Would a complete DBZ English redub be necessary?

[MasenkoHA]

"It's absurd to expect a redub simply because one dislikes a poorly adapted version.

Wanting a redub and expecting a redub are two different thing. I doubt Majin Buu ever expects Dragon Ball to get a redub.

. Be grateful that a redub was undertaken, allowing access to the unedited version.

One can be grateful that the subtitled Japanese version was legally released with an actual pre-Funimation fan doing the translations and still be miffed that the redub stayed as faithful to the original Ocean/Funi dub as close as possible only really fixing a few errors (and keeping others)

Otherwise, viewers would be left with either subtitled versions or awkward editing, with music changes between edited and uncut segments.

I'm willing to bet most of the fans here who would like (key word is lile not expect or demand) a redub are perfectly fine with watching the subtitled version.

[Majin Buu]

"It's absurd to expect a redub simply because one dislikes a poorly adapted version.

I don't think anyone here is "expecting" a complete redub to happen. Virtually everyone that has spoken to how below par Funimation's Z dub is has acknowledged that the redub ship has sailed.

EDIT: Ditto what Masenko said about my own thoughts on this.

Be grateful that a redub was undertaken, allowing access to the unedited version. Otherwise, viewers would be left with either subtitled versions or awkward editing, with music changes between edited and uncut segments.

Because people having to watch the show in its original Japanese form is such an awful thing isn't it .

In many countries, where only a few sentences may be lacking, a redub may not even be considered, despite poor translations like in the French dub."

The problem is those "few sentences" could be "Bardock was a brilliant scientist" levels of wrong- which by the way, goes beyond "poor translation" into outright altering the story. Something like that wouldn't be a "poor translation" since that scene has no equivalent dialogue of any kind in the source material.

Plus you act like it was just a line here and there that was mistranslated and not like, large swaths of dialogue that were at best mistranslated and at worst outright rewritten with the original intent lost. To say nothing of how often they inserted their own dialogue into scenes where there was no dialogue at all in the original.

Frankly, it feels like you're downplaying how bad those scripts are and why that's a problem. Like I said earlier, you're acting like the only problem with the Ocean/Funi/Saban dub was the visual censorship when that was only one of a couple problems with that dub.

If you are unhappy with the dub, then switch to the subtitled version

Did that about 20 years ago .

[JulieYBM]

I don't really think it matters. Who is a new dub going to be for? No new fans are going to sit through 444 episodes of an English dub of three thirty-plus year old cartoons. If they're going to sit through that many episodes, they will in all likelihood be interested in the work from a historical point of view, and therefore watch it in the original Japanese anyway.

[MasenkoHA]

I don't really think it matters. Who is a new dub going to be for? No new fans are going to sit through 444 episodes of an English dub of three thirty-plus year old cartoons. If they're going to sit through that many episodes, they will in all likelihood be interested in the work from a historical point of view, and therefore watch it in the original Japanese anyway.

And your average joe schmoe who needs to watch their anime in English usually watches the dub without a problem (and most of them just watch Kai for brevity anyways these days) . The manga is also available through ViZ for less than a $3 a month and keeps the story and intent intact even if it does have censorship and weird adaptation changes done by a pee doe file.

[JulieYBM]

I don't really think it matters. Who is a new dub going to be for? No new fans are going to sit through 444 episodes of an English dub of three thirty-plus year old cartoons. If they're going to sit through that many episodes, they will in all likelihood be interested in the work from a historical point of view, and therefore watch it in the original Japanese anyway.

And your average joe schmoe who needs to watch their anime in English usually watches the dub without a problem (and most of them just watch Kai for brevity anyways these days) . The manga is also available through ViZ for less than a $3 a month and keeps the story and intent intact even if it does have censorship and weird adaptation changes done by a pee doe file.

Exactly, and we'll inevitably get a remake, and god knows that's what the majority of people will want to watch, anyway.

