Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 93 - Official Discussion Thread

[picc]

We really just got a movie recap during a movie recap. Then almost nothing happened the rest of the way.

*sigh*

[The Monkey King]

Probably some of the worst manga fight scene choreography I've ever seen.

Spoiler:

Glad they altered the meditation line to make Goku a bit less stupid, but then of course Toyotarou found new and bold ways for it to be even stupider than it was before as now Broly apparently fights with a "relaxed spirit"

[Lance Freeman]

Can someone wake me up at the end of the year when Frieza Black gets going?

[The gr]

So i guess Goku scolding super saiyan grade 3 isn't a thing anymore god i hate how the manga writes Goku

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

No way we got a retelling within a retelling.

[PurestEvil]

So we now have two film retellings: Brolly film and Super Hero

Not much to say here, I just think it's funny that the manga is adding its own content to the story of the animation now rather than vice versa, which was how the original run of DB went.

[nato25]

Oh so they did release something for Goku Day. Nice.

My prediction: This chapter will be dedicated to exposition on Beerus' planet. We just go back to Earth to see Piccolo and Bulma getting their wishes. Maybe Piccolo going to the RRA too and leaving with the big guy to get Pan.

Wow man nice prediction!

The vegeta character development was enough for me to carry this chapter through all the retelling. I can't remember a time he's actually reflected on his past losses and thought about what can he do differently. I can seldom think of a time he reflected at all on past losses. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[emperior]

This chapter was bad. It’s sad because so far I was really enjoying the adaptation of this arc.

Yet this time around Toyotaro felt the need to:

- Change Broly’s movie making it very confusing what exactly happened there in the manga
- Make Goku still dumb despite “fixing” the meditation line. The movie implied that Jiren had some special skill, and Jiren only, and that made perfect sense. Now it turns out that even Broly had that skill? And Goku seems even more clueless and amateurish than in the movie
- Dende upgrades Shenron off screen for some reason

[Mr Baggins]

People are reading way too much into the Broly recap if they think it's trying to imply events happened differently in the manga. Story beats are depicted the same as in the film; Goku and Vegeta still look like they start out taking turns in the fight. The main difference is in clothing/appearance at points, but this is something that's never been consistent between Toyotaro's own depictions of the movie. He's just drawing the CliffsNotes version.

Where this chapter actually falls short, as was mentioned, is grouping Broly, Moro, Gas and Freeza in with Jiren's relaxed fighting style. The problem isn't only that it makes no sense for certain characters (Broly being the biggest sore thumb here) but mainly that it obfuscates some of Jiren's own uniqueness. I'll assume it's just an awkward oversight from Toyotaro in a misguided attempt to acknowledge continuity.

Otherwise, this continues to be a faithful adaptation of Super Hero with minor differences and additions. Everything I liked and didn't like about the movie is here, although the framing of specific scenes is noticeably inferior. Its biggest fault is that most of it covers a portion of the film I wasn't particularly keen on, and that's no fault of the manga specifically.

My favorite part of this chapter is the Oracle Fish.

[ATA]

Oh so they did release something for Goku Day. Nice.

My prediction: This chapter will be dedicated to exposition on Beerus' planet. We just go back to Earth to see Piccolo and Bulma getting their wishes. Maybe Piccolo going to the RRA too and leaving with the big guy to get Pan.

Wow man nice prediction!

The vegeta character development was enough for me to carry this chapter through all the retelling. I can't remember a time he's actually reflected on his past losses and thought about what can he do differently. I can seldom think of a time he reflected at all on past losses. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It was anime filler(I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) but Vegeta after his fight with 18 did a lot of reflecting and came to same conclusion as Goku about advancing SSJ. Also in both manga and anime Vegeta reflected on his fight with Earthlings and that's how he adapted to Ki Searching and actually started to train for the first time.

[Alkiser]

People are reading way too much into the Broly recap if they think it's trying to imply events happened differently in the manga. Story beats are depicted the same as in the film; Goku and Vegeta still look like they start out taking turns in the fight. The main difference is in clothing/appearance at points, but this is something that's never been consistent between Toyotaro's own depictions of the movie. He's just drawing the CliffsNotes version.

Where this chapter actually falls short, as was mentioned, is grouping Broly, Moro, Gas and Freeza in with Jiren's relaxed fighting style. The problem isn't only that it makes no sense for certain characters (Broly being the biggest sore thumb here) but mainly that it obfuscates some of Jiren's own uniqueness. I'll assume it's just an awkward oversight from Toyotaro in a misguided attempt to acknowledge continuity.

Otherwise, this continues to be a faithful adaptation of Super Hero with minor differences and additions. Everything I liked and didn't like about the movie is here, although the framing of specific scenes is noticeably inferior. Its biggest fault is that most of it covers a portion of the film I wasn't particularly keen on, and that's no fault of the manga specifically.

My favorite part of this chapter is the Oracle Fish.

Nah Jiren in the manga doesn't seem to be anyone special like in the anime, in the manga Jiren wasn't even seen meditating and throughout the manga tournament he fought Goku, Hit and Vegeta. This uniqueness of Jiren exists in the anime because in the manga itself Jiren is not distinguished by anything more than strength.

