Deep Thoughts: The Fortuneteller Baba Saga

[ABED]

I like tournaments, I can't get enough of them, so even though we get another one for the very next arc, this one is different enough that it doesn't feel repetitive. Starting with Tao Pai Pai and until the Freeza fight, Toriyama will be firing on all cylinders. The comedy is landing, the acting is great, and the drama is emotionally compelling. He switches gears so effortlessly. Like many, I started with DBZ, so seeing Fortuneteller Baba as ethically dubious is a twist I didn't see coming. I think most stories would've tried to walk it back by having it revealed at the end that no one was ever in any real danger, she just likes the reputation, but unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, facing her fighters comes with the legitimate risk of death. In spite of that, Baba is side character I enjoy. I know there are issues regarding Baba being voiced by a man, but I'm gonna step around that landmine and say that it works in this case. All of her fighters are interesting and amusing in their own right. They are mostly one note, but they stay for an episode or so, and don't overstay their welcome. I think we're all in agreement though that the final fighter being revealed to be Son Gohan was one of the greatest moments in Dragon Ball. Those episodes are perfect. The fight is thrilling and the reunion is beautiful. It's just the right amount of emotion from a story that doesn't usually do that sort of thing. The first time I read it, I didn't see it coming. Even two decades later, I still get choked up. Part of what makes it so powerful is everyone's reactions, not just from Goku and Gohan, but Goku's friends as well. Often it's the reactions of other characters that make something sink in, and not just the thing itself. For example, in The Two Towers, the size of Sauruman's army is frightening, but it's Wormtongue's shock that drives the point home that this is massive and scary.

After Gohan returns to the afterlife, we get another appearance by Pilaf and the gang, which is always fun. Then Upa is reunited with his father. It's a shame Upa doesn't come back much. That could've been interesting. And finally, to close out the Saga, we get a stretch of filler episodes. Some are good, like the one where Goku nearly craps himself while fighting after a kid slipped him a laxative, and some are so-so like when he saves the damsel from the underground demons. What's interesting was the one where Tenshinhan and Chaozu are introduced before their canon introduction is interesting as it gives us a backstory of the Turtle and Crane Hermit through Inoshi Kacho , who was their pet. It adds an interesting layer to their rivalry.

Random Thoughts:
It's a rule that seeing Goku in anything other than his gi is adorbs.
Call me dense, but if I'm correct, the statues of the two demons in the "Demon's Toilet" are sitting on toilets.
I know there's the question of consent, but Kuririn's plan to have Bulma flash Muten Roshi causing his nose to bleed and cover Suke (is this a pun?), The Invisible Man, is very funny to me.
Goku's tail being ripped off is like someone pulling off your leg.

Dub:
At the risk of sounding rude, Linda Young is a good fit for old crone characters. Between this and Genkai on Yu Yu Hakusho, I don't find her to be a great actress, but in those roles, she's suitable.

Home Video:
Why was Kinkaku (Terror) on the cover art? He's front, though not the center. He's a featured character on the cover despite being in one single episode. Why not Gohan with the mask?
I'd love to know who makes decisions about home video box art. If anyone has any insight into how these decisions are made, I'd love to read it.

Mystical Adventure
I don't have much to say that I haven't said before. This is my favorite of the retellings. It's short, to the point, and combines a bunch of different elements from many of the arcs up to this point and does it pretty well.
I think this was the first thing from the in-house dub that I ever owned, and it was what I wished the Z dub had been. I don't recall any big issues with the movie's script, and it had the original score. I know, I have low standards.