[Scsigs]

I've said it before, but if they were going to redub DBZ with more faithful scripts, they would've done it 20 years ago when they were polishing up the dub for the Ultimate Uncut releases, as well as rerecorded the first 67 episodes with the Texas cast & when they were remixing the English dub dialogue with the Japanese score. It sucks that they didn't take the opportunity to do that, but I don't expect much from them on this front.

[MasenkoHA]

I've said it before, but if they were going to redub DBZ with more faithful scripts, they would've done it 20 years ago when they were polishing up the dub for the Ultimate Uncut releases, as well as rerecorded the first 67 episodes with the Texas cast & when they were remixing the English dub dialogue with the Japanese score. It sucks that they didn't take the opportunity to do that, but I don't expect much from them on this front.

At the very least, for quality control reasons, they should have done a complete redub of the Ginyu, Frieza, and Garlic Jr sagas. Use the old 1999 scripts as a base to save money if they want but get rid of the more cringe dialog and fix the most egregious errors and have the entire cast completely re-record their dialog. Then for the Cell saga at least do a partial redub to fix things like "General Tao" and continue to redub some of the characters like Sabat's Vegeta who was still being "We have Brian Drummond at home" at that time.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

At the very least, for quality control reasons, they should have done a complete redub of the Ginyu, Frieza, and Garlic Jr sagas. Use the old 1999 scripts as a base to save money if they want but get rid of the more cringe dialog and fix the most egregious errors and have the entire cast completely re-record their dialog. Then for the Cell saga at least do a partial redub to fix things like "General Tao" and continue to redub some of the characters like Sabat's Vegeta who was still being "We have Brian Drummond at home" at that time.

I wonder how much redubbing it would have took to convince most fans there was any redubbing at all if getting rid of Dale Kelly and Chris Sabat's 2005 voice clashing with 1999 Sean Schemmel wasn't enough?

[MasenkoHA]

At the very least, for quality control reasons, they should have done a complete redub of the Ginyu, Frieza, and Garlic Jr sagas. Use the old 1999 scripts as a base to save money if they want but get rid of the more cringe dialog and fix the most egregious errors and have the entire cast completely re-record their dialog. Then for the Cell saga at least do a partial redub to fix things like "General Tao" and continue to redub some of the characters like Sabat's Vegeta who was still being "We have Brian Drummond at home" at that time.

I wonder how much redubbing it would have took to convince most fans there was any redubbing at all if getting rid of Dale Kelly and Chris Sabat's 2005 voice clashing with 1999 Sean Schemmel wasn't enough?

Right. In my experience the average fan isn't even aware there any redubbing at all. They only ever seem to notice the switch from an electro synth score to an orchestral score (and sometimes they don't even notice that or don't care). They might has well have bit the bullet and completely re-recorded production season 3. As long as they didn't do any major recast (see fans kicking and screaming at Gohan and Frieza getting recast in Kai) I don't think too many viewers would realize it's not the exact same dub they watched on Cartoon Network in 1999

[TechExpert2021]

I don't really think it matters. Who is a new dub going to be for? No new fans are going to sit through 444 episodes of an English dub of three thirty-plus year old cartoons. If they're going to sit through that many episodes, they will in all likelihood be interested in the work from a historical point of view, and therefore watch it in the original Japanese anyway.

The new dub will be for those who hate FUNimation's dubs of DBZ (in a similar fashion to the Ocean/Westwood dub) and/or want an English dub with accurate scripts. The new dub will also be for hardcore English-speaking purists of the original Japanese version of DBZ.

[Scsigs]

At the very least, for quality control reasons, they should have done a complete redub of the Ginyu, Frieza, and Garlic Jr sagas. Use the old 1999 scripts as a base to save money if they want but get rid of the more cringe dialog and fix the most egregious errors and have the entire cast completely re-record their dialog. Then for the Cell saga at least do a partial redub to fix things like "General Tao" and continue to redub some of the characters like Sabat's Vegeta who was still being "We have Brian Drummond at home" at that time.

