Is Post EoZ Content "Forbidden" Because of GT &/or EoZ serving as Toriyama's official epilogue?

[PrinceVegetto]

Genuinely curious as to why the franchise seems to be doing everything possible to remain in the 10 year time period between the end of the Buu arc & EoZ...is it because they don't want to take any chance of merging the timeline of Super & GT?

Granted, there's a 5 year time skip between EoZ and the start of GT but could it also be that EoZ is the definitive epilogue Toriyama wants people to adhere to and Super needs to be forever stuck in this time period?

Where do you predict the franchise goes after the Super Hero retelling is done in the manga?
Will Super end after the new characters are tied into the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai with Uub?

I think the franchise is in its biggest crossroad in a long time...

I personally would love Super to explore Goku getting out of his student role and becoming a mentor to Uub!

[jjbgood]

Toriyama has already said that he doesn't like stories with characters who have aged, and that's why "Super" takes place in the 10-year gap after Z, because the characters are too old at the end of Z. But now there won't be much room to squeeze in more story, as Super Hero takes place almost immediately before the tournament, so there are only two options for the future: end it or continue after the tournament. I hope for the latter.

[kemuri07]

I've said this before, but I don't think they ever go past EoZ. Mostly because Super technically isn't a "sequel" in the traditional sense: the story still ends with Goku flying away Uub. so it gives them wiggle room to do whatever they want and still preserve Z's "ending." That and GT is clearly still popular enough that it keeps coming up in a variety of related media despite how controversial that series is.

[Koitsukai]

In any case, DBS and GT's timeline are incompatible no matter what happens with DBS or the epilogue. Toriyama's epilogue is the one that matters, I don't know why he'd care about GT or want people to adhere to something he had no involvement on instead of his own. It was already said GT is like an alternate story, so GT is not to blame here.

I guess he has Goku's end set on stone like initially planned, so he's detailing how he got there, adding more stuff instead of being Buu his last main event.

[VegettoEX]

I don't think there's an actual, formalized, set "rule" about it within the comprehensive style guide and editorial direction for the series from the rights-holders and Toriyama himself, but I do think that it absolutely plays a role in everyone's story crafting. It's pretty transparent from an outsider's perspective, that's for sure. It may only be an "out of respect" sort of thing, and perhaps even entirely unspoken, but it's definitely there.

Time travel in the series-proper actually gave them the perfect "out" for this, because they can have all sorts of ancillary events "out of time" that have no impact back on the original serialization story: see things like Xenoverse and all of the Heroes stories. No shock to see them double-down on this over time and use it as an outlet for those kinds of stories.

That said, there HAS BEEN something officially published that takes place AFTER everything... and that's (spoilers, perhaps?) Dragon Ball Heroes: Victory Mission, which turns out to be an actual sequel to Dragon Ball GT. Sure, it's not a "real" story the same way Dragon Ball Super wound up being, but it was something!

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think GT is in Toriyama's mind at all. Doubt he even remembers it exists. I do believe EoZ might still be his official epilogue though: As VegettoEX said, it may not be a formalized thing, but Toyotaro is going to cram stories in this small timespan until Toriyama gives him the go. EoZ is a very definitive ending since it's a passing of the mantle, and Toriyama can't see anyone but Goku in the main role. He probably still feels the cast will be too old as well, that was the reason Battle of Gods was earlier in the timeline too.

[Skar]

I remember Toriyama saying that he gave Vegeta a mustache when he talked about characters being too old after EoZ. He might've gotten mixed up with how he drew Vegeta in the end or maybe the GT cast was how he envisioned them looking a few years after EoZ (aside from Goku being turned into a kid). I'm not sure how much he contributed to DBO but its timeline doesn't have anything happening for Goku and Vegeta between EoZ and their final battle and the next major antagonist is a few hundred years later. A few Z fighters open martial arts school but only threat they face are weak remnants of Freeza's army. It's all consistent with DBS in a way since the last of their adventures happen before EoZ.

