Broly versus Super Buu

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:02 pm

why would the anime say that if it wasnt true?

I don't think it was, actually, aside from the dub. I've seen a few people who've said it was in the original, I believe, but I'm not entirely sure of that. But even if it was in the original JP version of the anime it's still nonsense. Toei just fucked up is all. It is utterly impossible for Kid Buu to be stronger than Super Buu3 who is stronger than Super Buu 2 who is stronger than Ultimate Gohan who is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks who's around Super Buu's strength who is stronger than SSJ3 Goku who is stronger than Kid Buu. It's a logical loophole that doesn't work. The manga outright states that Kid Buu is more dangerous, nothing about being stronger.

When does Buu state that Super Buu is stronger?

I can't remember if it's after absorbing Gotenks or Gohan but either way he claims he's the strongest Majin ever. Super Buu has clear knowledge of Kid Buu and his power (he freaks when Vegeta tries to remove Mr. Buu's pod so there's no denying he has knowledge of Kid Buu) so if he says he's stronger he must be stronger.

Let's also not forget that Kid Buu is just Buu where as Super Buu has the power of two Kais augmenting him (the reduction effect from the Dai Kaioshin ceased when he changed from Fat to Super, that was the entire point of the shift). 5 + 1 + 1 =/= less than 5.

you're dealing with manga purists here

I'm far from a manga purist. But if it's literally impossible, even with Dragonball logic, then it's just impossible.

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:12 pm

Xyex wrote:*Cries*

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. Really, I don't.

Well, ok, maybe a little. I like Broly and threads and comments like these are why a lot of people don't. So, on to the reply.

Super Buu would kill Broly just by sneezing on him. Broly does not get stronger as he fights. He continued to power-up during movie 8 but it wasn't some "ZOMG his power will forever be increasing!" effect. He just didn't max out right away. His full power is around that of Perfect Cell but no higher.

As for SSJ2 Goku and Gohan fighting Broly, he never fought any SSJ2s. Gohan only used SSJ in movie 10 and Goku wasn't physically present (and also only an SSJ). Let's also not forget that Gohan was weaker in movie 10 than he had been at the Cell Games.

Finally, Kid Buu is not stronger than Super Buu. Kid Buu is slightly stronger than Majin Buu (when he's not pissed off) but he's weaker than all forms of Super Buu. This is directly shown in the series by actions and comments. Goku says he and Vegeta can't take Super Buu without fusing. Goku then says he can defeat Kid Buu with his full SSJ3 power.

That is all.

Actually, Broly's weaker than Perfect Cell, because Goku could beat him. But not that much. So, as you said, around.

Anyway, you made all the points I wanted to make.

In conclusion, don't believe everything you read on the internet kids. Unless I say it.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:28 pm

Then why does the english version say these things?

Why would the dub call Bardock a "brilliant scientist"? It's not true, but the dub tossed it in anyway.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:04 pm

I ASSUME that Majin Vegeta is stronger than Broly, and seeing as how Majin Vegeta couldn't defeat the weakest of the Buu's then surely Broly couldn't defeat the strongest form.

Super Buu>Fat Buu>Majin Vegeta>Broly

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:09 pm

The only thing that I keep thinking of is Broly's tendency to play around with his foes and not go straight for the kill. This would easily give Super Buu the time he needs to absorb Broly.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:15 pm

I think the greater question here is, what the hell would they do if Buu absorbed Broly.

Buu+Broly= All powerful, homicidal, regenerative, finely tuned machine of destruction.

djkalteraphine · Post by **djkalteraphine** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:16 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:I think the greater question here is, what the hell would they do if Buu absorbed Broly.

Buu+Broly= All powerful, homicidal, regenerative, finely tuned machine of destruction.

Ask him to do Math.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:21 pm

djkalteraphine wrote:Ask him to do Math.

I don't remember Buu absorbing Chaotzu.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:07 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:I think the greater question here is, what the hell would they do if Buu absorbed Broly.

Hmm, good question...

Well, I certainly have no idea.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:16 pm

Rocketman wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:I think the greater question here is, what the hell would they do if Buu absorbed Broly.
Hmm, good question...

Well, I certainly have no idea.

Point taken.

Kaioshin84 · Post by **Kaioshin84** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:27 pm

Buu with Broly absorbed would hardly be any crazier then Kid Buu already was. He was a crazy killing machine. Probably even worse then Broly. Kid Buu had no kind of restraint whatsoever. Buu with Broly would have been even stronger off course, but he hardly needed to be as he could already beat pretty much anyone. Off course if Super Buu absorbed Broly it might have had some effect on his character but not that much. Considering he already possessed the intellect and common sense of both Piccolo and Gohan which would clearly offset any insanity he might gain from Broly. AS for translation errors. Remember that even subs can have them although chances are less off course. Only if you can understand Japanese perfectly will you know exactly what characters said in the series the way it was originally intended by the makers, and even then it's highly likely there are still discrepencies in the series especially between the earlier sagas and the later sagas considering that they probably hadn't decided beforehand how many sagas they were going to make.