[Trouser]

I was defending manga's Goku, that he's not that stupid as his anime counterpart, but now... I'm not sure. They have such a hard-on for Goku to be stupid. Even Toriyama is forcing it, because he's the one responsible for that meditation thing in the movie.

[Hugo Boss]

So i guess Goku scolding super saiyan grade 3 isn't a thing anymore god i hate how the manga writes Goku

I could swear Goku said the same thing to Vegeta when he left the Room of Spirit and Time for the first time. Super Saiyan Full Power was basically the result of that principle. Like, it almost seems to be nod to that scene, as if Vegeta is getting his revenge for being scolded.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I wouldn’t call this a “recap inside of recap”. They’re not recapping Super Hero, it’s a full on adaptation/retelling. Recaps tend to be shorter.

Probably some of the worst manga fight scene choreography I've ever seen.

Spoiler:

Why? The scene with the cyclone and Vegeta cutting the tree in half were cool. Thought it seems like Vegeta has an upperhand from the start instead of them being equals all the day…

I was defending manga's Goku, that he's not that stupid as his anime counterpart, but now... I'm not sure. They have such a hard-on for Goku to be stupid. Even Toriyama is forcing it, because he's the one responsible for that meditation thing in the movie.

They always make Goku stupid somehow. The FT Saga avoided the “I forgot the senzus” cringe, but had Goku mistake the Mafuba seal for a brothel coupon. Him saying he missed Gohan’s birth was even worse than the kissing scene.

But the anime takes the cake for that Goku vs Beerus disguised as Monaka fiasco. That episode managed to be as cringe as all of the show’s sex jokes combined.

Nah Jiren in the manga doesn't seem to be anyone special like in the anime, in the manga Jiren wasn't even seen meditating and throughout the manga tournament he fought Goku, Hit and Vegeta. This uniqueness of Jiren exists in the anime because in the manga itself Jiren is not distinguished by anything more than strength.

Manga Jiren has some scenes where he talks about never wasting a single movement. They never flat out say “Jiren has the biggest Ki ever” like in the anime, which made more sense with the movie.

It was anime filler(I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) but Vegeta after his fight with 18 did a lot of reflecting and came to same conclusion as Goku about advancing SSJ. Also in both manga and anime Vegeta reflected on his fight with Earthlings and that's how he adapted to Ki Searching and actually started to train for the first time.

That was in the manga too.

Spoiler:

[ATA]

=

So i guess Goku scolding super saiyan grade 3 isn't a thing anymore god i hate how the manga writes Goku

I could swear Goku said the same thing to Vegeta when he left the Room of Spirit and Time for the first time. Super Saiyan Full Power was basically the result of that principle. Like, it almost seems to be nod to that scene, as if Vegeta is getting his revenge for being scolded.

This not even including Korin The Cat, Mr.Popo and Kami, King Kai, and Master Roshi(in the manga) teaching him this.

[Soba Mask]

So Broly is super relaxed LOL... And UI isn't...

Anyway does this chapter confirm that Guru is doing the same as Elder Kai

Because Piccolo used Shenron for it mentioned the Guru ability instead of using the Elder Kai method.

So what actually is the difference between the two methods? And does that mean Elder Guru is > Elder Kai because it doesn't take hours

[LightBing]

Arguably Manga Goku already digressed in the ToP arc, then he had to be reminded of all he learned to get back on track.
Honestly Goku was already contradicting himself in the Boo Arc. SSJ3 goes against his principles and behold he failed using that form.

Unfortunately Goku, no matter the medium, has stopped. The character has everything given to him on a plate without earning it. It has no goals besides the next punch.

To make matters worse, the character is dumbed down for laughs or to make others look good. Like how it happened here.

Goku is very much like Dragon Ball at this juncture: it doesn't move forward, it flops around aimlessly.

[Yuji]

Arguably Manga Goku already digressed in the ToP arc, then he had to be reminded of all he learned to get back on track.

There's a difference between intentionally showing a character has forgotten lessons from a decade ago in-universe because the kind of enemies he fights forced him to shift his focusz, and the author just forgetting about the themes of the previous three story arcs.

[Koitsukai]

This arc will take 20,000 years to be done with.
The predictions on the first page had a few of us saying yeah, we'll get to see Gohan fight or about to fight in this one, at least the cliffhanger will be it... lol not even close. The new Black Freeza arc will debut in 2030.

I do wonder what's the point behind all of this, from their perspective. I mean, wouldn't the audience be slightly moving away from this for a while? and A WHILE actually being a big chunk of the year. it's like those sitcom episodes where they recap old situations, skipping this is a no-brainer.

[Alkiser]

=

So i guess Goku scolding super saiyan grade 3 isn't a thing anymore god i hate how the manga writes Goku

I could swear Goku said the same thing to Vegeta when he left the Room of Spirit and Time for the first time. Super Saiyan Full Power was basically the result of that principle. Like, it almost seems to be nod to that scene, as if Vegeta is getting his revenge for being scolded.

This not even including Korin The Cat, Mr.Popo and Kami, King Kai, and Master Roshi(in the manga) teaching him this.

The context of all this is quite different

In one case it's about molding and adapting a super saiyan body, and in the other it's simply training without much purpose without even tiring his body too much because it's simple friendly sparring with Broly and then Vegeta and not catcalling himself ussj in a chamber with 10 times the gravity.