About how characters train in DBS

[90sDBZ]

I have to agree with the OP. Training has become superficial in Super. Anyone can become as strong as they need to be at the drop of a hat.

There were moments in DB/Z were characters got cheap powerups, but it was more the exception than the rule. You had stuff like Goku nearly killing himself on the way to Namek to get stronger, and Vegeta doing the same throughout the series. The Cell arc had them locking themselves away in a room for a year under hellish conditions that pushed them to the physical and mental limit.

There used to be this sense that a villain would be untouchable unless extreme measures were taken to get stronger. Goku avoided fights with Cell and Buuhan, because he knew they were so far beyond him that instant death was guaranteed.

Gohan always had rage boosts, but they were at least explained by him being a half breed saiyan. In Super multiple characters who never had that ability before now have it. Future Trunks starts out helpless against Black, but is able to hold his own against Merged Zamasu with no additional training. If he always had it in him, then why did it never happen against the Androids during all the years he spent fighting them?

Frieza never training in his life before also feels flimsy. Throughout the series it's mentioned how Goku grows stronger while fighting strong opponents. If Frieza really had so much more potential then he should have surpassed Goku during their fight on Namek.

[ABED]

You had stuff like Goku nearly killing himself on the way to Namek to get stronger, and Vegeta doing the same throughout the series. The Cell arc had them locking themselves away in a room for a year under hellish conditions that pushed them to the physical and mental limit.

But when you think about the size of the gains in the time they did and how exponentially higher they became as the series progressed, no amount of "he trained under difficult conditions" explains the size of the jumps besides the plot demanding it.

they were at least explained by him being a half breed saiyan.

In some stories that would be cause for the power being dilluted. He's only HALF Saiyan. Why does mixing the blood of a warrior race with one that's far weaker make for a stronger potential warrior? Because the plot needed Gohan to be stronger.

If he always had it in him, then why did it never happen against the Androids during all the years he spent fighting them?

And Goku didn't turn Super Saiyan when he found Kuririn dead the first time. His rage was just as great.

[WittyUsername]

Even the original manga often got lazy with the power-ups, especially during the Freeza arc. The entire idea that a Saiyan’s power increases after recovering from fatal injuries was just a convenient way of having the characters get stronger so they could keep up with the villains. It’s especially egregious with Goku, because after the fight with Ginyu, he suddenly becomes strong enough to hold his own against Freeza in his true form, without even using the Kaioken.

[MasenkoHA]

Even the original manga often got lazy with the power-ups, especially during the Freeza arc. The entire idea that a Saiyan’s power increases after recovering from fatal injuries was just a convenient way of having the characters get stronger so they could keep up with the villains. It’s especially egregious with Goku, because after the fight with Ginyu, he suddenly becomes strong enough to hold his own against Freeza in his true form, without even using the Kaioken.

Unless I'm forgetting we never got a proper idea of how powerful Goku actually was when he fought Ginyu, I wouldn't call it a big leap that another power up got him to where he could, barely, keep up with Freeza in his final form.


Although yes that whole thing was obviously a narrative shortcut so Vegeta and Goku could fly through significantly stronger opponents in the Freeza arc

[WittyUsername]

Even the original manga often got lazy with the power-ups, especially during the Freeza arc. The entire idea that a Saiyan’s power increases after recovering from fatal injuries was just a convenient way of having the characters get stronger so they could keep up with the villains. It’s especially egregious with Goku, because after the fight with Ginyu, he suddenly becomes strong enough to hold his own against Freeza in his true form, without even using the Kaioken.

Unless I'm forgetting we never got a proper idea of how powerful Goku actually was when he fought Ginyu, I wouldn't call it a big leap that another power up got him to where he could, barely, keep up with Freeza in his final form.


Although yes that whole thing was obviously a narrative shortcut so Vegeta and Goku could fly through significantly stronger opponents in the Freeza arc

We know that Goku’s power level with the Kaioken was 180,000, which is only a third as strong as Freeza in his weakest form. Even disregarding what the Daizenshuu said, Goku’s power had to have jumped up quite a bit after a single near-death recovery.

[BWri]

Even the original manga often got lazy with the power-ups, especially during the Freeza arc. The entire idea that a Saiyan’s power increases after recovering from fatal injuries was just a convenient way of having the characters get stronger so they could keep up with the villains. It’s especially egregious with Goku, because after the fight with Ginyu, he suddenly becomes strong enough to hold his own against Freeza in his true form, without even using the Kaioken.

Unless I'm forgetting we never got a proper idea of how powerful Goku actually was when he fought Ginyu, I wouldn't call it a big leap that another power up got him to where he could, barely, keep up with Freeza in his final form.

His base power was close to Ginyu, so much that he says he couldn't break his hold without Kaioken. Most guides and fan-levels clock his base form at 90,000. Ginyu had him at 85,000. Going from that to base 3,000,000 in one zenkai is a pretty big leap.