Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Grimlock]

I don't think they're "afraid" of doing anything with it.

"Afraid" implies that they want to do something with it but are too scared to do so; and I don't get sense that anyone there wants to do anything with Evolution.

They just hate it and want to forget it exists.

I think they won't do anything with Dragon Ball Evolution, much less acknowledging it in a "Dragon Ball Across the Multiverse of Madnesspool 3" (it seems Deadpool 3 is shaping up to be what Doctor Strange 2 should have been) way because this concept may still be "different" or "weird" for them. Interconnecting different stories and whatnot doesn't seem to be something the East commonly do like in the West. That's why I only used Godzilla as an example. I don't know other occasions where something like that happened.

I'm not really expecting the Dragon Ball Evolution characters to make any sort of appearance elsewhere. So if that ever happens, I will be very shocked (and happy!) that it happened eventually. I used the word "afraid" in case it's true that they wouldn't do anything with it because of the reception and the large negativity the movie got, but I don't know if that's really the case.

[ABED]

I don't think they're "afraid" of doing anything with it.

"Afraid" implies that they want to do something with it but are too scared to do so; and I don't get sense that anyone there wants to do anything with Evolution.

They just hate it and want to forget it exists.

I think they won't do anything with Dragon Ball Evolution, much less acknowledging it in a "Dragon Ball Across the Multiverse of Madnesspool 3" (it seems Deadpool 3 is shaping up to be what Doctor Strange 2 should have been) way because this concept may still be "different" or "weird" for them. Interconnecting different stories and whatnot doesn't seem to be something the East commonly do like in the West. That's why I only used Godzilla as an example. I don't know other occasions where something like that happened.

I'm not really expecting the Dragon Ball Evolution characters to make any sort of appearance elsewhere. So if that ever happens, I will be very shocked (and happy!) that it happened eventually. I used the word "afraid" in case it's true that they wouldn't do anything with it because of the reception and the large negativity the movie got, but I don't know if that's really the case.

Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness should NOT have been what Deadpool might end up being. I've grown tired of multiverses. They're boring and little more than masturbatory exercises in fanservice. Deadpool is the perfect character to lampoon them and say, this is really dumb. Considering the recent box office of a number of these films, it appears audiences agree.

[Zephyr]

Spider-Verse 2 doing that bad at the box office?

[ABED]

Spider-Verse 2 doing that bad at the box office?

Not all of them have done poorly but DS2, The Flash, Quantumania all didn't do well. Spider-Verse is an outlier bc it concerns itself mostly with telling a story about identity of the main character instead of some romp through the multiverse so a bunch of versions of the same characters can interact with each other which is what one would think audiences want based off social media feedback. Spider-Man seems like the only one who does it well. Not surprising when one considers that those movies are about the heart of those characters and not just "'member that?"

[Grimlock]

I've grown tired of multiverses.

Already? We've barely scratched the surface and little has been done. Keep it coming! Unless you're tired because you consumed a lot of works that dealt with that concept beyond the immediate movies. Then that would be a you problem.

(Advice: you can always avoid them. Or be selective about which work to read/watch/see that deals with the Multiverse. This helps not getting tired of it).

They're boring and little more than masturbatory exercises in fanservice.

It's realistically impossible to be more boring than linear stories, tournaments and retellings. "Masturbatory exercises in fanservice" is pretty much the "modus operandi" of modern entertainment, so no point in complaining about that.

Deadpool is the perfect character to lampoon them and say, this is really dumb.

Yet, Deadpool continues to be featured in stories related to or about Multiverse and he has never said anything negatively towards it, even in satire tone (to the best of my knowledge). Are you sure you aren't just projecting your own issues onto the character and want him to represent this aversion you have?

Considering the recent box office of a number of these films, it appears audiences agree.

It hardly has anything to do with Multiverse itself, though. Some of those films were kinda disappointing or had their own internal problems. And by "some" I mean Doctor Strange 2 and The Flash. One has a weak plot and the other has a controversial actor as its main character.

[Skar]

Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness should NOT have been what Deadpool might end up being. I've grown tired of multiverses. They're boring and little more than masturbatory exercises in fanservice. Deadpool is the perfect character to lampoon them and say, this is really dumb. Considering the recent box office of a number of these films, it appears audiences agree.

I'm not sure if those audiences were against Multiverses specifically since several blockbusters did worse than expected this year and didn't breakeven. Multiverse of Madness was the highest grossing super hero movie last year. That had a lot of fan service but probably also the kind audiences wanted to see.