Hence why my idea release has a complete rerecording of the English dub from scratch with more accurate scripts for the English dub with JP music audio track & keep the shitty old dub on the track with the US music.
I remember that guy on Twitter several weeks ago who had a long ass thread comparing DBZ dub & Kai dub clips & somehow Z's dub came out on top for him everytime. What didn't help his case is that a lot of the things he pointed out that he liked about the Z dub was the added flavor text the dub script writers added, whereas Kai was more in-line with the Japanese. Now, could Toriyama have stood to have added more dimension to the characters, or expanded upon their motivations? Sure, but that's not what he chose to do when writing the manga. And if you don't like the more simplistic characterizations or motivations than the dub had, you don't like Dragon Ball. I'm sorry. The dub writers tried to improve upon what was already good, successful, & worked. If you can't accept what Toriyama originally wrote, then you don't like Dragon Ball. IMO, it also makes some of the intended themes & lessons work better because you see these very simplistic motivations as to why the characters do & say what they do, but then they get passed them & find new motivations to do what they do. And, I know people want more depth to characters in media, but not always in life do real people have deep reasons or motivations to do what they do. So in media, if people have less complex reasons or motivations, then it's not unrealistic or bad.
Vegeta had the motivation to train because of Goku. He had the motivation to attain Super Saiyan because of Goku. He had the motivation to raise Trunks because of Goku. Goku & his friends defeating Vegeta wounded his pride & that motivated him to get better. Then he had a midlife crisis, but made up for it. That's Vegeta's character & if you don't like it, you don't like Dragon Ball.

Sorry, I got on a ranty tangent there.

I wonder how much redubbing it would have took to convince most fans there was any redubbing at all if getting rid of Dale Kelly and Chris Sabat's 2005 voice clashing with 1999 Sean Schemmel wasn't enough?

Right. In my experience the average fan isn't even aware there any redubbing at all. They only ever seem to notice the switch from an electro synth score to an orchestral score (and sometimes they don't even notice that or don't care). They might has well have bit the bullet and completely re-recorded production season 3. As long as they didn't do any major recast (see fans kicking and screaming at Gohan and Frieza getting recast in Kai) I don't think too many viewers would realize it's not the exact same dub they watched on Cartoon Network in 1999

I think most people don't notice or know or even care about it because FUNimation didn't & still doesn't really advertise it. Especially because that was the era before social media where people heavily scrutinize releases of media like they do today. What's more is that the Orange Bricks, where the polished & uncut 1999 dub got a wide release with as many episodes as possible per set, were put out. While people had the older DVDs or VHSes of Z, those were the first time FUNi put out all of the show in cheaper, more convenient packaging. All of the dialogue was also rerecorded by the cast that were in the video games at the time, who took over for the later appearances of the characters if they were recasts in Z. So, I think a lot of people were just used to those voices by the time those came out. And, the voices weren't too different from the ones that were there originally when the Texas cast was the one dubbing the episodes when they picked up the dub in 1999, so I think they just downplayed that aspect.
Kai, however, they were flaunting the recasts, especially since a lot of them were so jarring coming off the original Z, DB, & GT dubs. Even if you like the recasts, 1 thing that you can't deny is how jarring they can be to the ears of someone who's used to the older actors' voices. Even when the recasts provide a much better & accurate portrayal for a character (Freeza), the actor is much better at acting than the previous one (Bulma), or the actor can better fit the character's age & soft-spoken nature (Gohan), if someone's more used to the older cast, it'll definitely be weird for them to just accept a new voice. I think people who don't like the recasts are valid to an extent, but there are reasons why they were recast. Linda Young shouldn't have been cast as Freeza in the first place, imo, & was only cast because she could match the Canadian actress closely. Chris Ayres had a much better take on the character & we have a much better portrayal of the character nowadays. Tiffany Vollmer wasn't necessarily a bad cast as Bulma, but she left FUNimation to do other work & Monica Rial does a better job, ngl. And, even though I much like Stephanie Nadolny's voice for kid Gohan & Goku, I can't deny that even if I think she doesn't do much to differentiate the voice from Monkey D. Luffy, Colleen Clinkenbeard's not a bad recast.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The new dub will be for those who hate FUNimation's dubs of DBZ (in a similar fashion to the Ocean/Westwood dub)

That's a myth, there's never been any proof that the Westwood dub was created to serve the people who hated Funimation's dub. Canada was airing Funimation's Z dub until episode 167/182 and Brian Drummond confirmed he was returning as Vegeta as early as May 2000 when the UK hadn't even switched over to Funimation's inhouse dub so kids in Europe were not even aware of Sean Schemmel, Chris Sabat or any of those actors at the time.

