Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

Filler isn't inherently bad, it's just bad filler that's bad. The Fake Namek episodes were drivel, but the Heavenly Tournament episodes were enjoyable.

Sure, but bad canon episodes are bad. I agree about the Heavenly Tournament episodes. They're a lot of fun.

[JulieYBM]

I love filler, especially when it compliments the upcoming comic story or changes the comic story. I absolutely think that the Saiyan arc should have depicted Gohan's mid-battle fear against the Saibaimen and Nappa in a way that reflected the growth that we saw during the training filler.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think that would have gone beyond filler and into outright Sailor Mooning (Aka just making stuff up for the anime to the point its almost not an adaptation anymore for better or worse) and I think you are expecting both too much and too little of a 5 year old, I think the development he gets in the Z filler does "show" in the fight against the Saiyans in that the baby Gohan started out as would have never even DREAMED of facing the Saiyans the way he did (expecting too little) and its only natural that he would STILL be scared out of his wits even with his training (expecting too much) so I think the Z filler doing its best to elevate the manga material and not only blend in successfully but also even improve the experience (Gohan's character in the manga is really dry) is the best thing they could have done.

[Civic]

Filler isn't inherently bad, it's just bad filler that's bad. The Fake Namek episodes were drivel, but the Heavenly Tournament episodes were enjoyable.

Absolutely. The Fake Namek/Frieza vs Goku filler eps are so painful (I have trouble watching the Frieza fight even in Kai, it still drags too long) but things like the Other World Tournament, Gohan's training in the wilds and even the week (10 days?) break that Goku and Gohan take before the Cell Games are enjoyable and really add to the franchise IMO.

[Cure Dragon 255]

BTW I have never EVER gotten the "it takes too long" filler complaints. In fact, other than some really blatant examples I have never EVER had any sort of sympathy for the "Its too slow or fast" crowd that ALWAYS show up in faithful adaptations of manga that dont just make stuff up like the 90's Sailor Moon. They will literally whine until the cows come home about how x manga is ruined forever because its anime is too slow or fast. And the sort of manga adaptations they champion as "perfectly paced" are awful to me. The only reason I stopped with my jokes and derisive comments about My Hero Academia needing to take some goddamn ritalin is because 1- Its an ableist joke (I actually took Ritalin so I thought it was right to make but its still cruel) 2- I have also lost all sympathy for the Too fast crowd as well.

[Civic]

BTW I have never EVER gotten the "it takes too long" filler complaints.

It depends. For the Frieza fight, especially the original Z run, there are a lot of episodes where the plot doesn't move at all, or it's filled with long stills of Goku and Frieza staring at each other where not a lot goes on. Goku charging the Spirit Bomb, for example - it takes 5+ episodes for him to get it ready, all the while nothing really happens. Filler like the arcs I mentioned earlier are good because they add more to the story and the universe and flesh it out more - these episodes are just stalling for time.

That's my take on it. YMMV.

[ABED]

I think people exaggerate the issue with the filler in the Freeza / Goku fight. It's not the staring that's the issue. The problem is mostly the constant cutaways to whatever the hell Bulma or Chichi are up to.

Overall I don't like the Fake Namek arc, but I do enjoy the scene where Gohan goes into the acid swamp. It's a stand out scene.

[Scsigs]

Personally, as long as filler is entertaining, I have no problems with it. I find most of the Super anime's "filler" mini-arcs between the main ones to be perfectly fine. I also prefer if filler episodes are 100% skippable if they're in the middle of a bigger arc so you don't miss anything by skipping them if you choose to do so. Bleach, for example, if you look up a guide, you can literally just skip over huge chunks of episodes where the writers & animators introduced filler episodes. It helps when the filler episodes are really bad, so they're not worth watching.
Z's filler gets really tedious, though. When it's extra scenes not from the manga put in for the purposes of padding out the story, it can get really boring. When it's episodes where the production crew didn't have to worry about interrupting an ongoing storyline, those are fine. This is why I prefer to watch Kai. Z was largely a shot-for-shot adaptation of the manga to screen, so cutting most of the filler like they did wasn't that bad. The Final Chapters, since I have seen the entire Buu Saga from the original Z before, I was kinda shocked at how much they were able to cut out from the "Inside Buu's body" filler when they. got to it, but they did & I was happy. I hated that filler. It was just too childish. The filler of Buu going around celebrating having absorbed Vegetto too. Cutting it, you lost absolutely nothing.

