Is Super on its way out?

[sangofe]

I don't think they'll go past EoZ, they don't want to "overwrite" GT I think. Plus, the characters are at their strongest now.

To me, I think that going the yearly movie route for a few years would be a good idea. A new series isn't "needed", from a financial POV and a yearly movie can still generate hype and sell merchandise. To add to it, make those movies non-canon or even let them take place in different eras. Kinda like how the original movies were sort of alternate takes from the main storyline. It would feel fresh and with the entirety of DB, Z, GT and Super at their disposal, they could do A lot with the creative freedom it provides.

As a side project, they could of course keep animating SDBH.

I'd rather have spin offs anime series with fresh takes than a yearly movie. Or OVAs.

[kemuri07]

Well, part of the reason why this idea of ending it at 28th Tournament is superior, is because that is the original ending Toriyama planned for the story. Super is supposed to be part of Toriyama's original story. It is not a sequel, it is not a continuation of the original story; it is retroactively part of the original story, going in-depth into the 10-years time gap present in the original story.

Therefore, it only makes sense for Super to share the ending of the original story.

Anything beyond the 28th tournament does not fall within Super's realm of interests. Super from its inception was not interested in continuing the original story, that still ended with Goku leaving with Uub at the tournament. Super from the beginning was interested in exploring this long time gap of 10 years that the original story just glossed over without any care.

Timeline-wise, Super is retroactively part of the original story and should thereby share its ending (Goku leaving with Uub).

These are the things that DBS contradicts EOZ:

- Goku not meeting Bulma for 5 years, when they were all together in ToP and Moro chapter. (Both Pan and Bra were born and aged). Pan is 4 years old in EOZ.
- Goten and Trunk being lazy. We see Goten and Trunks are heroes in DBS Super Heroes and now the latest chapter they want to train to have the power to protect.
- Gohan not fighting in the EOZ tournament since he retired. In DBS we see Gohan does train and improved his Beast form.

Pretty much none of these are contradictions.

- Goku is established to be forgetful in both mediums. In just the latest chapter, he forgot about Pan's existence (in case you wanted to just put all the blame on Toei as usual). It is not unreasonable for Goku to forget that he met Bulma before.

- There's still at least 1 year between Super Hero and End of Z and people can change in 1 year. How many hard-working people became lazy during the Lockdown year, for instance? How is it a contradiction if Goten and Trunks simply changed over the course of 1 year of peace?

- Again, Gohan could have lost interest in fighting during the time gap between Super Hero and EoZ.

Like I always say:

Super will never go past EoZ, and I most certainly don't want Super to recontextualize EoZ to fit in any of its bullshit. As far as I'm concerned, EoZ is fine the way it is. "Updating" EoZ feels like a slap in the face to Z's legacy, and it will absolutely be worse for it. Just leave it alone.

Posts like these are funny, because they are so melodramatic and over-the-top.

Relax, the EoZ that you loved as a kid back in the 1990s is not going away just because some minor references to Beerus or Ultra Instinct are added or some other minor addition like that.

I’d argue that any minor addition exactly proves how pointless it would be. If the only purpose is to have Goku name drop Beerus, then that’s kind of lame. The way I see it is this: DBZ has a pretty solid ending already, and just adding Super references due to some misguided notion of “completion” doesn’t do anything for the story or fans.

Just leave it alone. It’s as simple as that.

[SupremeKai25]

Just leave it alone. It’s as simple as that.

Actually, it's not as "simple" as that.

With the Super revelation that Uub/Buu had God ki from absorbing the Dai Kaioshin, it seems obvious that the concept of God ki will be brought up in a conversation with Uub.

As was established in the Moro arc, where you had the Dai Kaioshin teaching Uub how to give his God energy to help Goku.

[LoganForkHands73]

I'm starting to wonder if I'd prefer a telegraphed "this is definitely the end for real" finale or the more inauspicious kind of sayonara that Chapter 103 may serve as (especially in light of the news that Toriyama added that last shot of Piccolo waving farewell to us). While I don't really think it's the end just yet, I'd honestly be quite satisfied if this was it, as far as serialised stories go. Black Freeza is the only narratively important loose end (trivial fluff like "Vegeta visiting Sadala" is really low on the list of priorities in comparison), but if Neko Majin Z is anything to go by, the prospects of Freeza still knocking around in space and possibly forcing Vegeta back under his thumb may still be on the cards. Maybe after Goku left to train Uub (and Neko Majin Z), Vegeta went out to challenge Freeza again, got his ass beat, and reluctantly accepted that offer of becoming commander (the 'supreme' part being knocked off for his previous insubordination) of the Freeza Force.

[Mr Baggins]

Ever the bingo dancing negotiator, Vegeta decides to work again under Freeza part-time as a bargain to keep his home untouched by the Freeza Force. His goons are still allowed to visit as tourists though.

