Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[Mr Baggins]

That's not really true though, is it? Dragon Ball thrived during its original run by doing what the masses wanted.

The Journey to the West parody adventure story the manga started as was very unpopular, so they shifted fighting story more influenced by the very popular Fist of the North Star. Focusing on combat and conflict was so popular the series just kept leaning into that until it ended.

That's not exactly what I'm talking about. Dragon Ball is, at its core, a fantasy adventure series about martial arts alongside some heavy comedic elements thrown in thanks to its creator's own area of expertise. None of that has changed with Daima. It was, still is, and will continue to be recognizably Dragon Ball.

But the devil is in the details, which is that "area of expertise" I just mentioned. Everything from the manga's first arcs to Piccolo to Vegeta to Freeza to Cell and especially Boo has been built on Toriyama violating tropes, swerving against common predictions and build-up, and even deriding the audience's own hopes for the plot; sometimes for comedic effect, but often because it just benefited whatever he wanted to do with the story. There isn't a single arc in the original manga that doesn't put Toriyama's background as a gag writer to use, with examples so limitless that you could actually argue the man was actively subverting the very same shounen fads he invented while creating them.

What we're seeing with Daima here is all very much in Toriyama's wheelhouse, which is why a premise like "the cast turns into little rascals" is so unsurprising to the vast majority of people familiar with his style. There's a reason the franchise's light-hearted, playful elements are always given the most emphasis whenever Toriyama delves into his process as a writer, especially in DB's modern era where he's less bound by editorial pressure. It's not just about being spiteful or subverting purely for subversion's sake or whatever, but it's totally in line with what we'd expect from an artist of Toriyama's caliber, and it's absolutely promising coming from an author who understands his world, its tone, and its own brand of storytelling more than anyone.

Taking one (1) fan (I imagine you meant Toyo-tarou) and filtering him through Toriyama, Victory Uchida, Shueisha publishing, and fuck knows how many layers of ill-gotten nurturing and then saying "This is proof that there is no alternative" makes no sense.

Two things:

1. I am not referring to Toyotaro. Of all the takeaways I've seen from my post so far, this one befuddles me.

2. Obviously, many creatives are involved in a work like this with differing levels of input and authority. This isn't actually relevant to what I said.

I can only assume you meant to quote someone else.

[Zephyr]

But the devil is in the details, which is that "area of expertise" I just mentioned. Everything from the manga's first arcs to Piccolo to Vegeta to Freeza to Cell and especially Boo has been built on Toriyama violating tropes, swerving against common predictions and build-up, and even deriding the audience's own hopes for the plot; sometimes for comedic effect, but often because it just benefited whatever he wanted to do with the story. There isn't a single arc in the original manga that doesn't put Toriyama's background as a gag writer to use, with examples so limitless that you could actually argue the man was actively subverting the very same shounen fads he invented while creating them.

I wouldn't really say he started subverting his own formula in any notable way until Cell and Boo. The original story had its share of both being predictable and swerving that predictability. There had to be some very common tropes in use for a while in order for Cell and Boo to subvert them in the first place. As just one example, how many times did we see "Goku is taken out of action.....now he's returned just in time"?

[JulieYBM]

That's not really true though, is it? Dragon Ball thrived during its original run by doing what the masses wanted.

The Journey to the West parody adventure story the manga started as was very unpopular, so they shifted fighting story more influenced by the very popular Fist of the North Star. Focusing on combat and conflict was so popular the series just kept leaning into that until it ended.

That's not exactly what I'm talking about. Dragon Ball is, at its core, a fantasy adventure series about martial arts alongside some heavy comedic elements thrown in thanks to its creator's own area of expertise. None of that has changed with Daima. It was, still is, and will continue to be recognizably Dragon Ball.