[UpFromTheSkies]

It seems to me like they're gearing up to move the story beyond EoZ, and it doesn't have to interfere with GT, they could easily come up with an in universe explanation for GT. For example, they could write a scene where Whis tells Goku that there are many different paths his development could have taken, and then clips of SS4 Goku appear in his staff. Goku asks what he is seeing, and Whis tells him that in an alternate timeline he achieved SS4 instead of SSG. Goku wants to meet his alternate self and spar with him, but Whis says that it's forbidden.

[TheMikado]

I’m still banking on them undoing all of Super completely. It just makes the most sense story wise really.

Like the excitement for Uub doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after the gangs progression and they’re long past the point where power progression is even in-universe believable anymore.

Also the color swaps make me vomit, not only the lack of originality but just the plan ugly color choice and designs. It’s almost parody or at least something I would have drawn up and thought was cool in middle school.

[Issei189]

I’m still banking on them undoing all of Super completely. It just makes the most sense story wise really.

Like the excitement for Uub doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after the gangs progression and they’re long past the point where power progression is even in-universe believable anymore.

Also the color swaps make me vomit, not only the lack of originality but just the plan ugly color choice and designs. It’s almost parody or at least something I would have drawn up and thought was cool in middle school.

It does make sense now. Since you don't know Uub's strength was retconned in the DBS manga during the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga about 2 years ago. He now has half of Dai Kaioshin's God ki power and even half of his God ki power was above standard SSB level from what this arc established.

[Skar]

It seems to me like they're gearing up to move the story beyond EoZ, and it doesn't have to interfere with GT, they could easily come up with an in universe explanation for GT.

I get the feeling it's slowing down. Toriyama's is getting older so that could be why there was a longer break between each film and the manga adapting Super Hero. So far it's almost identical so I assume the only reason is to give Toriyama more time to decide on the next arc.

[Shinsa]

I thought it was widely known that GT is non canon/side story/different timeline?

Also with Super creating a bunch of inconsistencies I was also under the assumption that the EoZ was going to be retconned. DB as a whole is super inconsistent (no pun intended) So I assumed there was always different continuities.

For example
1.Original canon DB/DBZ
2.DB/DBZ/GT
3.DB/DBZ/Super with the assumption that EOZ will be retconned since Super creates inconsistencies.
4....the other timelines from the games that I'm no familiar with.

I don't think Toriyama puts much thought into it so for me I have to contextualize it this way for it to somewhat make sense. They can easily move past Z and "retcon" or say GT is a different continuity to support the direction they are going. It sucks and I don't like the direction Super took the franchise but considering what they set up it would be unwise to be locked down to GT since it wouldn't make sense.

[Trouser]

It's "forbidden" because Toriyama thinks the EoZ characters are too old. That's why events of Super happened during "10 year gap". I find his thinking stupid, but he's the author, so... whatever.

[JulieYBM]

It's "forbidden" because Toriyama thinks the EoZ characters are too old. That's why events of Super happened during "10 year gap". I find his thinking stupid, but he's the author, so... whatever.

His thinking is stupid and just one more example of how weirdly restrictive his approach to storytelling is. It does him no harm just...letting the characters age or hell, even just de-aging the characters with medicine or the Dragon Balls if he really wants them to appear younger.

[coola]

It's "forbidden" because Toriyama thinks the EoZ characters are too old. That's why events of Super happened during "10 year gap". I find his thinking stupid, but he's the author, so... whatever.

His thinking is stupid and just one more example of how weirdly restrictive his approach to storytelling is. It does him no harm just...letting the characters age or hell, even just de-aging the characters with medicine or the Dragon Balls if he really wants them to appear younger.

Or do good old "passing the torch" to newer generation, i wouldn't mind seeing more slice of life Trunks/Goten/Mai or Piccolo/Pan stuff Goku and Vegeta can still appear, just don't make Super Goku a dumbass, it's not funny, it never was funny, it's never gonna be funny!

[Shinsa]

It's "forbidden" because Toriyama thinks the EoZ characters are too old. That's why events of Super happened during "10 year gap". I find his thinking stupid, but he's the author, so... whatever.

