Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[QuakingStar]

It dodges first and foremost and clearly has only NOT dodged when it couldn't do so which usually is because Goku either being simply unable to because the opponents speed and accuracy of their attack was too great therefor Goku blocks instead.. OR because UI's accuracy has dropped too much. He JUST turned into UI which Beerus and Whis confirm is his currently strongest usage of it. So if it dodges by instict, it should otherwise only block what it cannot dodge.

This does not at all explain why Goku blocks Moro's attacks in Chapter 64, a mere handful of pages after initially Completing Ultra Instinct and while still in the midst of showing everyone that he's hugely superior to Moro. Please address this point. By continuing to maintain that Ultra Instinct only blocks instead of dodging if it is 'forced' to, you're repeatedly asserting something that is directly contradicted by what is actually shown in the manga, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to do this.

You mean the same Arc where Goku just let Moro punch his chest, for the cool effect of his hand breaking? The same Arc where UI was implied to have finally been mastered and then it turns out it wasn't?? That is called an outlier. UI's literally been explained by Whis.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku blocks 73-Moro attacks multiple times, despite being totally able to dodge those attacks. That goes to show that Goku blocking Gohan’s attacks doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of dodging them.

[QuakingStar]

Goku blocks 73-Moro attacks multiple times, despite being totally able to dodge those attacks. That goes to show that Goku blocking Gohan’s attacks doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of dodging them.

That's where it becomes an outlier, it is literally stated to dodge by instinct, therefor it should be ducking and dodging by instinct. We see when he is fighting Jiren in the manga that he is dodging and ducking Jirens hits until Jirens power and speed finally caught up and then they were blocking each others hits, then as Goku began to lose accuracy he got hit and then lost UI. That's how it is supposed to work.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku blocks 73-Moro attacks multiple times, despite being totally able to dodge those attacks. That goes to show that Goku blocking Gohan’s attacks doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of dodging them.

That's where it becomes an outlier, it is literally stated to dodge by instinct, therefor it should be ducking and dodging by instinct. We see when he is fighting Jiren in the manga that he is dodging and ducking Jirens hits until Jirens power and speed finally caught up and then they were blocking each others hits, then as Goku began to lose accuracy he got hit and then lost UI. That's how it is supposed to work.

What is being asked is why you think that blocking is a sign that his body decided that dodging became impractical.

[QuakingStar]

Goku blocks 73-Moro attacks multiple times, despite being totally able to dodge those attacks. That goes to show that Goku blocking Gohan’s attacks doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of dodging them.

That's where it becomes an outlier, it is literally stated to dodge by instinct, therefor it should be ducking and dodging by instinct. We see when he is fighting Jiren in the manga that he is dodging and ducking Jirens hits until Jirens power and speed finally caught up and then they were blocking each others hits, then as Goku began to lose accuracy he got hit and then lost UI. That's how it is supposed to work.

What is being asked is why you think that blocking is a sign that his body decided that dodging became impractical.

UI's instinct is to dodge and attack. Dodging should be first, blocking is what it should do when dodging is not an option. It's described as able to automatically instinctually dodge, and auto-attack. Why would it go straight to blocking when that's not what UI normally does? Of course this could be just Toyo forgetting that himself but the way it looks to me is that Goku has not been able to dodge Gohans attacks or land any of his own. Unlike vs Jiren, Moro, Gas, and Granolah where he did land his own attacks and the MAJORITY of him using UI was dodging and attacking.

[Magnificent Ponta]

This does not at all explain why Goku blocks Moro's attacks in Chapter 64, a mere handful of pages after initially Completing Ultra Instinct and while still in the midst of showing everyone that he's hugely superior to Moro. Please address this point. By continuing to maintain that Ultra Instinct only blocks instead of dodging if it is 'forced' to, you're repeatedly asserting something that is directly contradicted by what is actually shown in the manga, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to do this.

You mean the same Arc where Goku just let Moro punch his chest, for the cool effect of his hand breaking? The same Arc where UI was implied to have finally been mastered and then it turns out it wasn't?? That is called an outlier.

With respect, handwaving material that is inconvenient to your personal interpretation (which is what this is - after all, one looks through the manga in vain for any statement that Ultra Instinct will only block if it cannot dodge, like you're claiming), simply so that you can continue to uphold it, is unsatisfactory argumentation that does not at all address the point being made.

