say Chichi is more tolerant in Z but there's some context behind that you can't just ignore. I mean, Chichi never said in Super something like "I care more about my son's education than Earth's future", that's from Z.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train with Goku and Piccolo for 3 years, even if at first Chi Chi put Gohan study's before the earth.

In DBS Chi Chi knew about Future Z fighters deaths by the hands of the androids along with Zamasu that killed her Future family, yet she acts like there is no good reason to train at all. She makes poor excuse and her lack of faith in her son is just awful.
She ignores that Goten wants to get strong.

Chi Chi in DBZ compromise, while DBS Chi Chi doesn't compromise.

Are you forgetting that Chi Chi doesn't want Goku to train in DBS? Chi Chi doesn't care about the earth being close to blowing up by Beerus, which Goten and Gohan stated and just cared about Goku working. Goten and Gohan stated that by Goku training that would protect the earth from danger.

Chi Chi lied about using all of Mr Satan money, just so Goku doesn't train

The one showing bad faith are the Chi Chi fans.

[JulieYBM]

Chi-Chi's a bad character because we have next to no insight into her as a character and what little we do hear from her is generic stereotypes with zero character arc. She isn't written to be likable, she isn't poised within the narrative to be a character we cheer on, either. Chi-Chi isn't cool or relatable, she's there to be framed as a nuisance for the male characters because that's what a lot of the writers for the franchise believe she (and thus women) believe she is or a role that women must fulfill, either in reality or within fiction.

It's bad writing and insulting ideology, with zero pushback from staff to challenge the notion of that archetype.

[super michael]

Chi-Chi's a bad character because we have next to no insight into her as a character and what little we do hear from her is generic stereotypes with zero character arc. She isn't written to be likable, she isn't poised within the narrative to be a character we cheer on, either. Chi-Chi isn't cool or relatable, she's there to be framed as a nuisance for the male characters because that's what a lot of the writers for the franchise believe she (and thus women) believe she is or a role that women must fulfill, either in reality or within fiction.

It's bad writing and insulting ideology, with zero pushback from staff to challenge the notion of that archetype.

I think you are spot, she is a nuisance to male character.
Chi Chi didn't want Mr Satan (grandpa of Pan) and Gohan (dad of Pan) involved in choosing how Pan grows up. However Chi Chi didn't have any problem in Videl choosing how Pan grows up.
Heck Chi Chi preferred to hear how Pan should grow up over hearing Gohan the actual parent, that is how terrible Chi Chi was in DBS Anime.

Chi Chi acts like a spoiled brat and boss male characters around, like they are her slaves. It can be her family and friends same thing.

DBS Anime Chi Chi is really at her worst. Her best is in the Buu Saga or Yo Son Goku Ova.

BoG Chi Chi while good, she tried to force Krillin a retired fighter to fight Beerus, knowing Krillin is weak.

[SSJgogeto]

Chi Chi in DBZ compromise, while DBS Chi Chi doesn't compromise.

That's not true, and it's one of the reasons I mentioned "bad faith" before. You need to ignore the context to make this conclusion.

I think something closer to the truth is this: we are literally talking about the same character, whose behavior may vary according to some external interference. She is the one who don't want Gohan to fight and some years later allowed Goten to fight. She is the one who allows Goku to train but later forbids the same Goku to train. Why? Because events occurred that influenced the decisions she made.

[Tai Lung]

Saiyan Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to Namek.

no ...

Gohan shut her mouth... and she only allowed it and not by her own will

Mecha Freeza Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train with Goku and Piccolo for 3 year..

no ...

she did the same... she scolded them and disagreed with everything until... she had no choice but to allow it...
NO DEVELOPMENT

Cell Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT with Goku for 1 year, which is 1 day outside.
.

She didn't agree either....

this time...she just chose not to argue...(because it wasn't the time)...the androdies were nearby looking to kill him
and she only has that in her defense and again the situation was different .. and later she thinks that gohan would not participate in the battle

Buu Saga Chi Chi actually trained with Goten..

irrelevant given the little information in the manga....it may just be simple teaching like sport and fitness for his health...chichi is much weaker to teach him some useful

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten to spar and play fight with Trunks..

yes but they are friends .. no danger

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten and Gohan to join the tournament, the only issue was Gohan skipping school to train, which was avoided due to Gohan saying there was money..

again ...
- for money ... they needed
- goku was going to return to participate in this... so it would be an opportunity to do it again
- no villains or dangers

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten to train to save the earth..

when goku and gohan were supposedly dead... she had no choice

Yo Son Goku Ova Chi Chi allowed Goten to battle the villains from space..

no canon

BoG Chi Chi allowed Goten to fight Beerus as Gotenks.