There's never been an official explanation for why the Westwood dub was created, but the best guess we can make, based on all we know is that there was never anything in the contracts Funimation and Ocean signed in the 90s that would prohibit the latter from creating their own English dub and AB Groupe or Cartoon Network UK for whatever reason chose to stop buying episodes from Funimation (maybe they were too expensive, taking too long to deliver, etc).

I say this as someone that loves the Westwood dub. It started up in a hurry so Ocean could sell an alternate English dub internationally, evidently their business arrangement with Funimation gave them access to their scripts, video tracks, etc and Ocean had library music and an established cast to pull from so there wasn't much in the way of pre-production meaning they could get a dub up and running and sold very cheaply.

or want an English dub with accurate scripts. The new dub will also be for hardcore English-speaking purists of the original Japanese version of DBZ.

But why create such a dub when not enough people will care, or the people who want that experience already being satisfied with watching in Japanese? Purists by definition aren't going to watch an English dub because all that matters to them is the original source material.

Even the Kai dub, which is vastly more faithful is not as loved as the original Z dub, because most of the fans that want to watch in English have what they want and don't want something better.

At best a faithful redub would appeal to fans who lie somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I'm one of those fans who values the intended experience of watching Dragon Ball in Japanese but can enjoy a good dub, but I'm in the minority, and know that most fans wouldn't sit through hundreds of redubbed episodes because they're already satisfied with one of thevtwo options.

[JulieYBM]

I don't really think it matters. Who is a new dub going to be for? No new fans are going to sit through 444 episodes of an English dub of three thirty-plus year old cartoons. If they're going to sit through that many episodes, they will in all likelihood be interested in the work from a historical point of view, and therefore watch it in the original Japanese anyway.

The new dub will be for those who hate FUNimation's dubs of DBZ (in a similar fashion to the Ocean/Westwood dub) and/or want an English dub with accurate scripts. The new dub will also be for hardcore English-speaking purists of the original Japanese version of DBZ.

That's neither financially feasible, nor does [relatively speaking] anyone really care. Crunchyroll knows there is no audience for this, FUNimation knew that there was no audience for this, Toei Animation knows that there is no audcience for this.

[gokaiblue]

It's been said before, but at best, a new dub of Z would just be the Kai dub with new performances from the current cast. There's no financial gain from a new dub of Dragon Ball Z, however, as much as we'd like it.

[TechExpert2021]

I'm sure they do, but they're in the minority, I'd go as far as to say the vast minority. I think the fact we've had so many threads about a redub tells us there are certainly fans that want it. The question is are there enough of those fans for companies like Crunchyroll to care, and I think the answer is no. Us here in our little Kanzenshuu bubble don't represent the majority of Dragon Ball fans worldwide.

Most English-speaking Dragon Ball fans are happy with the 1999-2003 Texas dub and 2005 redub. Many of them are of course casual fans and it's easy to think because they don't engage in online Dragon Ball discourse that we outnumber them, but make no mistake we don't. Our voices are just heard more because we're more passionate about this franchise, but by and large we are still just a vocal minority.

The same thing might apply to FUNimation's dub of Dragon Ball GT, right? That dub sucked so hard (less or more than their 1999 Z dub) and it is primarily one of the reasons why Dragon Ball GT is hated (and at times unfairly) within the English-speaking fandom.

Their 2001 dub of Dragon Ball is less hated but it is still far from being an acceptable English dub.