69. Roshi suggests going to Fortuneteller Baba for help; Goku, Yamcha and Kuririn leave; pick up Upa; arrive at Baba's palace; Baba makes them a challenge
70. Goku and Co. accept Baba's challenge; Dracula Man beats Kuririn; Puar and Upa team up; defeat Dracula Man; Suke the Invisible Man beats up Yamcha
71. Kuririn has Goku retrieve Muten Roshi and Bulma; Roshi's nosebleed covers Suke; Yamcha wins via submission; everyone moves to the Demons' Toilet
72. Baba summons Mummy; Mummy beats up Yamcha with his superior strength and speed; Yamcha refuses to give up but loses; Goku and Mummy face off
73. Goku battles Mummy; Mummy traps him in his bandages; Goku gets free and defeats Mummy with one punch to the stomach; dodges Devil Man's attacks
74. Devil Man's Devil Might Beam doesn't affect Goku; Goku defeats him; everyone moves to the outside ring; Goku and the fifth fighter begin their fight
75. Goku and the fifth fighter battle evenly; the fifth fighter grabs Goku's tail; Roshi figures out that the fifth fighter is Son Gohan; Gohan slams Goku around
76. Goku's tail breaks off; Gohan gives up then removes his mask; embraces his grandson; Baba reveals the location of the seventh Dragon Ball is in Pilaf's car
77. Pilaf, Mai and Shuu fight Goku in the Pilaf Machines; burn off Goku's pants; Goku defeats Pilaf; takes Shuu's clothes and leaves with the Dragon Ball
78. Goku picks up Upa; he and Upa return to Karin Tower; Shen Long resurrects Bora; Goku begins running around the world to train for the 22nd Tournament
79. Goku saves Chao; Kinkaku and Ginkaku bully her village; trap Goku in their magical gourd; Goku escapes and defeats them; turns the gourd on them
80. Goku meets Chin Taiken and Hyoga Ten Long; gets Chin's heart medicine; defeats Ten Long at the Imperial Match; Chin and Ten Long settle their dispute
81. Goku agrees to help a group of villagers rescue a princess; enters the Demon World; defeats Shura and rescues Princess Misa; shuts the Demon Gate
82. Goku encounters Inoshi Kacho, Tenshinhan and Chaozu; uncovers their scam; saves Inoshi Kacho and befriends him; trains with him and then leaves
83. Goku befriends Konkichi; Roshi and Co. leave for the Tenkaichi Budokai on Papaya Island; Goku helps out Konkichi; starts swimming for Papaya Island

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Agreed about Linda Young, she definitely fit Baba and old Genkai much better voice wise as compared to how miscast and unfitting she was as Freeza.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I know there are issues regarding Baba being voiced by a man, but I'm gonna step around that landmine and say that it works in this case.

It's ironic Baba is played by a woman who was cast as an unfitting male in the Funimation dub (Freeza), and in the Japanese version a man was cast as her (Junpei Takiguchi). Suffice to say Linda Young was fine as Baba, as well as Genkai in Yu Yu Hakusho.

Speaking of dubs, in episode 71 both the Blue Water and Funimation dubs reportedly cut some frames when Kuririn (Krillin) runs up behind Bulma and her boobs are exposed, although the former (I watched it when it aired here in Ireland nearly 19 years ago, but have not seen it in full since) was more uncut when it aired on TV as Master Roshi nosebleeding over the Invisible Man was left as-is. Funnily enough, the reported title (The Deadly and Bloody Battle! rather than Bloody Battle) is more uncut. The latter also reportedly had the whole tomato soup incident. Sadly the TV edit of both dubs is still missing so neither can be seen for future generation's reference. The existing Blue Water rip is only the second half of the episode and is very low quality, but hopefully someone will share a full copy at some point.

Interestingly there are some similarities between the two English dubs around this point, likely because the Funimation dub aired in the US in late 2002 when Blue Water Dragon Ball was probably going into pre-production and Ocean, due to their existing business relationship with Funimation had access to their scripts. For those interested neither dub retains Devil Man's references to Hell or acknowledge Kinkaku and Ginkaku being brothers, and both say the liquid in the gourd was a potion that gave the brothers power rather than merely something they enjoyed drinking.

Something I'd love to know if any French fans are reading is whether or not the Blue Travellers scene was cut when episode 78 aired on TV? The Blue Water dub, which uses the French video tracks cut it, although it's possible too Ocean did this themselves, as I've heard from a source they still have the stems of the original pre-edited recordings are still in their vault.

There was an error in episode 75 when the Blue Water dub makes the claim Gohan and Goku are "flesh and blood", which contradicts the line in episode 1 where its said the former found the latter in the woods. Though to Blue Water's credit it does retain the compliments Gohan gives Goku for avoiding his Kamehameha, which was switched to inner monologue in the Funimation dub.

The episodes themselves are great, especially for those that love classic horror, although arguably Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle does it better and in less time.

[MasenkoHA]

Fortune Teller Baba is one of those characters who feels like they just randomly shows up from time to time if you only watched or saw Dragon Ball Z first. The importance of starting at the beginning of the story and not a third of the way through. I can't even remember if Dragon Ball Z even acknowledged her relationship to Roshi. Since its something viewers would just know if they watched Dragon Ball.

For the dub I have to give Stephanie Nadolny some credit. I find her emotional acting to be pretty wretched (she'll completely ruin Goku's reaction to Krillin's death in the Daimao arc) but she did a pretty solid job with the Grandpa Gohan reunion. Nozawa always kills so no surprise there.

The World Training filler is probably my favorite block of filler episodes in the original Dragon Ball. It was nice seeing Goku interact with different characters and I agree Goku looks adorable in Shuu's ninja costume.