Also allowed in DB Super BofG arc

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to compete who picks the most vegetable, which is a friendly competition and training.

because aside from training...it was goku's job to do it...again...he's a farmer

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to spar with Goku his father.

but she did allow gohan

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to go to Whis planet to get stronger, even though Goten wants to get stronger..

she didn't agree with gohan going to namek either... it's in her personality

DBS Chi Chi even tries to prevent Goku from training. Chi Chi even lies to get her way.

and she still allows goku to go to train... she also tried to do that when goku was going to train to face the androids...

DBS Chi Chi acted like her decision on Pan override Gohan the actual father, even going as far as locking Gohan away from Pan.

Which is irrelevant because we see pan training with piccolo

DBS Chi Chi acts like a spoiled brat, who has to get everything her way. She won't compromise and she even demands others to do as she wants..

Chichi Z = Chichi Super

Remember this Present Chi Chi in DBS was aware that Future Goku and Future Goten died, yet she thinks training is bad.
She thinks just because there are no bad guy they shouldn't train at all, heck remember the Android Saga? The Z warriors in the future time line was unaware of the Android and they all died, DBS Chi Chi is aware of that.


Chi Chi never tried to stop Goku from training in DB/DBZ at all. DB/DBZ Chi Chi never resorted to lies, to prevent Goku from training.

So yes DBS Anime Chi Chi is awful, there is no getting around that. She gets a 0/10 not even 1.

goku had also explained that to her ..... and chichi

[super michael]

Saiyan Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to Namek.

no ...

Gohan shut her mouth... and she only allowed it and not by her own will

Mecha Freeza Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train with Goku and Piccolo for 3 year..

no ...

she did the same... she scolded them and disagreed with everything until... she had no choice but to allow it...
NO DEVELOPMENT

Cell Saga Chi Chi allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT with Goku for 1 year, which is 1 day outside.
.

She didn't agree either....

this time...she just chose not to argue...(because it wasn't the time)...the androdies were nearby looking to kill him
and she only has that in her defense and again the situation was different .. and later she thinks that gohan would not participate in the battle

Buu Saga Chi Chi actually trained with Goten..

irrelevant given the little information in the manga....it may just be simple teaching like sport and fitness for his health...chichi is much weaker to teach him some useful

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten to spar and play fight with Trunks..

yes but they are friends .. no danger

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten and Gohan to join the tournament, the only issue was Gohan skipping school to train, which was avoided due to Gohan saying there was money..

again ...
- for money ... they needed
- goku was going to return to participate in this... so it would be an opportunity to do it again
- no villains or dangers

Buu Saga Chi Chi allowed Goten to train to save the earth..

when goku and gohan were supposedly dead... she had no choice

Yo Son Goku Ova Chi Chi allowed Goten to battle the villains from space..

no canon

BoG Chi Chi allowed Goten to fight Beerus as Gotenks.

Also allowed in DB Super BofG arc

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to compete who picks the most vegetable, which is a friendly competition and training.

because aside from training...it was goku's job to do it...again...he's a farmer

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to spar with Goku his father.

but she did allow gohan

DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goten to go to Whis planet to get stronger, even though Goten wants to get stronger..

she didn't agree with gohan going to namek either... it's in her personality

DBS Chi Chi even tries to prevent Goku from training. Chi Chi even lies to get her way.

and she still allows goku to go to train... she also tried to do that when goku was going to train to face the androids...

DBS Chi Chi acted like her decision on Pan override Gohan the actual father, even going as far as locking Gohan away from Pan.

Which is irrelevant because we see pan training with piccolo

DBS Chi Chi acts like a spoiled brat, who has to get everything her way. She won't compromise and she even demands others to do as she wants..

Chichi Z = Chichi Super

Remember this Present Chi Chi in DBS was aware that Future Goku and Future Goten died, yet she thinks training is bad.
She thinks just because there are no bad guy they shouldn't train at all, heck remember the Android Saga? The Z warriors in the future time line was unaware of the Android and they all died, DBS Chi Chi is aware of that.


Chi Chi never tried to stop Goku from training in DB/DBZ at all. DB/DBZ Chi Chi never resorted to lies, to prevent Goku from training.