But the devil is in the details, which is that "area of expertise" I just mentioned. Everything from the manga's first arcs to Piccolo to Vegeta to Freeza to Cell and especially Boo has been built on Toriyama violating tropes, swerving against common predictions and build-up, and even deriding the audience's own hopes for the plot; sometimes for comedic effect, but often because it just benefited whatever he wanted to do with the story. There isn't a single arc in the original manga that doesn't put Toriyama's background as a gag writer to use, with examples so limitless that you could actually argue the man was actively subverting the very same shounen fads he invented while creating them.

What we're seeing with Daima here is all very much in Toriyama's wheelhouse, which is why a premise like "the cast turns into little rascals" is so unsurprising to the vast majority of people familiar with his style. There's a reason the franchise's light-hearted, playful elements are always given the most emphasis whenever Toriyama delves into his process as a writer, especially in DB's modern era where he's less bound by editorial pressure. It's not just about being spiteful or subverting purely for subversion's sake or whatever, but it's totally in line with what we'd expect from an artist of Toriyama's caliber, and it's absolutely promising coming from an author who understands his world, its tone, and its own brand of storytelling more than anyone.

Taking one (1) fan (I imagine you meant Toyo-tarou) and filtering him through Toriyama, Victory Uchida, Shueisha publishing, and fuck knows how many layers of ill-gotten nurturing and then saying "This is proof that there is no alternative" makes no sense.

Two things:

1. I am not referring to Toyotaro. Of all the takeaways I've seen from my post so far, this one befuddles me.

2. Obviously, many creatives are involved in a work like this with differing levels of input and authority. This isn't actually relevant to what I said.

I can only assume you meant to quote someone else.

I wouldn't have had to assume if you'd been a bit more clear and actually specified what you mean. Furthermore, my point still stands because any writer for official Dragon Ball projects is going to be put into the same damned near impossible conditions.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Well, this is certainly...different. Of course it's going to be like a full year before the thing even releases so i'm reserving judgment until then. Who knows if this is going to be something that fails in execution or proves to be a legit good or even great thing in terms of the greater franchise as a whole. I was certainly surprised to see this concept beyond what GT did with just Goku, because it legit reminds me of the "baby/kidification" trend that started in the '80s and was a thing up to the early 2000's. Where literally just about EVERY popular animated franchise under the sun had a show with junior versions of popular characters. The Muppets, Scooby-Doo, Looney Tunes, The Flintstones, Tom and Jerry, you name it. So it's really striking to me to see them go this kind of direction, though time will tell whether it works as a whole. I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic until we get more footage to really judge the overall direction.

Edit: It's looking like they're intending this as an anniversary thing, given that next year is the 40th anniversary of the manga's debut back in 1984. So it may be they have a set amount of episodes and it's being done to celebrate that big milestone.

[Grimlock]

And agreed with Xeogran, make it at least be post-Super Hero, just take us out of this 10 years hell already

Until we are told otherwise, for now it is better to assume this is after Dragon Ball Super Super Hero.

Well, I just noticed that Goku and Bulma are seemingly seeing each other in this new series. This may or may not contribute to it being set in an earlier period than what is expected. So it's either that or that famous line is thrown out of the window, with no way to make it work.

The latter is still the case. As Goku and Bulma last saw each other in Dragon Ball Super Broly, set in AGE 780. Goku and Bulma rounded up the amount of time to "five years", but in reality it was four years and X months. Unless we take into consideration the manga sagas (which... Does anyone still do that? We are to get yet another piece of material that will most likely ignore the manga events, so... Does anyone, deep down, really care about the manga sagas?), this series may indeed occur earlier if Toriyama is still willing to follow that old line, if he remembers that line, that is.

[GhostEmperorX]

We've already seen what happens when writers not named Toriyama try to cater to dudebros who think Dragon Ball is WWE

In particular I think the character of Broli seems to fit that mold by default, and that's even before anyone stateside tried to sell DB as being such a thing in a juvenile fashion.

[Mr Baggins]

I wouldn't have had to assume if you'd been a bit more clear and actually specified what you mean. Furthermore, my point still stands because any writer for official Dragon Ball projects is going to be put into the same damned near impossible conditions.