UI's literally been explained by Whis.

Indeed. Among other things, Whis confirms that while Goku is blocking and dodging Moro, his use of Ultra Instinct is becoming increasingly refined. So it seems that the success with which it is wielded has nothing to do with whether he is specifically dodging or not. He also explains in the next Chapter that Ultra Instinct makes the body become automatically sturdier as needed. These things are also part of what Ultra Instinct is "about". Or do these statements and explanations of what Ultra Instinct does, not count either? And if not, could you please explain properly why it is that you think not?

It might also be contended that your conviction that Ultra Instinct is usually just about dodging comes from an overly restrictive reading of what Whis says in the statement you quoted earlier. The verb used for what Ultra Instinct does in the statement you quote as "dodge", is 回避する (kaihi suru), which simply means evasion or avoidance more generally, and not specifically or exclusively dodging.

Ultra Instinct is about avoiding the enemy's attack, and the body subconsciously makes the decision as to what the best response is in order to do that. Sometimes it is indeed by completely dodging, but other times it is quite demonstrably by other means such as blocking or stopping the attack before it gets anywhere, and despite your argumentation that it "should" be the case (because...?) there is no 'hierarchy of bodily decision' yet established by the manga, that ordinarily privileges dodging over any other possible response.

the way it looks to me is that Goku has not been able to dodge Gohans attacks or land any of his own.

It's fine for you to interpret the fight this way. Who knows? Maybe there'll even be a statement somewhere in this Chapter or the next to the effect that Gohan's putting Goku under too much pressure and he can't do anything except protect himself.

What's not fine is to selectively ignore the actual material under discussion in order to disingenuously push a particular interpretation of what Ultra Instinct does, and to do so in a way that is hostile to other members who, quite understandably and for sound reasons, disagree with your interpretations (as with your exchange with Alkiser). This is a discussion forum, not a battleboard.

[Mr Baggins]

Or, you could just have not commented some stupid shit because somehow my comment bothered you.

Well, yeah – your comments (plural) about stalking people on social media because they had a different opinion a while ago is just a wee bit disturbing, creepy, and distracting, my guy. I don't think I should have to explain why that's not appropriate behavior, especially when it concerns a kid's comic. Be better.

Anyway, Ultra Instinct is clearly more about auto/instinctive evasion than dodging specifically. That includes blocking. The Moro arc isn't an outlier here; the first thing UI Goku does against Jiren is block/counter his attacks before we see him dodging anything at all. Likewise, Goku doing the same with Gohan isn't evidence of anything specific.

[QuakingStar]

This does not at all explain why Goku blocks Moro's attacks in Chapter 64, a mere handful of pages after initially Completing Ultra Instinct and while still in the midst of showing everyone that he's hugely superior to Moro. Please address this point. By continuing to maintain that Ultra Instinct only blocks instead of dodging if it is 'forced' to, you're repeatedly asserting something that is directly contradicted by what is actually shown in the manga, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to do this.

You mean the same Arc where Goku just let Moro punch his chest, for the cool effect of his hand breaking? The same Arc where UI was implied to have finally been mastered and then it turns out it wasn't?? That is called an outlier.

With respect, handwaving material that is inconvenient to your personal interpretation (which is what this is - after all, one looks through the manga in vain for any statement that Ultra Instinct will only block if it cannot dodge, like you're claiming), simply so that you can continue to uphold it, is unsatisfactory argumentation that does not at all address the point being made.

UI's literally been explained by Whis.

Indeed. Among other things, Whis confirms that while Goku is blocking and dodging Moro, his use of Ultra Instinct is becoming increasingly refined. So it seems that the success with which it is wielded has nothing to do with whether he is specifically dodging or not. He also explains in the next Chapter that Ultra Instinct makes the body become automatically sturdier as needed. These things are also part of what Ultra Instinct is "about". Or do these statements and explanations of what Ultra Instinct does, not count either? And if not, could you please explain properly why it is that you think not?

It might also be contended that your conviction that Ultra Instinct is usually just about dodging comes from an overly restrictive reading of what Whis says in the statement you quoted earlier. The verb used for what Ultra Instinct does in the statement you quote as "dodge", is 回避する (kaihi suru), which simply means evasion or avoidance more generally, and not specifically or exclusively dodging.