One amusing thing is we see Goku meet two different Kingdoms but later Toriyama will establish that the entire world is ruled under one King. Oops Toei! I wonder if Funimation'a infamous screw up of Piano statingt the earth had a different King under each sector came from them remembering we already met other rulers.

[MasenkoHA]

Fortune Teller Baba is one of those characters who feels like they just randomly shows up from time to time if you only watched or saw Dragon Ball Z first. The importance of starting at the beginning of the story and not a third of the way through. I can't even remember if Dragon Ball Z even acknowledged her relationship to Roshi. Since its something viewers would just know if they watched Dragon Ball.

For the dub I have to give Stephanie Nadolny some credit. I find her emotional acting to be pretty wretched (she'll completely ruin Goku's reaction to Krillin's death in the Daimao arc) but she did a pretty solid job with the Grandpa Gohan reunion. Nozawa always kills so no surprise there.

The World Training filler is probably my favorite block of filler episodes in the original Dragon Ball. It was nice seeing Goku interact with different characters and I agree Goku looks adorable in Shuu's ninja costume.

One amusing thing is we see Goku meet two different Kingdoms but later Toriyama will establish that the entire world is ruled under one King. Oops Toei! I wonder if Funimation'a infamous screw up of Piano statingt the earth had a different King under each sector came from them remembering we already met other rulers.

[Koitsukai]

I love this mini arc, great way to give closure to the RRA arc. Goku and the gang had to work harder to get the last DB than to defeat the RRA Of all the ways Toriyama could've come up with to gather the DBs, this one was genius.

The fighters are fantastic, the vampire, the invisible man, it's funny how they defeat them too. IIRC, one of the gang leaves, the fight is paused, and they return with Roshi to do that nosebleed gag.
Slowly the fights become more serious, less of a joke, the Devilman is great too. Being able to destroy your hatred-filled heart... and having to face pure-hearted Goku, that's bad luck for the devil.

Is his encounter with Son Gohan the first tear-jerking moment in DB history? Bora dying was bad, too, but it wasn't built up like Goku's relationship with his grampa. There aren't many moments like this in DB, Krilin dying, Piccolo dying, Krilin dying again.. and that's it, I think. And the last one isn't as emotional as the others.
Also, is this arc the last one where we get to see Kid Goku's tushy?

DBS later on had Goku doing the movements of this fight while waiting for Baba and Freeza.

I disagree about Tenshinhan showing up before his manga introduction, even though I love the fillers between the arcs, where Goku goes around the world. That weird lying fox I think takes place between this mini arc and the Tenkaichi Budokai.

[8000 Saiyan]

I always liked Junpei Takiguchi's performance as Baba. It reminds me of Ed Asner's Granny Goodness.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I always liked Junpei Takiguchi's performance as Baba. It reminds me of Ed Asner's Granny Goodness.

Agreed, i like Takiguchi's much more than Mayumi Tanaka's. Her Baba literally was and always has been just her Yajirobe voice and even though the character has only made sporadic appearances with Tanaka in the role it's still a performance i just can't stand even now.

[ABED]

I always liked Junpei Takiguchi's performance as Baba. It reminds me of Ed Asner's Granny Goodness.

Agreed, i like Takiguchi's much more than Mayumi Tanaka's. Her Baba literally was and always has been just her Yajirobe voice and even though the character has only made sporadic appearances with Tanaka in the role it's still a performance i just can't stand even now.

It's not the same voice. Clearly, it's the same actor but it's a different performance.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I always liked Junpei Takiguchi's performance as Baba. It reminds me of Ed Asner's Granny Goodness.

Agreed, i like Takiguchi's much more than Mayumi Tanaka's. Her Baba literally was and always has been just her Yajirobe voice and even though the character has only made sporadic appearances with Tanaka in the role it's still a performance i just can't stand even now.

It's not the same voice. Clearly, it's the same actor but it's a different performance.

Oh, well then i guess i must've not been listening closely enough and didn't pick up on the difference. For some reason whenever i hear her Baba it just sounds the same as Yajirobe to me. It must be because i'm so used to hearing her as Kuririn/Yajirobe due to those two showing up in the story more than Baba and given Tanaka voiced them all in Z at different points they blend together in my mind.

[Vhanos]

The musical scores from Dragon Ball movie 1: Curse of the Blood Rubies started to be played more when the fortuneteller baba saga began. Before that, the BGMs from DB movie 1 were used, but they were played infrequently.

[SavageDragon]

I just watched this arc for the first time recently, great stuff! My first time watching the original Dragon Ball. My goodness it rules.

And the soundtrack is insanely good for sure, Kikuchi's stuff is incredible.