His thinking is stupid and just one more example of how weirdly restrictive his approach to storytelling is. It does him no harm just...letting the characters age or hell, even just de-aging the characters with medicine or the Dragon Balls if he really wants them to appear younger.

Or do good old "passing the torch" to newer generation, i wouldn't mind seeing more slice of life Trunks/Goten/Mai or Piccolo/Pan stuff Goku and Vegeta can still appear, just don't make Super Goku a dumbass, it's not funny, it never was funny, it's never gonna be funny!

Completely agree with all of you here. I think the fear with passing on the torch or aging the characters is holding the series back and funny enough makes the Dragonball world seem small. The easy route is the one they took to get a quick audience but even so it still divided people and not given DB a redemption for its cliches people criticize it for. However to be fair to Toriyama, he's old and has done his part so I don't blame him for not putting much thought or energy into the franchise anymore. Toei on the other hand........

[TheMikado]

I thought it was widely known that GT is non canon/side story/different timeline?

Also with Super creating a bunch of inconsistencies I was also under the assumption that the EoZ was going to be retconned. DB as a whole is super inconsistent (no pun intended) So I assumed there was always different continuities.

For example
1.Original canon DB/DBZ
2.DB/DBZ/GT
3.DB/DBZ/Super with the assumption that EOZ will be retconned since Super creates inconsistencies.
4....the other timelines from the games that I'm no familiar with.

I don't think Toriyama puts much thought into it so for me I have to contextualize it this way for it to somewhat make sense. They can easily move past Z and "retcon" or say GT is a different continuity to support the direction they are going. It sucks and I don't like the direction Super took the franchise but considering what they set up it would be unwise to be locked down to GT since it wouldn't make sense.

It would make much more sense to put Super into its own alternative timeline.

Literally ever single character got rehashed to the post just parts of EoZ make little sense.

Super is the odd ball out, not the other content.

[Civic]

Super Hero is only a few years (?) out from EoZ. I dont think it would be difficult to move past it, but I would hope it would continue on from after EoZ immediately instead of a time skip.

[GokuHater]

I am honestly not sure if they will get past EoZ but I am sure they want to avoid it or hold it back as long as possible. It seems to me Toei is just frightened to touch original work, rewrite it, or go past where it would rewrite GT. The producers seem very terrified of the feedback it would give. That's my assumption frankly but I think there is truth to it, as if they wanted to, they would go past a long time ago and produce even better stories thanks to that.

That seems to be a problem with Super for me in general. They are milking status quo for as long as they can because things which fans are accustomed to, which is working at least properly, which is safe, isn't dangerous.
To be more creative would require some risk, changes, fresh air. And as a multi bilion dolar company Toei can't risk to alienate anyone.
I mean only now in manga and the movie the creators decided to age Goten and Trunks, while in the original the status quo was change itself. In Dragon Ball we had characters aging, story changing focus and in "Z portion of the story" we even expected characters will be different each arc, that Gohan will age, that new characters will appear.

Be it Toryiama thinking of new things as he goes, him needing longer limbs, editorial changes... Things kept changing all the time. Super does not have that energy left unfortunately. Every arc seems to be a self contained story stuck in Super limbo and while they aren't bad, they aren't also revolutionary.

Compare it to GT - while everyone is free to see it as a better series or fanfic garbage, it is anything but status quo. They seemed to experiment all the time there.

[PrinceVegetto]

Be it Toryiama thinking of new things as he goes, him needing longer limbs, editorial changes... Things kept changing all the time. Super does not have that energy left unfortunately. Every arc seems to be a self contained story stuck in Super limbo and while they aren't bad, they aren't also revolutionary.

Compare it to GT - while everyone is free to see it as a better series or fanfic garbage, it is anything but status quo. They seemed to experiment all the time there.

What you said lines up with Toriyama's vision for Super, which he recently said is a series that's a "casual continuation" of DB.

GT, on the other hand, is a "grand side-story".

I'm even more convinced now that the end of Super will tie into EoZ and that will be that. Toriyama seems to be perfectly content with how his manga ended.