[MasenkoHA]

The third Ant-man being released during a dump month made it seem like Disney didn't have much faith in it to begin with. It probably did badly for the same reason Love and Thunder did. It looked like ass and everyone was made aware it looked like ass. The Flash movie was probably doomed more by the public ongoings of its star than anything, to the point almost all the advertising seemed way more focused on "Michael Keaton is back as Batman!!!!!" than the eponymous character. Clearly Warner Bros overestimated how much nostalgia for Batman 89 would cancel out people overlooking all the crap Ezra Miller had been up to.


I don't know if audiences are sick of multiverses movies, but I sure am, other than Everything Everywhere All At Once and the Spiderverse movies the rest of them could disappear into the ether for all I care.

[ABED]

I've grown tired of multiverses.

Already? We've barely scratched the surface and little has been done. Keep it coming! Unless you're tired because you consumed a lot of works that dealt with that concept beyond the immediate movies. Then that would be a you problem.

(Advice: you can always avoid them. Or be selective about which work to read/watch/see that deals with the Multiverse. This helps not getting tired of it).

They're boring and little more than masturbatory exercises in fanservice.

It's realistically impossible to be more boring than linear stories, tournaments and retellings. "Masturbatory exercises in fanservice" is pretty much the "modus operandi" of modern entertainment, so no point in complaining about that.

Deadpool is the perfect character to lampoon them and say, this is really dumb.

Yet, Deadpool continues to be featured in stories related to or about Multiverse and he has never said anything negatively towards it, even in satire tone (to the best of my knowledge). Are you sure you aren't just projecting your own issues onto the character and want him to represent this aversion you have?

Considering the recent box office of a number of these films, it appears audiences agree.

It hardly has anything to do with Multiverse itself, though. Some of those films were kinda disappointing or had their own internal problems. And by "some" I mean Doctor Strange 2 and The Flash. One has a weak plot and the other has a controversial actor as its main character.

If you've been around superheroes for more than in just cinema, it's innevitable to run into them. I don't actively seek them out. Much of Flash's TV run dealt with it. It's a gimmick that has diminishing returns creatively.

I'm not sure what you mean by it being impossible to be more boring than linear stories. What does that even mean? Yes, there is a point in complaining about the state of modern entertainment when so much of it is bad for reasons such as fanservice in place of narrative. It doesn't have to be this way.

Considering that the last Deadpool movie has a very memorable scene where it seems to be setting off a team up and then proceeds to kill them all, I'd say he is the perfect character to point out the absurdity of multiverses and undercut it. Dr. Strange 2 did something very similar. I think that's where they are going with this.

A lot of those films were awful, and taking a trip through alternate realities especially ones where they are encountering alt versions of themselves or other franchises from previous films (like in this hypothetical DB example) wouldn't have helped them.

The Flash movie was probably doomed more by the public ongoings of its star than anything

Far fewer people were aware of Miller's issues than you assume. It was expensive, it didn't have a good story, and it was in a franchise that few if any cared about. Then there's the empty fanservice bringing back Keaton. With DB it would be even worse because Evolution doesn't have many if any fans.

[Yuji]

The multiverse in DB isn't exactly the same kind of ordeal as the superhero multiversew. Unless we bring in Heroes into the mix where the separate continuities meet each other, the multiverse in DB just functions as an expansion of the world, not much different from One Piece islands, rather than "remember that?" gimmicks. The other universes all have original locations and characters, they're not just comprised of Gokus from Earth 45627.

[ABED]

The multiverse in DB isn't exactly the same kind of ordeal as the superhero multiversew. Unless we bring in Heroes into the mix where the separate continuities meet each other, the multiverse in DB just functions as an expansion of the world, not much different from One Piece islands, rather than "remember that?" gimmicks. The other universes all have original locations and characters, they're not just comprised of Gokus from Earth 45627.

Which makes it all irrelevant because then it's not fundamentally any different than being in the same universe. Which I guess is fine. Ultimately it's about character and story. Universe, multiverse, timelines, etc. are all window dressing.

I'll stop now. This all feels VERY thread worthy.

[Skar]

Far fewer people were aware of Miller's issues than you assume. It was expensive, it didn't have a good story, and it was in a franchise that few if any cared about. Then there's the empty fanservice bringing back Keaton. With DB it would be even worse because Evolution doesn't have many if any fans.

I think Ezra Miller could've been a major reason since the animated Flashpoint Paradox movie was well received and I'm pretty sure Flash was the highest rated show in the Arrowverse. I just wouldn't use the Flash movie as an example of fans no longer being interested in multiverses. The highest grossing super hero movies since Endgame were No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness and most watched MCU show was Loki which was the only one that had to do with the multiverse.

[Grimlock]

It's a gimmick that has diminishing returns creatively.