[WittyUsername]

I think people exaggerate the issue with the filler in the Freeza / Goku fight. It's not the staring that's the issue. The problem is mostly the constant cutaways to whatever the hell Bulma or Chichi are up to.

Overall I don't like the Fake Namek arc, but I do enjoy the scene where Gohan goes into the acid swamp. It's a stand out scene.

Nah. The fight goes on for far too long, and it doesn’t help that the episodes aren’t very well animated. It was a huge relief when it finally ended.

[Jord]

Filler isn't bad as long as it progresses our understanding of the characters. A lot of filler doesn't do this. It just slows down or repeats previous beats.

[ABED]

Filler isn't bad as long as it progresses our understanding of the characters. A lot of filler doesn't do this. It just slows down or repeats previous beats.

It doesn't even have to do that. It just needs to be enjoyable.

I think people exaggerate the issue with the filler in the Freeza / Goku fight. It's not the staring that's the issue. The problem is mostly the constant cutaways to whatever the hell Bulma or Chichi are up to.

Overall I don't like the Fake Namek arc, but I do enjoy the scene where Gohan goes into the acid swamp. It's a stand out scene.

Nah. The fight goes on for far too long, and it doesn’t help that the episodes aren’t very well animated. It was a huge relief when it finally ended.

It does go on too long, but that's not primarily a filler issue. It's too long even in the manga.

[jjgp1112]

Toei was much better at handling Filler during the first series and even in the Saiyan saga, too. But I think the nature of the Namek/Frieza saga made it hard to organically integrate worthwhile stuff.

[Majin Buu]

Z's filler gets really tedious, though. When it's extra scenes not from the manga put in for the purposes of padding out the story, it can get really boring. When it's episodes where the production crew didn't have to worry about interrupting an ongoing storyline, those are fine. This is why I prefer to watch Kai. Z was largely a shot-for-shot adaptation of the manga to screen, so cutting most of the filler like they did wasn't that bad. The Final Chapters, since I have seen the entire Buu Saga from the original Z before, I was kinda shocked at how much they were able to cut out from the "Inside Buu's body" filler when they. got to it, but they did & I was happy. I hated that filler. It was just too childish. The filler of Buu going around celebrating having absorbed Vegetto too. Cutting it, you lost absolutely nothing.

As someone who thinks the anime version of the Buu arc was an improvement from the manga, I have to disagree.

IMO, the Buu arc's filler fleshed out ideas that felt under-utilized in the manga. For me, the inside Buu filler expanded on an interesting idea that Toriyama himself didn't do much with, giving us a fun little adventure that breaks up the long stretch of fighting we just finished and feels like a throwback to the kind of adventures we got in pre-Z era Dragon Ball- in line with the Buu arc's overall tone.

I get the sentiment though. When I first saw these episodes in high school, I was waiting for Kid Buu to show up and so I just wanted to get past them; but now that I'm older, I appreciate them for the nice change of pace that they are and what they bring to the arc in terms of creativity- fluffy as they ultimately are.

Plus I love the scenes of Buu destroying things in celebration. Buu's defining characteristic is his silliness and this Freeza/Cell-esqe version of him had little of that in the manga. These scenes establish that even this version of Buu is still a fundamentally silly character underneath all that typical-Dragon Ball-villain bluster.

And this doesn't even get into how the anime fleshed out the Great Saiyaman part of the story in a way that improved the narrative, specifically giving Gohan and Videl's friendship enough set up to feel more naturally developed than it did in the manga.

One of the reasons I've never bothered to watch Kai is because I love how the original anime (at its best) fleshed out Toriyama's story in a way that made the world feel bigger and the story feel more full; and that's lost when you re-edit the anime to be more like the manga. All three of my favorite arcs (The Piccolo arc, The Saiyan arc, and the Buu arc) are better in the anime than they are in the manga for me.

[jjgp1112]

Z's filler gets really tedious, though. When it's extra scenes not from the manga put in for the purposes of padding out the story, it can get really boring. When it's episodes where the production crew didn't have to worry about interrupting an ongoing storyline, those are fine. This is why I prefer to watch Kai. Z was largely a shot-for-shot adaptation of the manga to screen, so cutting most of the filler like they did wasn't that bad. The Final Chapters, since I have seen the entire Buu Saga from the original Z before, I was kinda shocked at how much they were able to cut out from the "Inside Buu's body" filler when they. got to it, but they did & I was happy. I hated that filler. It was just too childish. The filler of Buu going around celebrating having absorbed Vegetto too. Cutting it, you lost absolutely nothing.