Why have the orange bricks been the best selling Dragon Ball home release for so long despite the endless criticisms they've got on these forums? Because most fans were satisfied with them. Hell people were satisfied with the 2013/14 Blu-Rays even though they received almost as much backlash on Kanzenshuu and other places where hardcore fans congregate. And again thats because companies like Funimation don't care about what we say on websites your average Joe who buys the season sets in Walmart doesn't use or is aware of. Unless that large majority of casual fans make the same noise about wanting better home releases, wanting a redub, etc that we make the powers that be are never going to hear it.

From what I heard, FUNimation's OG DB Blue Bricks DVD sets and their DBGT Green Bricks Season DVD sets are less problematic compared to their DBZ Orange Bricks Season DVD sets. The Orange Brick Season DVD sets simply cropped the DBZ footage from its original 4:3 aspect ratio to 16:9, just to cash in on the rise of HD TV at the time. As you said, it still satisfies fans who want to legally own DBZ on home video. But still, I wish for a better DBZ home video release in the States.

No. Not because the old Funimation dub is good, it's absolutely not, but because we're too far separated from the original airings for it to matter anymore. There would be no money in it for Crunchyroll, and with network TV losing viewers each year there wouldn't be much point in broadcasting it since they wouldn't be able to make anything from it going into syndication.

The fact that traditional TV networks are losing viewers annually is attributed to streaming services recently taking over traditional TV as the most popular and preferable way to watch TV programs, including anime. Most people nowadays prefer streaming over traditional TV. So, Crunchyroll will only make anything from the dub if they distribute it via streaming services or, to a lesser extent, home video.

Nowadays, many television networks in the United States (save for Adult Swim with their revived Toonami block) are no longer interested in airing anime. Syndicated broadcast stations stopped airing anime on Saturday mornings because the FCC now strictly mandates all syndicated broadcast stations to air a designated amount of educational programming. Fans mostly watch anime via streaming services and home video releases nowadays. They have little to no interest in watching anime that is currently on the airwaves.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The same thing might apply to FUNimation's dub of Dragon Ball GT, right? That dub sucked so hard (less or more than their 1999 Z dub) and it is primarily one of the reasons why Dragon Ball GT is hated (and at times unfairly) within the English-speaking fandom.

Their 2001 dub of Dragon Ball is less hated but it is still far from being an acceptable English dub.

Yes GT is Funimation's worst Dragon Ball dub by far. The voice actors have a little more experience, although aside from Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat none of the cast put in any effort, the scripts aren't as inaccurate but the biggest failing of Funimation's GT dub is its understanding of what GT is, which it completely botches by trying to make it even edgier, more hardcore than Dragon Ball Z. The tone of Funi GT clashes so much with the more light hearted space adventure that GT is supposed to be, especially when you watch with the original sweet nostalgic-sounding Tokunaga score, especially during the narration. The dub was made with the replacement score in mind, but said replacement score is just dull, bland generic metal, which again treats the show with even less integrity. The Blue Water dub of GT may have the odd cheesy line and sometimes meh voice acting, but it at least respects what the show was, its the only way of watching GT in English for me.

Original Dragon Ball has okay-ish voice acting and being made exclusively with the original score in mind with the calm grandfatherly feel of Brice Armstrong's narration does give it a certain sense of authenticity, but the scripts still have a lot of errors, which I mentioned earlier. Removing all the mysticism, spoiling the reveal Piccolo and Kami were not from Earth, pandering to Z fans with mentions of "power levels", Black's made up sister, the implied feud between Crane Hermit and Tao Pai Pai all hold back what could have been a perfectly fine dub.

From what I heard, FUNimation's OG DB Blue Bricks DVD sets and their DBGT Green Bricks Season DVD sets are less problematic compared to their DBZ Orange Bricks Season DVD sets. The Orange Brick Season DVD sets simply cropped the DBZ footage from its original 4:3 aspect ratio to 16:9, just to cash in on the rise of HD TV at the time. As you said, it still satisfies fans who want to legally own DBZ on home video. But still, I wish for a better DBZ home video release in the States.

Blue and Green Bricks still have DNR applied, although certainly not to the same extent as Z, but the lack of cropping is definitely a plus. We've all wanted a great home release of Dragon Ball Z but every year it looks less and less likely. Sadly I think the ship has probably sailed on that now, just like a redub.