Ultra Instinct is about avoiding the enemy's attack, and the body subconsciously makes the decision as to what the best response is in order to do that. Sometimes it is indeed by completely dodging, but other times it is quite demonstrably by other means such as blocking or stopping the attack before it gets anywhere, and despite your argumentation that it "should" be the case (because...?) there is no 'hierarchy of bodily decision' yet established by the manga, that ordinarily privileges dodging over any other possible response.

the way it looks to me is that Goku has not been able to dodge Gohans attacks or land any of his own.

It's fine for you to interpret the fight this way. Who knows? Maybe there'll even be a statement somewhere in this Chapter or the next to the effect that Gohan's putting Goku under too much pressure and he can't do anything except protect himself.

What's not fine is to selectively ignore the actual material under discussion in order to disingenuously push a particular interpretation of what Ultra Instinct does, and to do so in a way that is hostile to other members who, quite understandably and for sound reasons, disagree with your interpretations (as with your exchange with Alkiser). This is a discussion forum, not a battleboard.

That's a cool story bud. Like I said, UI seems to usually opt to dodge instead of block, you're saying more that doesn't actually change that



@Mr Baggins Who apparently can't read, I never said stalk, I said lurk.. which means I didn't comment or interact with them. You are the creepy and disturbing one, that you came to that conclusion based on something you made up(because apparently reading is hard). All you've really succeeded in doing is annoy me because somehow my comment bothered you so you had to add your unwanted and unneeded commentary on my comment. But tell me more about how me enjoying them seething over how wrong they were is the issue and not you literally making things up and being very, very weird. Please seek some help little bro.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Like I said, UI seems to usually opt to dodge instead of block

Respectfully, this is absolutely not what you said. To be quite clear, what you actually said, repeatedly, is that Ultra Instinct will only block if for some reason it cannot dodge:

Yeah one thing people are missing.. is UI Auto-Dodges, it only blocks when it can't dodge doesn't it? Yet Gohan is casually forcing Goku to block

We've seen it since it was introduced, and Goku's only ever blocked when he couldn't dodge or the ONE moment where he let Moro break his hand on his chest.

It dodges first and foremost and clearly has only NOT dodged when it couldn't do so which usually is because Goku either being simply unable to because the opponents speed and accuracy of their attack was too great therefor Goku blocks instead.. OR because UI's accuracy has dropped too much.

That is simply wrong, and has been shown to be so by direct reference to the manga, since Goku is shown blocking when he's also perfectly capable of dodging.

If you're intending to retract that and instead own your revised position that it seems to happen more often, that's fine by me, no worries. But pursuing a non-discussion where you're firstly making up rules for how Ultra Instinct 'should' work, then trying to make out like the manga doesn't count whenever you don't like it, and then finally pretending that you said something other than what you actually said...what exactly is the point of that?

[QuakingStar]

Like I said, UI seems to usually opt to dodge instead of block

Respectfully, this is absolutely not what you said. To be quite clear, what you actually said, repeatedly, is that Ultra Instinct will only block if for some reason it cannot dodge:

Yeah one thing people are missing.. is UI Auto-Dodges, it only blocks when it can't dodge doesn't it? Yet Gohan is casually forcing Goku to block

We've seen it since it was introduced, and Goku's only ever blocked when he couldn't dodge or the ONE moment where he let Moro break his hand on his chest.

It dodges first and foremost and clearly has only NOT dodged when it couldn't do so which usually is because Goku either being simply unable to because the opponents speed and accuracy of their attack was too great therefor Goku blocks instead.. OR because UI's accuracy has dropped too much.

That is simply wrong, and has been shown to be so by direct reference to the manga, since Goku is shown blocking when he's also perfectly capable of dodging.

If you're intending to retract that and instead own your revised position that it seems to happen more often, that's fine by me, no worries. But pursuing a non-discussion where you're firstly making up rules for how Ultra Instinct 'should' work, then trying to make out like the manga doesn't count whenever you don't like it, and then finally pretending that you said something other than what you actually said...what exactly is the point of that?