So yes DBS Anime Chi Chi is awful, there is no getting around that. She gets a 0/10 not even 1.

goku had also explained that to her ..... and chichi

After Gohan said to shut up and Chi Chi dad spoke, she allowed Gohan to go to space. This is something Chi Chi doesn't do in DBS.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train with Goku, after Goku accidently pat Chi Chi hard.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT.

Chi Chi was trained the same way as Master Roshi. She has skills in fighting, she demonstrated her skills in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament. We do know that Goten transformed against Chi Chi, that was mentioned in the manga, just not shown.

The tournament joining wasn't the problem and training wasn't the problem. The problem was skipping school. The only thing money did was allow Gohan to skip school.

Chi Chi allowed Goten to train for his battle against Buu.

Chi Chi had no problem forcing Piccolo to do Goku work and then Krillin. Picking vegetable there is nothing wrong, plus that is a form of training. However Goten + competition not allowed.

Chi Chi prevented Goten from training with Goku, while Gohan who retired Chi Chi made him spar with Goku.

Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to Namek, while Chi Chi didn't allow Goten to go to Whis planet. Chi Chi even went as far as to get Bulma involved. Basically Goku and Goten can't do what they want.

Wrong there was many time Goku wanted to train, but wasn't allowed to train, thanks to Chi Chi lies.

It is not irrelevant, Chi Chi wanted to control Pan life, even though she was not the parent. She only listened to Videl and Bulma, who Bulma isn't blood related to Pan. However Pan chose to let Pan study martial arts.
Why in the world didn't Chi Chi allow Gohan the father to make a choice. Why lock him out.

DBZ Chi Chi isn't the same as DBS Chi Chi.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train for 3 years. DBS CHi Chi wouldn't allow Goten to train with Goku his father or train with Whis to get strong.


There is no defense for DBS Chi Chi. She is a awful character. In DBZ she compromise and listen, even if there are strings attached.
In DBS there is no compromise and doesn't listen to others.


DBS Manga Chi Chi doesn't forbid anyone from training and fighting. She doesn't force others to do Goku job. DBS Manga Chi Chi still has her Buu Saga development.
As for Goku working, in the Cell Saga Chi Chi said that once Cell is defeated, Goku should get a job. I know this applies to DBS Anime.

[BWri]

DB just needs a female main villain and to give 18 more shine like Piccolo and Gohan just got in DBS SH. I wouldn't mind a heroine in a role similar to Granolah, a new protagonist, I mean. Hopefully someone who is already strong or trains to get strong and from another universe. But we have such great female characters already so I'd just like to see them featured more prominently. #18 is a personal fave.

[super michael]

The bottom line is in DBZ Chi Chi would agree, even if at first she refuse.

In DBS she refuse 100%, others can say they want to do something or why it would be good, but no there is no changing Chi Chi answer. Chi Chi lies and forces other that are not family to do what she wants.

I think this is more about defending DBS than defending Chi Chi now.

[DestructoDisc]

They aren't that bad at writing them, they're bad at handling them. I think most of the characters are likeable and have story potential, but they always get brushed aside. It was straight up insulting to me how they turned 17 into such an important character of an arc out of nowhere, while leaving 18 into the dust, and the manga even making her really unlikeable.

I think it speaks volumes about Toyo that he cares more about having his female characters look cute/sexy than making them important characters to the plot, and yeah that was really showing in the Moro and Granolah arc. Moro introduced 3 cute looking alien girls, but they were all fodder with 0 personality, and turned into "fat people ugly and funny" joke gimmick who ALSO didn't end up looking all that strong She beat up Krillin, who doesn't. That whole thing was really fatphobic and sexist. Granolah introduced Macki, who had a lot of potential and did have a personality, but ultimately ended up being a super weak fodder. Amazing that in the last chapter she gets slapped by her brother, and then gets sent to the kitchen by Freeza.

[Thani]

They aren't that bad at writing them, they're bad at handling them. I think most of the characters are likeable and have story potential, but they always get brushed aside. It was straight up insulting to me how they turned 17 into such an important character of an arc out of nowhere, while leaving 18 into the dust, and the manga even making her really unlikeable.