Daburcor · Post by **Daburcor** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:59 pm

I don't even factor movie characters in with the manga. All they are to me is (sometimes) more enjoyable filler.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:13 pm

I found this video? Is this right?

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_CcFj7BFb ... re=related

It says that Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:16 pm

Xyex wrote:*Cries*

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. Really, I don't.

Cuz you're like me, and you pray that a little rational thought can slow down the impending train wreck these types of threads often become?

Metrite wrote:In the anime it is stated numerous times that kid Buu is the strongest one, but you're dealing with manga purists here, so you'd better just forget trying to discuss any of this stuff.

I'm pretty sure that's in the dub. In the original, I only recall them saying Kid Buu was the most dangerous and/or difficult. Noone ever flat out says "most powerful." And really, it's just common sense. The only way to beat Super Buu with Gohan/Piccolo/the kids was with fusion. Goku and Vegeta don't just refuse to fuse against Kid Buu, the destroy their earrings. The anime makes it hard to tell by throwing in extra scuffles that make Goku look stronger than he should be. That's why, for debates like this, its best just to use the manga- Toei's focus wasn't on plot consistency, it was on padding out time. Their logic rarely goes beyond "wouldn't it be cool if...?"

As for the dub- similar to what I said about the anime. If we want to analyze Toriyama's reasoning, "what FUNimation writers" have to say means squat.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:48 pm

KingBroly wrote:I found this video? Is this right?

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_CcFj7BFb ... re=related

It says that Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku.

Yes.

"Mystic" Gohan easily smacked Super Buu around. Goku, even with SSj3, was afraid to fight Super Buu, and insisted that he and Vegeta fusing was the only way to beat him. But then he was confident later that he could beat Kid Buu.

EDIT:

Onikage725 wrote:The anime makes it hard to tell by throwing in extra scuffles that make Goku look stronger than he should be

While I agree it does make things a bit more confusing, I don't think SSj2 Goku's little bout with Buu was all that far-fetched. I've always figured Kid Buu to be about as powerful as pre-purge Fat Buu, and SSj2 Vegeta did okay against him. He was getting a boost from his "Majinization," sure, but all that did was get him even to Goku. Besides, it didn't take long before Goku had to go up to SSj3, anyway. It's more like that "bonus" SSj2 Goku vs Kid Buu fight was their warm-up.

KingBroly · Post by **KingBroly** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:51 pm

Thanks for clearing that up

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:33 pm

Even Daizenshuu 2 labels Gohan as stronger than Goku at the end of Z. It uses the words "saikyou no senshi" which translate into "the strongest fighter".

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:06 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote: While I agree it does make things a bit more confusing, I don't think SSj2 Goku's little bout with Buu was all that far-fetched. I've always figured Kid Buu to be about as powerful as pre-purge Fat Buu, and SSj2 Vegeta did okay against him. He was getting a boost from his "Majinization," sure, but all that did was get him even to Goku. Besides, it didn't take long before Goku had to go up to SSj3, anyway. It's more like that "bonus" SSj2 Goku vs Kid Buu fight was their warm-up.

I don't *just* mean that fight, though that is probably the biggest offender. My issue with it, such as it was, was with how outclassed Vegeta was when he fought Kid Buu. But Goku went toe to toe. I never thought that Vegeta would be weaker then than he was as a Majin, since Babidi simply states that he drew out Vegeta's latent powers (implying that the power was dormant within Vegeta, rather than an external boost tied to the spell itself). I can't imagine him forgetting how to tap into them later.

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:08 pm

KingBroly wrote:Who wins? I'm gonna go with Broly because he blew up a galaxy. Super Buu didn't.

I think if Buu tried to turn Broly into Candy, Broly would come back like Vegito and win.

Also, Broly gets stronger as he fights.

Broly wins!

Nope...Maes Hughes comes back from the dead and kills them both

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:14 pm

Onikage725 wrote:I don't *just* mean that fight, though that is probably the biggest offender. My issue with it, such as it was, was with how outclassed Vegeta was when he fought Kid Buu. But Goku went toe to toe. I never thought that Vegeta would be weaker then than he was as a Majin, since Babidi simply states that he drew out Vegeta's latent powers (implying that the power was dormant within Vegeta, rather than an external boost tied to the spell itself). I can't imagine him forgetting how to tap into them later.

Kid Buu was at "fighting an SSJ3" power, and wasn't willing to power down to face Vegeta in a fair match.[/fillerrationalizingmode]

Kanzenshuu

Broly versus Super Buu

Re: Broly versus Super Buu