[MasenkoHA]

The same thing might apply to FUNimation's dub of Dragon Ball GT, right? That dub sucked so hard (less or more than their 1999 Z dub) and it is primarily one of the reasons why Dragon Ball GT is hated (and at times unfairly) within the English-speaking fandom.

Fans keep saying this but GT wasn't very well liked even before Funimation got their hands on it. That was the whole reason for their "You think you know GT?" approach at a time where they were starting to be somewhat more faithful with their dubs like Fruit Basket and Yuyu Hakusho and even the original Dragon Ball to a lesser extent

And if Dragon Ball Z can still be well liked after everything Funimation did to it, that says more about GT than anything. It's not like their approach to GT was radically different from Z. Just somewhat edgier because their target audience was a little older now. The pre-Funimation audience didn't really like GT. And the Funimation audience didn't really like GT even after Funimation reversioned it to pander to them.

Maybe the problem was GT?


.

Syndicated broadcast stations stopped airing anime on Saturday mornings because the FCC now strictly mandates all syndicated broadcast stations to air a designated amount of educational programming. .

That federal mandate has existed since 1991. It has nothing to do with anime not appearing in public television anymore.

[AliTheZombie13]

Fans keep saying this but GT wasn't very well liked even before Funimation got their hands on it. That was the whole reason for their "You think you know GT?" approach at a time where they were starting to be somewhat more faithful with their dubs like Fruit Basket and Yuyu Hakusho and even the original Dragon Ball to a lesser extent

And if Dragon Ball Z can still be well liked after everything Funimation did to it, that says more about GT than anything. It's not like their approach to GT was radically different from Z. Just somewhat edgier because their target audience was a little older now. The pre-Funimation audience didn't really like GT. And the Funimation audience didn't really like GT even after Funimation reversioned it to pander to them.

Maybe the problem was GT?

I mean, GT isn't liked all that much in Latin America either, despite our dub being very faithful to the source.

But it doesn't reach "STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR! GRAND TOUR!!! AHHHHH THIS SHOW IS SHIT!!!" level as it does in the English-speaking fandom. We at least can still say although we didn't like the show very much, we don't hate it with a burning passion, and it does have positives. We have fond memories of it, especially because of the phenomenal soundtrack... You will never hear a person who grew up with the English Dub of GT say the same thing.

[MasenkoHA]

You will never hear a person who grew up with the English Dub of GT say the same thing.

Go on a YouTube comments page with Step Into The Grand Tour or the Menza score. You'd be surprised how many people do seem to like that crap. It's got nothing on the love Rock The Dragon or the Team Faulconer score receive but it definitely has fans.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Fans keep saying this but GT wasn't very well liked even before Funimation got their hands on it. That was the whole reason for their "You think you know GT?" approach at a time where they were starting to be somewhat more faithful with their dubs like Fruit Basket and Yuyu Hakusho and even the original Dragon Ball to a lesser extent

And if Dragon Ball Z can still be well liked after everything Funimation did to it, that says more about GT than anything. It's not like their approach to GT was radically different from Z. Just somewhat edgier because their target audience was a little older now. The pre-Funimation audience didn't really like GT. And the Funimation audience didn't really like GT even after Funimation reversioned it to pander to them.

Maybe the problem was GT?

I mean, GT isn't liked all that much in Latin America either, despite our dub being very faithful to the source.

But it doesn't reach "STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR! GRAND TOUR!!! AHHHHH THIS SHOW IS SHIT!!!" level as it does in the English-speaking fandom. We at least can still say although we didn't like the show very much, we don't hate it with a burning passion, and it does have positives. We have fond memories of it, especially because of the phenomenal soundtrack... You will never hear a person who grew up with the English Dub of GT say the same thing.

I think before Super came GT WAS loved by Latin America. It was the very last piece of Dragon Ball media EVER back then. Toriyama or not this brought GT some love and cred. And the opening and ending are EXTREMELY famous in Latin America. Now that there is Super, even as Shoddy as Super is, GT just cant compare anymore sadly.