You have already mentioned the Spider-Man movies and outright acknowledged their success creatively. There are tons of comic books stories that make great use of Multiverse but because of two movies (out of two, possibly three, I haven't watched The Flash yet, so I don't know if it's a crap movie, story-wise) fumbled, they suddenly "have diminishing returns creatively"? I'll have to ask you to mention what other works you have been following that deal with Multiverse. It's as if you dislike something just because it's becoming popular, but please prove me wrong.

You see, you use Box Office, use the audience to try to prove your point but as Skar continues to prove you wrong:

• Doctor Strange 2 is indeed the highest grossing super-hero movie of 2022.

• The highest rated Arrowverse series is indeed The Flash.

• Spider-Man No Way Home is the highest grossing movie of 2021.

I don't know, it seems to me that, because you dislike Multiverse, you want everybody else, including fictional characters, to share your view. It goes without saying that if this is the case, it's very, very stupid and embarassing. But because you are ABED, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and ask you again, what else have you been seeing that doesn't live up to the potential that the Multiverse concept clearly has?

I'm not sure what you mean by it being impossible to be more boring than linear stories. What does that even mean?

It means stories that have all the potential and the means to branch off but refuse to do so. Such as is the case with Dragon Ball. Instead, it keeps giving us these linear, contained, formulaic "stories".

I'll stop now. This all feels VERY thread worthy.

Indeed it is. In fact, "Multiverse Appreciation Thread" is something I intend to do for a long time. I feel like I've already created many threads this year, so maybe next year, but it's coming. Goddamn I have a lot to say, a lot to address...

The multiverse in DB isn't exactly the same kind of ordeal as the superhero multiversew. Unless we bring in Heroes into the mix where the separate continuities meet each other, the multiverse in DB just functions as an expansion of the world, not much different from One Piece islands, rather than "remember that?" gimmicks. The other universes all have original locations and characters, they're not just comprised of Gokus from Earth 45627.

Yeah, we keep saying "hey what if Dragon Ball Evolution Goku meets Goku" while using the term "Multiverse" but it's technically wrong for the reason you mentioned. In Dragon Ball, the proper term would be "dimension", as coined by SaiyaJedi. I already went into the details about the difference.

[ZeroIsOurHero]

I didn't expect to see a detailed discussion of modern multiverse blockbusters on a Dragon Ball forum of all places, but whatever, I'll indulge.

Personally, I don't think the multiverse is inherently "lazy" or "overused", the concept has a lot of potential. The problem is that 90% of Hollywood creatives don't know how to harness that potential in a meaningful way. Instead of using it to portray any sort of meaningful message or character grown, they just use it to say "Remember when [ACTOR] played [FAMOUS SUPERHERO]? Well, now that actor is BACK, BABY!!!!! CLAP, GODDAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!" And now, people are getting sick of it.

The multiverse, as a storytelling device, is best used when all the universes shown are created specifically for the movie. None of the universes in Spider-Verse had ever been adapted to a movie format before, and none of the universes in Everything Everywhere had even been shown in the first place. The reason why they showed those universes wasn't to cash in on cheap nostalgia, it was to enhance the thematic journey of the story and characters. Multiverse movies with original universes have literally infinite potential, but multiverse movies with pre-existing universes only have the potential to make nerds clap. And the nerds are tired of clapping.

[TheGreatness25]

So, I want to do a little home project where I combine all audio and subtitle options into one video. With Dragon Ball thrift Z, it's obvious that I'm going to use the Japanese Dragon Boxes as the video source (add all types of audio/subtitles including the BLT, Funimation, Blue Water, Westwood, Latin American dubs).

But for the movies, I'm conflicted. I have the Toei Blu-rays that they put out a few years ago, but they have that green tint and they're censored in (not a huge deal, but it's still annoying). Do you think I should use that as the base video? Or Funimation's Blu-rays (despite the fact that I think they look a bit too bright)? Or the Dragon Boxes which have the same tint, but aren't censored? It would be nice to use a Blu-ray for the video source, seeing as they're theatrical movies.

I plan to sync up the Funimation dubs (from the Blu-rays and maybe even original 4:3 DVDs if the licensed music was removed), the Pioneer dubs for movies 1-3 (including their subtitles, which are different from Steve Simmons's), and even chopped up the TV edition of the "Tree of Might" to sync up.

Any advice on which version of the video to use?

[TheGreatness25]

So, I want to do a little home project where I combine all audio and subtitle options into one video. With Dragon Ball thrift Z, it's obvious that I'm going to use the Japanese Dragon Boxes as the video source (add all types of audio/subtitles including the BLT, Funimation, Blue Water, Westwood, Latin American dubs).