"only blocks when it can't dodge doesn't it?" I've seen no statement or panel to shut this question down. UI Goku has blocked sure, but who's to say he chose to just because he could and that it was not instinct TELLING him to do so? adn why would he block when he can simply move which is what UI makes him do automatically? I'm starting to get the feeling that you all are arguing not just because of that, but because of something else, I wonder what that could be lol

[Magnificent Ponta]

"only blocks when it can't dodge doesn't it?" I've seen no statement or panel to shut this question down.

Other than Chapter 64, where Goku blocks repeated strikes with one arm and then starts dodging without even moving from the spot he's standing on, of course. That seems amply to shut down your suggestion that Ultra Instinct only blocks when it can't dodge.

Only you don't want to count it. Just cuz, apparently.

UI Goku has blocked sure, but who's to say he chose to just because he could and that it was not instinct TELLING him to do so? adn why would he block when he can simply move which is what UI makes him do automatically?

I'm honestly not even sure what argument you're trying to make here, with this. This is just grasping at straws.

I'm starting to get the feeling that you all are arguing not just because of that, but because of something else, I wonder what that could be lol

I can't speak for anyone else, but I said at the top of all this that I'm perfectly fine with Gohan being the strongest (either among the heroes, or just generally - it remains to be definitively established, but I don't see why not, on the face of things). I just think your argumentation to that end is manifestly faulty, inaccurate when treating the details, and based on a flawed premise about how Ultra Instinct works (and on top of that, your attitude toward the discussion has been pretty poor so far).

Instead of trying to make up rules about how Ultra Instinct works to try to prove something that doesn't convince anyone, why not just try something a little more straightforward (if necessarily speculative) - namely, since Goku specifically reminisces about how great Black Freeza was back then, and yet Gohan's power repeatedly impresses him even having said that earlier, then that might well be evidence that Gohan is on a similar level of impressiveness?

We're waiting on more material to be able to say more, of course, but what's wrong with that idea?

[QuakingStar]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

[dragonball0900]

I do have to say that I did see plenty of people who were angry at the leaks showing Beast Gohan on par with UI Goku. On Twitter (mostly the spanish speakers, I know since I am spanish speaker myself), most of them complained at how illogical it was for a random power up like Beast being able to reach the same tier as UI and UE which were forms that Goku and Vegeta had to train all the time to obtain them. They don't like how Goku and Vegeta who got divine training for years were now caught up by a random power up from Gohan. And most are begging for UI Goku to one shot Beast Gohan next chapter since they assume Goku is not going all out in this chapter yet.

Most of them even place Ultimate Gohan/Piccolo and the Gammas as being between SSJ3 and SSG level rather than SSB level, and I did see a few people begrudgingly accept that Orange Piccolo got close to even SSB level (most seemed to accept him as being on par with SSB, but not more than that because they think that would be insane and illogical).

But with Beast Gohan, they usually had the idea that he reached at most at UI Sign level from the ToP but not more than that. At least until this recent chapter came around and debunked it. Some even thought he was just SSBKK level. But look at how wrong those people turned out to be. Now they are saying that the series is ruined, common sense is ruined, etc.

I do have to say, I always thought Beast Gohan being this strong was a possibility. I mean, this series is full of random power ups after all. It's nothing new. I do really like that Gohan has finally caught up with Goku and Vegeta once again.

SS3 tier lmao. Reminds me of the ridiculousness of some people when putting 17 there just because he fought SS3 Goku even though we have verbal confirmation that he was SSB tier by the end of the ToP by no other than Goku himself.

That actually seems to be the general consensus amongst them. Many people say 17 is equal to SSJ3 Goku due to their manga fight (and that the anime exaggerated his power level with feats that should not be taken seriously) and they also say Ultimate Gohan is somewhat stronger, above SSJ3 but below SSG. They would also usually give the Saganbo fight as evidence that Ultimate Gohan (and by extension, Ultimate Piccolo and the Gammas) is nowhere near SSB level.

There was someone who did believe Beast Gohan was UI level but when they told their friends about it, they called them crazy. But now it seems that user, as well as everyone who always believed Beast Gohan was that strong, has been proven right given the recent manga chapter.

[ZombieVito]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

The chapter also confirms Goten and Trunks are stronger.

I wonder if they can beat Namek Freeza in base now.

[Galan007]

The above discussion is interesting.