I think it speaks volumes about Toyo that he cares more about having his female characters look cute/sexy than making them important characters to the plot, and yeah that was really showing in the Moro and Granolah arc. Moro introduced 3 cute looking alien girls, but they were all fodder with 0 personality, and turned into "fat people ugly and funny" joke gimmick who ALSO didn't end up looking all that strong She beat up Krillin, who doesn't. That whole thing was really fatphobic and sexist. Granolah introduced Macki, who had a lot of potential and did have a personality, but ultimately ended up being a super weak fodder. Amazing that in the last chapter she gets slapped by her brother, and then gets sent to the kitchen by Freeza.

What's arguably worse is that she's an actual fighter, so when Freeza says that Elec is the weakest of the Heeter's, he's including Macki. She was much stronger than Elec and yet he bitchslapped her just like that. Poor Macki.

[Alkiser]

In my humble opinion, complaining will not change anything here, Japan is a very conservative and specific country. Any attempt at change would take years or decades, one generation would have to leave and the next generation would have to be brought up with new values and even that would not be easy because the old generation passes on its values to the younger generation.

We can complain and disagree, the fact is that so far this complaining is left to us, because we can not simply affect the culture of other countries and change it at will. If it were possible countries like Saudi Arabia would have introduced 100% gender equality long ago, and Japan would have stopped being sexist long ago.

[JulieYBM]

In my humble opinion, complaining will not change anything here, Japan is a very conservative and specific country. Any attempt at change would take years or decades, one generation would have to leave and the next generation would have to be brought up with new values and even that would not be easy because the old generation passes on its values to the younger generation.

We can complain and disagree, the fact is that so far this complaining is left to us, because we can not simply affect the culture of other countries and change it at will. If it were possible countries like Saudi Arabia would have introduced 100% gender equality long ago, and Japan would have stopped being sexist long ago.

Complaining and criticizing is how things get done. How do you think reform comes about, out of thin air?

"Women and their allies should just give up expecting better" is a hell of a weird take.

[Soppa Saia People]

Well Japan does have different gender norms/views then a place like America, I honestly wouldn't say that has much of an effect on why Dragon Ball in particular has weird things with female characters. Anime/Manga is actually one of the few mediums I think where it's extremely easy to find art created by women for women, and a lot of those series have outright progressive views on gender and femininity, some that predate Dragon Ball. I just think it comes down to Dragon Ball being a series for boys, and as a result, not having a lot of active female characters because pre-teen boys tend not to like them compared to their male counterparts. It's not really a broader cultural issue, and to be honest I think the women who fight in DB really aren't written overtly sexist, the issues they have with screen time and meaning is just a issue with how the series uses supporting characters.

Though yes I am sure Toriyama being a Japanese man born in his 50s doesn't help lol.

[Alkiser]

In my humble opinion, complaining will not change anything here, Japan is a very conservative and specific country. Any attempt at change would take years or decades, one generation would have to leave and the next generation would have to be brought up with new values and even that would not be easy because the old generation passes on its values to the younger generation.

We can complain and disagree, the fact is that so far this complaining is left to us, because we can not simply affect the culture of other countries and change it at will. If it were possible countries like Saudi Arabia would have introduced 100% gender equality long ago, and Japan would have stopped being sexist long ago.

Complaining and criticizing is how things get done. How do you think reform comes about, out of thin air?

"Women and their allies should just give up expecting better" is a hell of a weird take.

Nowhere did I suggest this thesis, I only write that it is worth focusing on goals that can be achieved rather than those that can only be complained about without much chance of success. Has your criticism on an Internet forum changed Japanese attitudes toward women?

Change doesn't just come from criticism, but from real action toward change. In contrast, here there is only complaining about the situation instead of actually trying to change it.

,,Sarcasm"
I can already see the frightened Japanese changing their multi-year approach to women because they saw people complaining on an Internet forum.

[Tai Lung]

In my humble opinion, complaining will not change anything here, Japan is a very conservative and specific country. Any attempt at change would take years or decades, one generation would have to leave and the next generation would have to be brought up with new values and even that would not be easy because the old generation passes on its values to the younger generation.

We can complain and disagree, the fact is that so far this complaining is left to us, because we can not simply affect the culture of other countries and change it at will. If it were possible countries like Saudi Arabia would have introduced 100% gender equality long ago, and Japan would have stopped being sexist long ago.

many modern animes treat girls much better than in DB....

[Tai Lung]

After Gohan said to shut up and Chi Chi dad spoke, she allowed Gohan to go to space. This is something Chi Chi doesn't do in DBS.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train with Goku, after Goku accidently pat Chi Chi hard.