[Mustafa]

Like SupremeKai25 said, it's almost certain they will animate at least Moro and Granola eventually, I would also assume they'd make a television retelling of the Broli and Superhero movies. The "Super" brand is not going anywhere soon I think.

However, there is something to be said about how Superhero timeskips to only a year or so before the EoZ... I mean, sure, they can still cram some stories in that time period, but it is very weird to me that they changed the status quo when they could just... keep the timeline somewhat vague and milk the 10 year gap as much as possible. I want to say that it feels like the "Super" storyline is getting closer and closer to end... but why would they do this when Dragon Ball makes so much money? I also doubt that they will get past EoZ, especially after Toriyama's passing.

I don't think it's impossible for Dragon Ball Super to keep going, but as much as I appreciate the work of many other artists involved with the series, the main guy is now gone, and the future of the series is uncertain, particularly on the creative side. I assume that the brand will phase as soon as they get to the point where they can no longer keep Super going, assuming that it will happen, and then they will either just go back to the Z branding, because that's what's iconic, or they will just use a generic "Dragon Ball" branding

yeah i agree especially with the last part. mostly for me its just that i hope they dont fumble the landing and maybe have one or two more interesting storylines / meaningful arc's if that makes sense. And also that its not rushed, rarely goes well

[Mustafa]

I won't mind seeing a retelling of the 28th Tenkachi Budokai as a way to end the series.

Well, part of the reason why this idea of ending it at 28th Tournament is superior, is because that is the original ending Toriyama planned for the story. Super is supposed to be part of Toriyama's original story. It is not a sequel, it is not a continuation of the original story; it is retroactively part of the original story, going in-depth into the 10-years time gap present in the original story.

Therefore, it only makes sense for Super to share the ending of the original story.

Anything beyond the 28th tournament does not fall within Super's realm of interests. Super from its inception was not interested in continuing the original story, that still ended with Goku leaving with Uub at the tournament. Super from the beginning was interested in exploring this long time gap of 10 years that the original story just glossed over without any care.

Timeline-wise, Super is retroactively part of the original story and should thereby share its ending (Goku leaving with Uub).

These are the things that DBS contradicts EOZ:

- Goku not meeting Bulma for 5 years, when they were all together in ToP and Moro chapter. (Both Pan and Bra were born and aged). Pan is 4 years old in EOZ.
- Goten and Trunk being lazy. We see Goten and Trunks are heroes in DBS Super Heroes and now the latest chapter they want to train to have the power to protect.
- Gohan not fighting in the EOZ tournament since he retired. In DBS we see Gohan does train and improved his Beast form.

not gonna lie, they could just maybe try and retcon some things, instead of trying to force themselves to fit some inconsistencies, but keeping most of everything the same ofc. makes more sense imo

[taikufuru]

I don't know why people care about the epilogue, even after all these years.

Any Dragon Ball animated material, even Toyotarō's manga, works as an adaptation from Akira Toriyama's original work, in the same way that superhero films adapt comics.

Dragon Ball Z adapted the manga's epilogue in its own way, to its continuity, even adding/changing some scenes.

I don't see why Dragon Ball Super (anime and manga) can't adapt that epilogue in its own way.

Bulma can remain young, Kuririn bald and Goku become Super Saiyan Blue, this in no way affects the original manga and the original Dragon Ball Z TV series. No inconsistencies, just adaptation.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't think they'll go past EoZ, they don't want to "overwrite" GT I think.

People act like if they did their own Post-Z sequel that GT will somehow be erase. Super already overwrites GT and it takes place in its own timeline. They can do a post-Z era story and have nothing to do with GT.

[Mustafa]

I don't think they'll go past EoZ, they don't want to "overwrite" GT I think.

People act like if they did their own Post-Z sequel that GT will somehow be erase. Super already overwrites GT and it takes place in its own timeline. They can do a post-Z era story and have nothing to do with GT.

exactly. idk why ppl are worried if super gets to that point, like its not going to ruin the series or sumn, type shit

[Hellspawn28]

Toei considers Super and GT to be their own thing. Much like how Toho views the Showa, Heisei, etc as their own thing with the Godzilla movies. What happens in one thing won't affect another.

[Cipher]

I'm starting to wonder if I'd prefer a telegraphed "this is definitely the end for real" finale or the more inauspicious kind of sayonara that Chapter 103 may serve as (especially in light of the news that Toriyama added that last shot of Piccolo waving farewell to us). While I don't really think it's the end just yet, I'd honestly be quite satisfied if this was it, as far as serialised stories go. Black Freeza is the only narratively important loose end (trivial fluff like "Vegeta visiting Sadala" is really low on the list of priorities in comparison), but if Neko Majin Z is anything to go by, the prospects of Freeza still knocking around in space and possibly forcing Vegeta back under his thumb may still be on the cards. Maybe after Goku left to train Uub (and Neko Majin Z), Vegeta went out to challenge Freeza again, got his ass beat, and reluctantly accepted that offer of becoming commander (the 'supreme' part being knocked off for his previous insubordination) of the Freeza Force.