As I interpret it, MUI simply allows the user's body to move/react independent of conscious thought in battle situations. It doesn't have some intrinsic variable that *only* allows the user to dodge/avoid incoming attacks -- it is offensive/physical, just as much as it is defensive/non-physical.

Whis, for example, opted to physically block many of MUI Goku's attacks during their sparring session, instead of just dodging said attacks outright:

Spoiler:

Does that mean Whis wasn't actively using UI in those instances? Of course not(Beerus confirmed in the very same chapter that Angels are "always" in the UI state.) Does that mean Whis isn't still tierS above Goku? Of course not.

tl;dr
Gohan could very well be more powerful than Goku(I would honestly be surprised if he weren't), but Goku physically blocking his attacks, as opposed to dodging them, doesn't really 'prove' anything in and of itself, imo.

[QuakingStar]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

The chapter also confirms Goten and Trunks are stronger.

I wonder if they can beat Namek Freeza in base now.

I'm glad they have been training, the whole "they goof off, don't train and can't do anything but fusion" thing got stale long ago. They are also doing the failed fusion schtick too much now. I would like to see Goten and Trunks use SS2 and even SS3 just to further show they have been training.

[ssj3kakarot]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

Legit question: People actually thought TUI was stronger than MUI?

I mean, i understand the initial confusion, given TUI's showing against Gas. But that chapter was so straight forward.They ask if Goku's MUI is his strongest form. Goku replies something to the effect that he can't focus enough to fully utilize MUI so he needed to adapt to something that allows emotions. Essentially stating that MUI (when used properly, which Goku was admitting that he wasn't able to) is greater than TUI in every aspect.


But yes. I'm glad Beerus cleared that up as well!

[QuakingStar]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

Legit question: People actually thought TUI was stronger than MUI?

I mean, i understand the initial confusion, given TUI's showing against Gas. But that chapter was so straight forward.They ask if Goku's MUI is his strongest form. Goku replies something to the effect that he can't focus enough to fully utilize MUI so he needed to adapt to something that allows emotions. Essentially stating that MUI (when used properly, which Goku was admitting that he wasn't able to) is greater than TUI in every aspect.


But yes. I'm glad Beerus cleared that up as well!

Oh yeah, the same people who were saying that Ultimate Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo were not current SSB level and were not even current SSG level, or that Orange Piccolo was current SSB level at best, or that Gohan Beast was current SSB level at best, and I was looking at comments earlier on instagram, reddit, and tktok when browsing and they STILL think it and are vehemently trying SO hard to invalidate chapter 102's showing of Gohan Beast.

[ssj3kakarot]

Anyway.

It's nice to see Beerus and Whis confirm that Goku's current MUI is his strongest state of UI and it is NOT TUI. It's nice to see Goku essentially confirm that first before they even said anything. It is also funny seeing how mad this has some people lol

Legit question: People actually thought TUI was stronger than MUI?

I mean, i understand the initial confusion, given TUI's showing against Gas. But that chapter was so straight forward.They ask if Goku's MUI is his strongest form. Goku replies something to the effect that he can't focus enough to fully utilize MUI so he needed to adapt to something that allows emotions. Essentially stating that MUI (when used properly, which Goku was admitting that he wasn't able to) is greater than TUI in every aspect.


But yes. I'm glad Beerus cleared that up as well!

Oh yeah, the same people who were saying that Ultimate Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo were not current SSB level and were not even current SSG level, or that Orange Piccolo was current SSB level at best, or that Gohan Beast was current SSB level at best, and I was looking at comments earlier on instagram, reddit, and tktok when browsing and they STILL think it and are vehemently trying SO hard to invalidate chapter 102's showing of Gohan Beast.

I think people have a hard time accepting some of these power ups. Gohan does indeed have his "hidden potential," button pushed a lot in order to make him significant, sometimes when it doesn't seem to make any sense. Vegeta and Goku have literally been battling Broly, Granolah, Gas, training with Beerus and Whis, and Merus. Both of have been honing their skills and abilities under argubably the best teacher in the actualy universe. So most people have a hard time believing that all those years (years well spent) have just been surpassed because Gohan got upset and Piccolo got a magical wish granted. Regardless, its the show.