Chi Chi still allowed Gohan to train in the ROSAT.

irrelevant because she was forced by the situation... not because she wanted to do that
Since goku and vegeta are always present in super, goten's participation is unnecessary

Chi Chi was trained the same way as Master Roshi. She has skills in fighting, she demonstrated her skills in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament. We do know that Goten transformed against Chi Chi, that was mentioned in the manga, just not shown.

chichi was knocked out in one hit by goku...goten is abysmally stronger than his father back then

The tournament joining wasn't the problem and training wasn't the problem. The problem was skipping school. The only thing money did was allow Gohan to skip school..

money was a reason to allow it... and the arrival of goku... if it weren't for that chichi would have refused

Chi Chi allowed Goten to train for his battle against Buu.

Because Goku and Gohan were presumed dead

Chi Chi had no problem forcing Piccolo to do Goku work and then Krillin. Picking vegetable there is nothing wrong, plus that is a form of training. However Goten + competition not allowed.

considering that things like goten being a child driving goku's tractor is inappropriate... for a child to do his father's job... it's something that chichi was not going to tolerate...
chichi never made gohan or goten work like that before...

Chi Chi prevented Goten from training with Goku, while Gohan who retired Chi Chi made him spar with Goku..

Because Goten is a much weaker child and Gohan is an adult and stronger...

Chi Chi allowed Gohan to go to Namek, while Chi Chi didn't allow Goten to go to Whis planet. Chi Chi even went as far as to get Bulma involved. Basically Goku and Goten can't do what they want..

Gohan had to yell at his mother or she wouldn't let him go....

It is not irrelevant, Chi Chi wanted to control Pan life, even though she was not the parent. She only listened to Videl and Bulma, who Bulma isn't blood related to Pan. However Pan chose to let Pan study martial arts.
Why in the world didn't Chi Chi allow Gohan the father to make a choice. Why lock him out.

and gohan ended up doing what she wanted when he grew up...

dude you can't compare different situations... because there is something called context... chichi has always been a shitty character

[super michael]

irrelevant because she was forced by the situation... not because she wanted to do that
Since goku and vegeta are always present in super, goten's participation is unnecessary

Sorry but that is a bad excuse, Goten and Goku wanted to train together in Whis planet, but Chi Chi got in the way.

Chi Chi knows of Future Gohan and Future Goten death, but still give lame excuse about there not being any bad guys.

chichi was knocked out in one hit by goku...goten is abysmally stronger than his father back then

Irrelevant you are talking about power. I am talking about skills.

Goten trains in skills with Chi Chi. Goten trains in skills and power with Trunks and later on Gohan.

money was a reason to allow it... and the arrival of goku... if it weren't for that chichi would have refused

Money only allowed Gohan to skip school, that is the only thing money allowed.
Training and fighting was allowed even without money.

You have no evidence Chi Chi was against training and fighting before Gohan mention the tournament money, however I have evidence that Goten was training before Gohan mentioned anything about money.

Goten was training when Gohan was studying. Gohan didn't start training until he was blackmailed to join the tournament.

Goten was training with Trunks, while Gohan was studying.

considering that things like goten being a child driving goku's tractor is inappropriate... for a child to do his father's job... it's something that chichi was not going to tolerate...
chichi never made gohan or goten work like that before...

The tractor you are right was dangerous.

However racing to see who picks up more vegetables, there was nothing dangerous there. Goten wanted to race against Goku, which Chi Chi forbids.

Chi Chi didn't see any problem forcing Piccolo and Krillin to pick vegetable, who wasn't interested in picking.

Because Goten is a much weaker child and Gohan is an adult and stronger...

That is a bad excuse, Goten would get stronger by training. If he isn't allowed to train he will always be weak.

Goten likes to train and Goku is willing to train with Goten. Chi Chi shouldn't interfere.

Gohan had to yell at his mother or she wouldn't let him go....

In the Buu Saga his sons are allowed to train and fight, even when no money is involved.
The only thing Chi Chi wouldn't allow is skipping school, if there is no money involved.

DBS Manga = Chi Chi doesn't stop his sons and husband from training
DBS Anime = Chi Chi gets in the way of training.

and gohan ended up doing what she wanted when he grew up...

dude you can't compare different situations... because there is something called context... chichi has always been a shitty character

Gohan didn't get to make any decision, Gohan wasn't even allowed in the same room as Pan.
The one who made the decision was Videl, Bulma (not the parent) and Chi Chi (not the parent).