I thought I was clear enough (others had no trouble getting it) and it's obviously, almost trivially true that it's going to be impossible for any one writer to fully align with the original creator and his vision on their own; that's why I, and apparently Shueisha and current Toei, favor his (heavy) story involvement. Again, you're not really contesting anything I said, and why you specifically latched on to a Toriyama collaborator like Toyotaro when there are dozens of other DB works without any Toriyama involvement at all confounds me.

Anyway, I don't care for pointlessly arguing semantics, so I'll keep it moving.

____________________

I watched the teaser again and just noticed that the Boo/BoG era designs are used for Bulma and some of the other characters. I'd think that would place Daima either squarely right after Boo or shortly after BoG. Given the subtitle and Boo references, and probable lack of any reference to Super, the former strikes me as more likely. Obviously there's the issue of Shin and Kibito being unfused, but as LoganForkHands73 said, that could be a temporary effect of the spell.

Or maybe it's just another continuity error that DB is certainly no stranger to.

[ChronoTwigger]

Would you say it's too early to start saying goodbye to Beerus, Whis, and all the characters Super has introduced in the last 7 or so years?

It's too late XD.
There's only two plot points left: Goku vs Beerus and Black Frieza.
Toyotaro can still draw infinite fanfictions rolling dice on a table, anyway. Caffelatte, the Android Ninja. Giuberta the BioMage from 78nth Dimension. Brodo di Pollo, the savage sayan zombie that can turn people older. Who care, just have Vegeta being the creative fighter, some retcon to modify the franchise to his own tastes (and to fit Vegeta better), and Super can run forever.
But, considering that will be difficult to follow so much DB stuff and keep quality straight, I suppose Super will end soon, probably with a movie that solve the two plot points missing (Goku vs Beerus can be left open, but Beerus should move away) .

[Rafa Fast]

.....eavesdrops....idk man, didn't Akira do what he wanted in the manga? As far as I know, the most external interference he had in his work was from his editors (things like one saying "an old man and a fat man can't be the villains of this arc), the most influence the fans had on the series was Akio Iyoku giving the idea of ​​making a Broly film and giving Gohan the spotlight in Super Hero as these two characters were popular among fans, that's all I know (I've also heard that Fukkatsu no F is more battle focused because fans complained about BoG having too much comedy)

The true problem is people already saying that Daima sucks only because (...) and everyone being a kid again, They fucking never watched a single episode of it, how the fuck do they know that it sucks?

Dragon Ball Daima doesn't suck as of right now, but that aspect does indeed. Ever since 2008 we are stuck in the same time frame, and ever since then I'm waiting to see the characters grow up and get older, it is one of the most important features of Dragon Ball. So to see them regressing is the exact opposite of what I would like to see. Also, this is Dragon Ball, so we know what to expect. When Freeza was announced as the villain for the Movie 15, I just wanted to leave this Earth and find a better place to live, to this day I continue to want to do that rather than watching Movie 15, as it managed to turn out to be even worse than I imagined.

Then I believe that what you mean is that it sucks that this apparently won't make the story move foward and take us out of those damn 10 years
I don't see them becoming kids again as a problem because, as someone else already said in this thread, it could be important to establish the "new version of EoZ", where the characters would be much younger than their actual ages, if that's the case then I think it would be a good explanation (imo), and Toriyama supposedly doesn't like how everyone is too old in EoZ (again, demanding a source for this, I can't find it anywhere)
Now if that's indeed just a side story, then for me it's gonna be a waste, not only of the concept but a waste of a opportunity of moving forward with the story
This a side story I'm making just for fun to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the franchise, it will be no relevant, if that's the case, okay, it's cute, but damn, at least for me, specially stuff as the Makaioshins, could be very important elements for the major chronology, it's a concept that they are finally exploring after 30 years.
everyone's saying that it could be pre-BoG because of no Super characters or elements being present, but hey, wouldn't Super's version of Eoz also not feature stuff from Super as well? I don't see a reason for Beerus and Whis to show up in the 28th TB
Idk but I'm have the feeling that this could be the case, we get the new saga in the manga after the Super Hero one, this last saga gives us a conclusion to the Black Freeza story and tell us what happened to Beerus and Whis and that's it, what comes next is Daima and then new EoZ I guess?