As someone who thinks the anime version of the Buu arc was an improvement from the manga, I have to disagree.

IMO, the Buu arc's filler fleshed out ideas that felt under-utilized in the manga. For me, the inside Buu filler expanded on an interesting idea that Toriyama himself didn't do much with, giving us a fun little adventure that breaks up the long stretch of fighting we just finished and feels like a throwback to the kind of adventures we got in pre-Z era Dragon Ball- in line with the Buu arc's overall tone.

I get the sentiment though. When I first saw these episodes in high school, I was waiting for Kid Buu to show up and so I just wanted to get past them; but now that I'm older, I appreciate them for the nice change of pace that they are and what they bring to the arc in terms of creativity- fluffy as they ultimately are.

Plus I love the scenes of Buu destroying things in celebration. Buu's defining characteristic is his silliness and this Freeza/Cell-esqe version of him had little of that in the manga. These scenes establish that even this version of Buu is still a fundamentally silly character underneath all that typical-Dragon Ball-villain bluster.

And this doesn't even get into how the anime fleshed out the Great Saiyaman part of the story in a way that improved the narrative, specifically giving Gohan and Videl's friendship enough set up to feel more naturally developed than it did in the manga.

One of the reasons I've never bothered to watch Kai is because I love how the original anime (at its best) fleshed out Toriyama's story in a way that made the world feel bigger and the story feel more full; and that's lost when you re-edit the anime to be more like the manga. All three of my favorite arcs (The Piccolo arc, The Saiyan arc, and the Buu arc) are better in the anime than they are in the manga for me.

The Buu Kai that's on Home Video actually does retain a fair bit of filler, especially for the Saiyaman stuff since that's damn near impossible to edit around due to how Toei integrated it into the canon.

[Scsigs]

The Buu Kai that's on Home Video actually does retain a fair bit of filler, especially for the Saiyaman stuff since that's damn near impossible to edit around due to how Toei integrated it into the canon.

Well, they kept in what Saiyaman filler wasn't able to be cut, which involved Gohan saving the dinosaur. They still cut most of it. It's fine. I just wish they hadn't kept the few scenes of the villains in Hell watching Gohan & Kid Buu's fight since it's stupid to keep in because they not only cut the earlier fillers that established Hell, but Resurrection F established how Hell really is in DB. I feel even with the other fillers they kept in, Kai: TFC is still better-paced than the original Z's version of the arc. The dub also helps since it's better-acted (as well as translated) & Goku isn't throwing out "Oh my gosh"-es all the time.

And, with the previous person who said that they like the filler because it expands upon the world or ideas present in the manga, you're correct. However, the filler in the Buu Saga, when it interrupts the plot to stop it dead in its tracks, gets unbearable to me. Same with a lot of the filler in the Namek & Android arcs. I'm all for world expansion or expanding on ideas, but I don't think the Buu Saga's filler is that done well, tbh. Especially when it delves into the very childish humor that I'd thought the series had largely moved on from, like Buu getting indigestion & creating a port-a-potty to use it. I was glad that that kind of filler was removed for Kai. They still removed over 20 episodes worth of filler (plus the scene of that dude who shoots Bee killing an old couple that was from the manga), so that's still good.

[jjgp1112]

The Buu Kai that's on Home Video actually does retain a fair bit of filler, especially for the Saiyaman stuff since that's damn near impossible to edit around due to how Toei integrated it into the canon.

Well, they kept in what Saiyaman filler wasn't able to be cut, which involved Gohan saving the dinosaur. They still cut most of it. It's fine. I just wish they hadn't kept the few scenes of the villains in Hell watching Gohan & Kid Buu's fight since it's stupid to keep in because they not only cut the earlier fillers that established Hell, but Resurrection F established how Hell really is in DB. I feel even with the other fillers they kept in, Kai: TFC is still better-paced than the original Z's version of the arc. The dub also helps since it's better-acted (as well as translated) & Goku isn't throwing out "Oh my gosh"-es all the time.