It was because Videl chose how to raise Pan, that Chi Chi accepted. But Chi Chi didn't accept Gohan decision.

[Tai Lung]

Sorry but that is a bad excuse, Goten and Goku wanted to train together in Whis planet, but Chi Chi got in the way.

Chi Chi knows of Future Gohan and Future Goten death, but still give lame excuse about there not being any bad guys.

because goten does not contribute anything... goku and gohan are stronger than him and they are alive....
that's not an excuse... this shows what chichi would do in a normal situation

Irrelevant you are talking about power. I am talking about skills..

then she contributed almost nothing ... even gohan could have been taught
trunks beat him not having any martial skills
gohan taught him to fly at least ...

Money only allowed Gohan to skip school, that is the only thing money allowed.

with that you prove me right

Training and fighting was allowed even without money.

You have no evidence Chi Chi was against training and fighting before Gohan mention the tournament money, however I have evidence that Goten was training before Gohan mentioned anything about money.

Goten was training when Gohan was studying. Gohan didn't start training until he was blackmailed to join the tournament.

Goten was training with Trunks, while Gohan was studying.

that's not any evidence...
playing with trunks... has always been allowed until now...
goten went to protect the island of android 17 without any problem

The tractor you are right was dangerous.

However racing to see who picks up more vegetables, there was nothing dangerous there. Goten wanted to race against Goku, which Chi Chi forbids.

Chi Chi didn't see any problem forcing Piccolo and Krillin to pick vegetable, who wasn't interested in picking.

to a certain extent yes... but what is meant by chichi sees it as something that is goku's responsibility... "it's his job" and the children is to study... that's what she says
we don't know if goten helped after she left.... which is likely if goten was taking care of island

That is a bad excuse, Goten would get stronger by training. If he isn't allowed to train he will always be weak.

Goten likes to train and Goku is willing to train with Goten. Chi Chi shouldn't interfere.

if the issue is to encourage goku with training ... need someone stronger like gohan ...
goten has trunks who is more than his level

In the Buu Saga his sons are allowed to train and fight, even when no money is involved.
The only thing Chi Chi wouldn't allow is skipping school, if there is no money involved.

DBS Manga = Chi Chi doesn't stop his sons and husband from training
DBS Anime = Chi Chi gets in the way of training.

it is allowed to play with trunks ... and take care of the island of monsters

Gohan didn't get to make any decision, Gohan wasn't even allowed in the same room as Pan.
The one who made the decision was Videl, Bulma (not the parent) and Chi Chi (not the parent).

It was because Videl chose how to raise Pan, that Chi Chi accepted. But Chi Chi didn't accept Gohan decision.

and yet we see pan train with piccolo ...

[Yuli Ban]

Not a novel observation.

I could go on a 100,000 word gender studies dissertation about this topic and why sidelining half the population frustrates me, but to sum it up, patriarchal societies view femininity as weak and passive, and in an action-centric work, that is a recipe for disaster.

Kung fu movies were usually better, but let's not pretend they were excellent either; 90% of fighters in them were male too. And I mean I get why. Males tend to be stronger and more aggressive and thus better suited for action stories. There are loads of taboos about female characters. We don't allow them to get extremely fucked up in battle usually, nor do we tend to allow them to fight male characters (which inevitably leads to Designated Girl Fight, which is its own can of worms). There's this desperate need to keep female characters slim and muscle-less, which even I think is silly to expect in a physical martial arts action story— big muscles are just part of the aesthetic. Toriyama is of the mindset that big muscles on girls = unattractive, therefore shouldn't be done since attractiveness is a girl's best asset.

Remember, a lot of people view "girl" as a character trait in and of itself unfortunately. There's the Big Guy, Dumb Guy, Coward, Womanizer, Adventurer, Renegade, Genius... and then the Girl.

It's just so complicated to discuss, and I love discussing it.


I also love making my OCs discuss it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApU_lRacXaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OePcQHR6uUU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4q2D_kkQJc

[Yuli Ban]

I also love making my OCs discuss it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApU_lRacXaE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OePcQHR6uUU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4q2D_kkQJc

Oi, heads up comrades: I use AI for voices, so if you're ethically opposed to the use of AI for any reason, I'm giving you this disclaimer to miss my videos

Also, my characters' views are definitely not necessarily my own. But I've been trying to scratch a gender politics itch lately, getting to a core reason for my own madness and why so much pop culture is the way it is