I'd be surprised if it didn't come back, but if if it didn't, Chapter 103 would be a fine ending.

Definitely in keeping with Dragon Ball's easy-going and unpretentious nature, and fitting with the added meta context.

[coola]

Toei considers Super and GT to be their own thing. Much like how Toho views the Showa, Heisei, etc as their own thing with the Godzilla movies. What happens in one thing won't affect another.

Except Godzilla 1954, until Shin and Minus One, it was always considered first part, even in Millenium, where each movie was it's own seperate canon (Except two Mechagodzilla movies)

[Jord]

To answer the topic question. Super has basically been dead for 2 years now. We got a single movie a few years after the anime ended and since then...nothing animated. No adaption of the manga, no new movie, no adaptions or merchandise of manga characters. Zip.

Now Toei announced Daima. A whole new direction for the franchise, instead of investing in more Super content. Super's done.

[SupremeKai25]

To answer the topic question. Super has basically been dead for 2 years now. We got a single movie a few years after the anime ended and since then...nothing animated. No adaption of the manga, no new movie, no adaptions or merchandise of manga characters. Zip.

Now Toei announced Daima. A whole new direction for the franchise, instead of investing in more Super content. Super's done.

Uhm, did you miss an entire new movie released in 2022 as well as the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Uhm, did you miss an entire new movie released in 2022

2022 was a couple years ago, just as he said.

as well as the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime?

That's a different series from Dragon Ball Super.

[SupremeKai25]

Uhm, did you miss an entire new movie released in 2022

2022 was a couple years ago, just as he said.

as well as the Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime?

That's a different series from Dragon Ball Super.

No, he said, "we got a single movie a few years after the anime ended" and that is false. We got TWO movies. Broly in December 2018 and Super Hero in June 2022. Reminder that the Anime ended in March 2018. That's 9 months between the ending of the Anime and the Broly movie.

That's a different series from Dragon Ball Super.

It literally has "Super" in the name. It is clearly a sequel to the Tournament of Power, with primarily-Super characters and forms. It is, for all intents and purposes, a series branded "Super". The Anime anyway, I don't care about the videogame.

[Jord]

Then I mixed up the Broly release by a few months. Fact is, since the end of the anime we only got a single movie and that is already 2 years ago, which is a huge gap in entertainment. No other animated Super project has been created or anything with nothing coming in the foreseeable future. No merchandise of manga characters. The manga has paused as well. The series petered out.

And SDBH is a separate series. Counting it as a Super series is a huge stretch. Even it uses the name super in the title, which isnt indicative since DB has used Super in it's titles since way back with it's numerous video games like Super Butoden, Super Saija Densetsu, Super Dragon Ball Z, etc.

But heck SDBH uses GT elements. We should consider it as a continuation of GT as well then. It also uses Cooler. It should be counted as a continuation of the Cooler movie as well. Amazing how that movie got it's own sequel series then.

[SupremeKai25]

Then I mixed up the Broly release by a few months. Fact is, since the end of the anime we only got a single movie and that is already 2 years ago,

End of the Anime: March 2018.

Broly movie: December 2018.

Super Hero Movie: June 2022.

That is two movies since the end of the Anime. Two. I genuienly do not understand what is so complicated here.

No other animated Super project has been created or anything with nothing coming in the foreseeable future. No merchandise of manga characters. The manga has paused as well. The series petered out.

Sure, if you ignore all the marketing and promotion with Super characters that was done for Sparking Zero a few days ago, which not only disproves your claim that the Super brand is "dead", but also your claim that people only care about DBZ. Not only Sparking Zero is not branded as "DBZ", but simply as "Dragon Ball", but currently half if not more of its roster is comprised of Super characters, Super forms, and legacy characters in their Super outfits.

As for Super's manga on hiatus, for the 1000th time, you people need to stop looking at hiatuses as signs of the apocalypse and start encouraging them. Mangaka should be taking hiatuses more regularly, how many more mangaka need to pass before you people get the memo? I don't understand why you haters are celebrating Toyotaro going on hiatus as a big "W" that "proves that Super is dead", instead of simply saying "Oh cool, Toyotaro is taking some time to rest, more mangaka should do this!" Like I assure you, Toyotaro going on hiatus is not the gotcha W that you think it is.

So No, Super clearly remains popular, iconic, and easily-recognizable as a brand, and your strange hate-crusade against Super is neither here nor there.

[super michael]

Toyotaro should take all the rest needed in my opinion, then when he comes back to writing DBS he will be fresh.
Remember this someone health is more important than wanting to read the manga.

I heard manga writers job is really hard, they need to work many hours and even not able to sleep enough at night. Some are only able to sleep for a few hours, not anywhere close enough to 8 hours.

When Toyotaro returns from his break, I will read his manga for sure.


I don't believe DBS is over, whatever new chapter they make I am sure it will be good.