Well, I just noticed that Goku and Bulma are seemingly seeing each other in this new series. This may or may not contribute to it being set in an earlier period than what is expected. So it's either that or that famous line is thrown out of the window, with no way to make it work.

The latter is still the case. As Goku and Bulma last saw each other in Dragon Ball Super Broly, set in AGE 780. Goku and Bulma rounded up the amount of time to "five years", but in reality it was four years and X months. Unless we take into consideration the manga sagas (which... Does anyone still do that? We are to get yet another piece of material that will most likely ignore the manga events, so... Does anyone, deep down, really care about the manga sagas?), this series may indeed occur earlier if Toriyama is still willing to follow that old line, if he remembers that line, that is.

Well, I appreciate your effort in trying to make sense of this, but it's been a long time since I personally jumped on the bandwagon of believers that there's no way EoZ can be the same as before and that the whole thing will have to be rewritten. It's impossible to tell of Toriyama forgot that line from Bulma, but I can say that it's quite possible that he ignored it and just wants to move on with the story the way he sees fit.
I wonder if this is taking a while to happen for creative reasons, maybe Toriyama doesn't really like Goten, Present Trunks, Uub and Pan, or doesn't have faith that they could carry the series from here on in, AFAIK Goku and Vegeta have already become " masters" in EoZ, their arcs are already over and they have nothing left to learn, like, I like GT, and GT tries to continue with Goku, but the vast majority don't like GT, so...this could indicate that Toriyama doesn't want to reach EoZ because he's afraid he won't know what to do after this event? (which is quite ironic because it is precisely in a post-EoZ story that there are more possibilities for anything to happen)

Well anyway, the only thing I'm really afraid of in Daima is this possibility that it's just a side story that won't move the series forward (and also that the series might be shit, but I have fun with almost anything DB so I'm probably going to like it)
I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't affect the story at all, the 2008 OVA is there and, were Abo and Cado ever mentioned again? The events of that movie? Tarble? Yes, he is mentioned twice afterwards but remove those mentions and literally nothing will change

Fortunately I think this story will be huge stuff for the chronology, fortunately I think there is more chance of this story being a big deal for the main chronology, since Battle of Gods the stories in which Toriyama is most involved are the ones that matter most to Super (in short, those of the films), U6, Zamasu, ToP, Moro and Granolla, all had little involvement from him, which is why they don't seem to be very relevant sagas with little connection between them.

I watched the teaser again and just noticed that the Boo/BoG era designs are used for Bulma and some of the other characters.

Only Chichi and Mr. Satan have their designs from BoG (the colours don't even match 100%), Yamcha is his Boo Saga design but with long hair, all the other characters have completely new designs (with the exception of Piccolo, Roshi, Puer, Gyumao, Kaioshin and Kibito, these all are with their original designs from their debut arcs)

[Yuji]

I doubt we'll see them for more than a few episodes but I'm really disappointed with a lot of the designs for the cast. They don't really look like kids, they just look chibi. Gyuumao, Roshi and Mr. Satan are the only ones that look any different. Piccolo, Chi-Chi, Vegeta and Goku have a child design already and they weren't used. The others just look like chibi versions of their adult selves.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

All Goku's gang turning into kids is certainly unexpected. Still a bizarre choice for it to happen to any of them, particularly because Toriyama had to argue with his editor to have Goku age up, and Goku being turned into a kid is not something GT gets credit for, even among some of its defenders.