I think what would make it more digestible would be if Gohan trained with Whis (for example) and then had this exponetial growth. Freeza for example : zero to hero in 4 months because he's a prodigy amongts everyone. Ass pull? yes.But they had a back story. Piccolo's boost (which I 100% want Big Green to be back in the mix) seemed like an ass pull, just because why not.

Even better: Gohan in cell saga. What a weakling! But they train, harder then they ever have and it pays off, big time. Gohan surpasses everyone, and its believeable because of his "hidden potential" and because the hard work.

Dragon ball and Dbz were all about training to surpass limits. And yes, they had to grow the weaker characters at a much faster rate so they could utilize them, I get that asepct. But in Super, the training doesn't seem as important. They are training all the time and it doesn't really seem to be as impressive. Which i personally miss. Dbz Goku's training the space ship to Namek, shows up and just showcases this amazingly hard earned growth. That's relatable. So we enjoy those things as people.

I'm excited to have Gohan and Piccolo be hanging with the Goku and Vegeta and Broly. People getting upset need to just wait and see what questions will be answered over the next few chapters. It's all exciting when there's controversy, lol!

[QuakingStar]

Legit question: People actually thought TUI was stronger than MUI?

I mean, i understand the initial confusion, given TUI's showing against Gas. But that chapter was so straight forward.They ask if Goku's MUI is his strongest form. Goku replies something to the effect that he can't focus enough to fully utilize MUI so he needed to adapt to something that allows emotions. Essentially stating that MUI (when used properly, which Goku was admitting that he wasn't able to) is greater than TUI in every aspect.


But yes. I'm glad Beerus cleared that up as well!

Oh yeah, the same people who were saying that Ultimate Gohan and Ultimate Piccolo were not current SSB level and were not even current SSG level, or that Orange Piccolo was current SSB level at best, or that Gohan Beast was current SSB level at best, and I was looking at comments earlier on instagram, reddit, and tktok when browsing and they STILL think it and are vehemently trying SO hard to invalidate chapter 102's showing of Gohan Beast.

I think people have a hard time accepting some of these power ups. Gohan does indeed have his "hidden potential," button pushed a lot in order to make him significant, sometimes when it doesn't seem to make any sense. Vegeta and Goku have literally been battling Broly, Granolah, Gas, training with Beerus and Whis, and Merus. Both of have been honing their skills and abilities under argubably the best teacher in the actualy universe. So most people have a hard time believing that all those years (years well spent) have just been surpassed because Gohan got upset and Piccolo got a magical wish granted. Regardless, its the show.

I think what would make it more digestible would be if Gohan trained with Whis (for example) and then had this exponetial growth. Freeza for example : zero to hero in 4 months because he's a prodigy amongts everyone. Ass pull? yes.But they had a back story. Piccolo's boost (which I 100% want Big Green to be back in the mix) seemed like an ass pull, just because why not.

Even better: Gohan in cell saga. What a weakling! But they train, harder then they ever have and it pays off, big time. Gohan surpasses everyone, and its believeable because of his "hidden potential" and because the hard work.

Dragon ball and Dbz were all about training to surpass limits. And yes, they had to grow the weaker characters at a much faster rate so they could utilize them, I get that asepct. But in Super, the training doesn't seem as important. They are training all the time and it doesn't really seem to be as impressive. Which i personally miss. Dbz Goku's training the space ship to Namek, shows up and just showcases this amazingly hard earned growth. That's relatable. So we enjoy those things as people.

I'm excited to have Gohan and Piccolo be hanging with the Goku and Vegeta and Broly. People getting upset need to just wait and see what questions will be answered over the next few chapters. It's all exciting when there's controversy, lol!

Ultimate Gohan grew from his Buu Saga levels of power in far less than 48 mins while fighting SS Kefla, to the point he tied her. Vegeta in the U6 v U7 Saga says that Gohan still has more potential than them all. Gohan has always had the most Potential, the way they deal with him though is by having him not involved most of the time or have him weakened by slacking off. Another thing I just thought of is that Piccolo got his Potential Unleashed right? But he had also fused with Nail so it was Nails Potential also being Unleashed as well wasn't it? Besides that Piccolo trains constantly anyway. Gohan is just the Anakin Skywalker of the series minus the going evil, he has the most latent power and potential.