And, with the previous person who said that they like the filler because it expands upon the world or ideas present in the manga, you're correct. However, the filler in the Buu Saga, when it interrupts the plot to stop it dead in its tracks, gets unbearable to me. Same with a lot of the filler in the Namek & Android arcs. I'm all for world expansion or expanding on ideas, but I don't think the Buu Saga's filler is that done well, tbh. Especially when it delves into the very childish humor that I'd thought the series had largely moved on from, like Buu getting indigestion & creating a port-a-potty to use it. I was glad that that kind of filler was removed for Kai. They still removed over 20 episodes worth of filler (plus the scene of that dude who shoots Bee killing an old couple that was from the manga), so that's still good.

I'd actually argue there are spots in Kai where the original script was superior, mainly the parts where the OG dub was already accurate. It's like they were so weary of recycling the original scripts that they went with alternatives that were accurate but kind of awkward. Majin Vegeta's dialogue really suffers from this.

[MasenkoHA]

The Buu Kai that's on Home Video actually does retain a fair bit of filler, especially for the Saiyaman stuff since that's damn near impossible to edit around due to how Toei integrated it into the canon.

Well, they kept in what Saiyaman filler wasn't able to be cut, which involved Gohan saving the dinosaur. They still cut most of it. It's fine. I just wish they hadn't kept the few scenes of the villains in Hell watching Gohan & Kid Buu's fight since it's stupid to keep in because they not only cut the earlier fillers that established Hell, but Resurrection F established how Hell really is in DB. I feel even with the other fillers they kept in, Kai: TFC is still better-paced than the original Z's version of the arc. The dub also helps since it's better-acted (as well as translated) & Goku isn't throwing out "Oh my gosh"-es all the time.

And, with the previous person who said that they like the filler because it expands upon the world or ideas present in the manga, you're correct. However, the filler in the Buu Saga, when it interrupts the plot to stop it dead in its tracks, gets unbearable to me. Same with a lot of the filler in the Namek & Android arcs. I'm all for world expansion or expanding on ideas, but I don't think the Buu Saga's filler is that done well, tbh. Especially when it delves into the very childish humor that I'd thought the series had largely moved on from, like Buu getting indigestion & creating a port-a-potty to use it. I was glad that that kind of filler was removed for Kai. They still removed over 20 episodes worth of filler (plus the scene of that dude who shoots Bee killing an old couple that was from the manga), so that's still good.

I'd actually argue there are spots in Kai where the original script was superior, mainly the parts where the OG dub was already accurate.

And occasionally the Kai script would actually be less accurate.

Like when Mr.Satan assumes Gohan was a water boy. In the Z dub he assumes he's a delivery boy which is a hell of a lot closer to the Japanese version where he assumed Gohan is a bento salesboy.

[Scsigs]

I'd actually argue there are spots in Kai where the original script was superior, mainly the parts where the OG dub was already accurate. It's like they were so weary of recycling the original scripts that they went with alternatives that were accurate but kind of awkward. Majin Vegeta's dialogue really suffers from this.

I can see this. Though I think that the scripts are mostly fine, some of the choices for them definitely feel like they were trying to avoid repeating dialogue choices they'd already made in Z that were already fine. 1 example from TFC I remember is Mr. Satan threatening Bee by saying he'll turn him into a hotdog. Z's dub got it right, but Kai's didn't for no reason, even though the subtitles for the JP audio did. It's so dumb.

[Majin Buu]

And, with the previous person who said that they like the filler because it expands upon the world or ideas present in the manga, you're correct. However, the filler in the Buu Saga, when it interrupts the plot to stop it dead in its tracks, gets unbearable to me. Same with a lot of the filler in the Namek & Android arcs.

I don't mind that as long as it feels like the filler is adding something. The issue with a lot of the Namek filler is that it doesn't expand on the world or improve the narrative in any way, so that stuff is just wasting time. A lot of the Buu arc's filler isn't that IMO.

Especially when it delves into the very childish humor that I'd thought the series had largely moved on from, like Buu getting indigestion & creating a port-a-potty to use it.

Stuff like that is in line with the Buu arc's more humorous, pre-Zesqe tone and the character's silliness as a whole; so it sounds more like you have an issue with the Buu arc's general tone than its filler.

[Scsigs]

Stuff like that is in line with the Buu arc's more humorous, pre-Zesqe tone and the character's silliness as a whole; so it sounds more like you have an issue with the Buu arc's general tone than its filler.

It's both. The arc's tone after the Saiyaman stuff is incredibly inconsistent & flip-flops back & forth on if it wants to be humorous or serious at sporadic intervals. Not to mention all of the contrivances to keep the plot going after a while & the fact that the arc just keeps going because Toriyama didn't know where to end it. The filler in the anime didn't help with that.