Still willing to give this a chance, as its new content and the animation is absolutely beautiful. I would have preferred a Dragon Ball reboot if they wanted kid Goku again, and so there would have been no need for the mental gymnastics needed to figure out where this will fit into those "10 years of peace".

Ah well, it's more Dragon Ball anyway and I'll always watch (and own where possible) it all so roll on fall 2024.

[Mr Baggins]

Goku being turned into a kid is not something GT gets credit for, even among some of its defenders.

I dunno, man. I'm probably one of the biggest GT haters on the planet and that's one idea I never had a problem with, at least on paper.

It's mostly the execution that really soured that series for me, which I'm much more optimistic about here.

[Yuji]

Goku being turned into a kid is not something GT gets credit for, even among some of its defenders.

I dunno, man. I'm probably one of the biggest GT haters on the planet and that's one idea I never had a problem with, at least on paper.

It's mostly the execution that really soured that series for me, which I'm much more optimistic about here.

I agree. The concept of GT's first arc wasn't the problem, the problem was that the locations they visited weren't interesting visually or lore-wise and the trip meandered until they did a swift U-turn back to Z-action once they saw how poorly received the adventures were.

The snippets from this trailer with the dragon on the alien world already show more "adventure" than GT ever did and, I daresay, even the original series did. It does look like something out of Toriyama's other works like Blue Dragon.

[Dragon ball master]

I made the daima trailer with one of the sonic mania trailer music and it realy good. Who wants to see what i made.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

From what I've seen in regards to the production info for a series, this sounds like a banger that we have so desperately wanted to see for so long. Sure, DBS: Broly has set the benchmark for having the highest production value we have ever seen out of Dragon Ball, but granted it was a movie. Because this is a series that could last for quite a while, this should be for an interesting ride.

I do wonder if Yamamuro will be one of the animators for Daima (I really don't want to see him anywhere near Dragon Ball).

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Goku being turned into a kid is not something GT gets credit for, even among some of its defenders.

I dunno, man. I'm probably one of the biggest GT haters on the planet and that's one idea I never had a problem with, at least on paper.

It's mostly the execution that really soured that series for me, which I'm much more optimistic about here.

In theory most concepts can work well if the execution is right. The problem is Goku being turned back into a kid overstayed its welcome, and aside from everyone else suffering the same fate its lost its novelty. As I say I'm open to being pleasantly surprised and Toriyama has a way of achieving that, so his involvement being bigger than usual is promising.

[Rafa Fast]

this sounds like a banger that we have been so desperately wanted to see for so long

Hmmm what XD? Everything I see is people demanding Moro and Granolla animated :v

And yeah, I'm curious about Yamamuro too

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

this sounds like a banger that we have been so desperately wanted to see for so long

Hmmm what XD? Everything I see is people demanding Moro and Granolla animated :v

And yeah, I'm curious about Yamamuro too

Moro and Granolah arcs are not a necessity for me. Sure, it would be nice, but I also don't mind Daima. The fact that the web series has a stacked staff with good production schedule is enough for me.

[CashmanX]

https://twitter.com/CSA0905/status/1712945468194353258

https://twitter.com/CSA0905/status/1712946679903596604

So there's a twitter post speculating on something I've wanted modern DB to touch upon for years now.

The demon realm and the Makaioshin.

Take notice the mohawk character is also wearing Kaioushin clothing as well.

[super michael]

this sounds like a banger that we have been so desperately wanted to see for so long

Hmmm what XD? Everything I see is people demanding Moro and Granolla animated :v

And yeah, I'm curious about Yamamuro too

Moro and Granolah arcs are not a necessity for me. Sure, it would be nice, but I also don't mind Daima. The fact that the web series has a stacked staff with good production schedule is enough for me.

Imagine being able to play as Moro 73, Avatar UI Goku, UE Vegeta with Hakai, Granolah, Gas, Black Freeza, etc. That is what it means if the Moro and Granolah chapters gets animated.
Right now those forms and characters can't get added to any Dragon Ball game at all, since they are manga exclusive.