But for the movies, I'm conflicted. I have the Toei Blu-rays that they put out a few years ago, but they have that green tint and they're censored in (not a huge deal, but it's still annoying). Do you think I should use that as the base video? Or Funimation's Blu-rays (despite the fact that I think they look a bit too bright)? Or the Dragon Boxes which have the same tint, but aren't censored? It would be nice to use a Blu-ray for the video source, seeing as they're theatrical movies.

I plan to sync up the Funimation dubs (from the Blu-rays and maybe even original 4:3 DVDs if the licensed music was removed), the Pioneer dubs for movies 1-3 (including their subtitles, which are different from Steve Simmons's), and even chopped up the TV edition of the "Tree of Might" to sync up.

Any advice on which version of the video to use?

[Zephyr]

Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness should NOT have been what Deadpool might end up being. I've grown tired of multiverses. They're boring and little more than masturbatory exercises in fanservice. Deadpool is the perfect character to lampoon them and say, this is really dumb. Considering the recent box office of a number of these films, it appears audiences agree.

I'm not sure if those audiences were against Multiverses specifically since several blockbusters did worse than expected this year and didn't breakeven. Multiverse of Madness was the highest grossing super hero movie last year. That had a lot of fan service but probably also the kind audiences wanted to see.

Yeah, some multiverse movies have done well recently, others haven't. Some superhero movies have done well recently, others haven't. I just don't think this is the specific deciding factor, as comforting as it might be to believe that one's own sentiment is being shared by general audiences. It's going to be funny if the multiverse angle is boring general audiences though, because that's about the only place the MCU has left to go, in terms of topping the "hype" of their own pre-existing crossover films.

Besides, I enjoyed Dr. Strange 2 plenty, and it had little to do with the "multiverse fanservice" (something it was very light on, relative to what I was expecting). But I do fully expect Deadpool 3 to lampoon the idea, and it should prove at least somewhat entertaining.

[Skar]

Yeah, some multiverse movies have done well recently, others haven't. Some superhero movies have done well recently, others haven't. I just don't think this is the specific deciding factor, as comforting as it might be to believe that one's own sentiment is being shared by general audiences. It's going to be funny if the multiverse angle is boring general audiences though, because that's about the only place the MCU has left to go, in terms of topping the "hype" of their own pre-existing crossover films.

Besides, I enjoyed Dr. Strange 2 plenty, and it had little to do with the "multiverse fanservice" (something it was very light on, relative to what I was expecting). But I do fully expect Deadpool 3 to lampoon the idea, and it should prove at least somewhat entertaining.

I look forward to seeing how the X-Men fit in the MCU. Deadpool 3 might be the only upcoming MCU movie that has to do with the multiverse before the next Avengers movie about Kang. Even though Phase 4 was the start of the Multiverse saga, there were still some movies and shows that were more self-contained or at least only took place in the main MCU timeline.

It's hard to tell how long general audiences would be interested since there could be several factors aside from not liking the idea of a multiverse. Cinema in general still having a long way to recover. 2022 was the "best" year since Covid but global box office was still around half of 2019's total. 2023 was projected to be better but so far several big budget movies performed worse than expected such as the new Transformers, FF, Indiana Jones, Little Mermaid, and some superhero movies. Super Mario Bros is one of few movies that did better than expected and only one to gross more than a billion this year so far.

[dbgtFO]

"Galaxy on the brink!! The super incredible guy"
Or "Bojack Unbound" to fans of the Funi dub was released 30 years ago this day on the 10th of july.
I suppose it was decent for what it was and the cool new locations and tournament set up were cool.

[MrSatan2099]

"Galaxy on the brink!! The super incredible guy"
Or "Bojack Unbound" to fans of the Funi dub was released 30 years ago this day on the 10th of july.
I suppose it was decent for what it was and the cool new locations and tournament set up were cool.

Always had a soft spot for movie 9. Mr. Satan's outfit, perfect. I wish we would have seen more of it.

[Grimlock]

Surprised no one has mentioned yet, as far as I can see... Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman is turning ten years old (today)!

Because it hasn't been animated yet, we're still in this weird spot where characters suddenly show up without as much of an explanation but we have to accept they were always there.

Anyway, who'd thought this out-of-nowhere-manga would eventually tie in with the Dragon Ball series? I remember not paying much attention to it in the beginning, so the revelation at the end certainly caught me off guard. Toriyama's modern artstyle is pretty good and easy on the eyes (for the human characters, it doesn't fit for Saiyans). Characters are nothing to write home about but they are overall okay. And it's the manga responsible for changing the date of planet Vegeta's destruction as well as Goku's arrival on Earth just because it wants to. I still want to see a little bit more of Tights, if they don't mind.

Happy anniversary, Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman!