Was Goku screaming at Gohan to kill Cell out of character?

[Yuji]

It's a scene many point to when they want to criticise how willingly Goku seems to be to let opponents go, especially in modern Dragon Ball. But wouldn't this one scene be the exception and not the rule? It seems out of character for Goku not to be excited at the prospect of fighting Cell again, considering he was already defeated and clearly outmatched.

I've got a few reasons why we can justify this:
1. Goku himself wasn't fighting. He trusts Gohan but he trusts more in himself. When he's in control, he's more at liberty of making callous decisions.
2. He doesn't trust Cell to take the loss without doing something reckless, but this can be applied to every other villain, which brings me to...
3. He seems to genuinely hate Cell, perhaps more-so than any other villain outside of Zamasu. There's something viscerally disgusting to Goku about artificial power.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'm going to say no, Goku's choice to let Gohan face Cell was based on:

• Goku didn't believe he was capable of defeating Cell himself
  • Gohan having surpassed Goku slightly and having hidden powers Goku lacked would have also been a factor
• Gohan would go into the fight with his father's mindset. Goku's shock when Piccolo tells him this was not Gohan's attitude supports this

Goku probably would have killed Cell if he thought he could and probably realized by this point unlike Vegeta there was no point sparing him because it was inevitable stronger foes would come around (we know he thought this as his was his reason to remain dead for 7 years).

[SupremeKai25]

It's a scene many point to when they want to criticise how willingly Goku seems to be to let opponents go, especially in modern Dragon Ball.

A complaint that I cannot understand. Goku NEVER did this in Modern Dragon Ball.

He straight up killed Frieza. He also tried to kill Goku Black while he was seemingly unconscious, the most cold-blooded and merciless Goku's ever been. He forced Moro to return into captivity, he wanted to lock him up again. He only let Frieza go because Beerus authorized his return after the essential role he played in the TOP.

Goku in Super is much more careful with his opponents, compared to DBZ Goku, who let Vegeta and Frieza go pretty much wherever they wanted.

I've got a few reasons why we can justify this:

I think it makes sense that Goku wanted Cell to die. He knows from Android 16's sacrifice that Dr. Gero built his Androids with internal explosive devices. Cell is an Android, and he is built by Dr. Gero, why wouldn't Cell also have an internal bomb device? If anything, it's weird how no one else ever mentioned that possibility. Seems like yet another weak writing from the Cell saga.

3. He seems to genuinely hate Cell, perhaps more-so than any other villain outside of Zamasu. There's something viscerally disgusting to Goku about artificial power.

Which is strange, since Moro was so much more successful than Cell. Like it's actually crazy how much more successful as a villain Moro was than Cell. Yet, Goku was fine with Moro getting locked up again, while he didn't want to lock up Cell.

I've mentioned this in the past: I've find it interesting how Cell and Zamasu are pretty much the only two villains that Goku wanted dead. I don't believe it's just "stolen power", because Moro's power was also stolen and yet Goku wanted him locked up. Coincidentally, they are also the only two villains who used time travel.



Anyway, as per usual, I don't think DBZ handled this plot point well. I don't find it believable that no one else would be concerned about Cell pulling a 16, nor do I find it believable that Gohan would suddenly turn into a sadist. I do, however, find it believable that Goku would be concerned about Cell pulling some shady move, one of the few points in Z where Goku acts cautiously and wisely.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

compared to DBZ Goku, who let Vegeta and Frieza go pretty much wherever they wanted.

I wasn't sure whether to mention Namek but on that note it's important to keep in mind Goku gave Freeza enough of his power to leave the planet because Freeza was desperate. That's more to do with Goku's naivety though, like how he let Raditz go when he promised to change.

I believe if Cell pulled a similar tactic Goku would have fallen for it. On Namek he was about to leave knowing Freeza would be caught in the explosion when he could have rescued him. He only had second thoughts because Freeza pleaded with him.

Goku always wants to do what's right but he lacks the standard moral compass most people (especially "Heroes") have and can be easily persuaded he's in the wrong, as was the case with Freeza on Namek.

[SupremeKai25]

compared to DBZ Goku, who let Vegeta and Frieza go pretty much wherever they wanted.

I wasn't sure whether to mention Namek but on that note it's important to keep in mind Goku gave Freeza enough of his power to leave the planet because Freeza was desperate. That's more to do with Goku's naivety though, like how he let Raditz go when he promised to change.

I believe if Cell pulled a similar tactic Goku would have fallen for it. On Namek he was about to leave knowing Freeza would be caught in the explosion when he could have rescued him. He only had second thoughts because Freeza pleaded with him.

Goku always wants to do what's right but he lacks the standard moral compass most people (especially "Heroes") have and can be easily persuaded he's in the wrong, as was the case with Freeza on Namek.

I call it "character development". Goku felt pity on Frieza, but Frieza remained scummy until the end. Goku underestimated the galaxy technology and Mecha Frieza returned to Earth with a vengeance.

Goku learned the lesson and didn't want to repeat that mistake in the Cell saga. He doesn't repeat that mistake. People point to the Moro arc as Goku making that same mistake, but he didn't.

When he saved Frieza on Namek, he just let Frieza go wherever he wanted. He knows that Frieza can survive in space and return to his homeplanet, where he can plot revenge. With Moro, Goku didn't want Moro to just go wherever he wanted, he wanted to lock him up again.

People always ignore that the condition for Moro's survival was that he return to the Galactic Patrol jail, where he cannot threaten anyone. That's quite different from Goku giving Frieza enough energy to leave Namek and then just return to his evil slaver empire.

If Cell pleaded for mercy, like Moro did, then Goku would tell Gohan to knock Cell unconscious so that they can lock him up. He obviously wouldn't let Cell go freely since the guy eats people for breakfast, that would be insane.

[AliTheZombie13]

About Goku and Freeza, remember: Before Freeza got sliced in half, Goku withdrew from the fight saying he was satisfied and told Freeza to go away and not bother any more innocents.

This wasn't another case of "Oh, he's strong, I want to fight him again." Goku willingly let Space Hitler go because he was stronger. I don't know if it is naivety or Toriyama not taking into account the implications of this decision for Goku to assume just because Freeza couldn't beat him in a fair fight, he couldn't resume his space business of genocide without targeting Earth, or he wouldn't come back with reinforcements, or he wouldn't just pull a Bardock on Earth since Goku can't breathe in space.

Back on topic, though: I'm not sure if it's out of character specifically, or if it's even a case of character development since he does say he should've killed Freeza when he had the chance, there's been a whole-ass discussion about this already, but it's definitely contrasting with his other decisions. Letting Freeza go, letting enemies build themselves up and power up to 100%, letting Gero create the Artificial Humans, etc.

Gohan could've simply spat back, "No dad, I'm not satisfied. And when I'm satisfied, I'll let him go so he can live in shame and not bother any more innocents since his warrior pride or whatever is shattered and he can't do anything anymore, right? That's what you taught me!"

It might not be out of character, but it comes off as hypocritically amusing, if not frustrating.

[MasenkoHA]

Something that hasn't been brought up is Goku did kill Freeza in Future Trunk's timeline and was going to kill him in the main timeline if Future Trunks hadn't shown up first.

It seems like Goku did learn his lesson tnat you can't just let genocidal villains go. He got lucky with Piccolo, who calmed down and then reformed and Vegeta, who gave up his ambition to destroy the earth to focus on fighting Goku in a rematch and sorta reformed. Not so lucky with Freeza who tried to blow up the whole earth. Keeping that in mind, it makes sense for Goku to yell at Gohan to not make his mistakes.

Of course then there'a the problem with Majin Boo, but we can chalk it up to Goku was supposed to be weaker even as Super Saiyan 3 and the "I totes could have defeated him when he was fat" was a sloppy retcon to explain how he was able to stand toe to toe with the pure Majin Boo. But you can also argue the new leason he had to learn was "Don't expect these damn millennials to take care of things"

[AliTheZombie13]

But you can also argue the new leason he had to learn was "Don't expect these damn millennials to take care of things"

And then he goes into expecting the damn millennials to take care of things again with Oob.
Then again, you can also counter-argue that he was just grooming Oob into being the next strongerest whatever, but I digress.

[Zephyr]

My more serious answer:
I think Goku wanting Cell dead after losing and being outclassed is consistent with him being more pragmatic once he's lost the glorified "tournament match" he treats these life and death situations as. Him letting Vegeta go once the latter has been completely neutralized doesn't make his use of the Genki Dama once he lost the fight inconsistent, same with Freeza. He pushes as far as he can, and will push instead for the pragmatic option at the last moment once it's clear that there's no more fun to be had, only death. With Cell, he wasn't even in the fight anymore, and I think this is one of the few instances where he's left to watch someone else do his own usual bullshit. Bro doesn't like it when the shoe's on the other foot.

Maybe he does also hate Cell similar to the way he hated Zamasu. I've seen it said before that both have basically stolen Goku's power and abilities. And they're both green. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My less serious answer:
Gohan vs. Cell remixes both Goku vs. Vegeta and Goku vs. Freeza. Goku recognized this, but Gohan's Namek-esque Super Saiyan transformation misled him into thinking it was only Goku vs. Freeza being remixed. In truth Cell acted more like Vegeta than Freeza when pushed to the brink.

Once Freeza is outclassed, he fires a blast at Namek's core. After seeing that this did not instantly destroy the planet, Goku calls him out for wanting to fight, too, else he'd have simply fired at the planet again. After Goku further humbles him and tries to leave, Freeza still doesn't blow the planet up. Dude wanted a fight till the bitter end. Cell is not like this.

When Goku matches Vegeta and makes him bleed, the latter flies into the sky and charges a blast to fire at the planet, goading Goku with the dilemma of "dodge it and the planet is gone". Goku claps back with a bigger return blast that goes back into Vegeta. Vegeta then lands and does some desperate shit that ends fun time. Cell is like this.

Sicko Mode™ Gohan is exactly the self-insert vicarious Son that Goku thought would appreciate the Senzu toss. As a result, Gohan wanted to prolong Cell's suffering, the same way Goku wanted to shred Freeza's pride. After Gohan transforms, Goku is grinning the whole time, up until Cell starts doing "the Vegeta thing". When Cell charges his Kamehameha up, Goku calls him a monster. After Gohan blasts one back into Cell, Goku says not to let Cell get desperate. This is because Goku recognized the Vegeta-ing where Gohan didn't. Goku is coaching his son that "no, for real, this is the time to end things, the fun tech has all been exhausted". But Gohan is like "no coach, this is my Freeza moment!" But it wasn't a Freeza moment at all, it was a Vegeta moment. Gohan mixed up what fight's beats were getting remixed for him.

[Koitsukai]

Something that hasn't been brought up is Goku did kill Freeza in Future Trunk's timeline and was going to kill him in the main timeline if Future Trunks hadn't shown up first.

I was looking for this, thank you. He learned his lesson, it took him a few bumps in the head but he learned it, I don't know why people think learning and growing is out of character. I guess some folks think characters are set in stone and must have limited range of action like the king on a chess board.

Cell is Freeza 2.0, with that in mind, Goku pressing Gohan to finish off NewFreeza, makes total sense. Besides, it wasn't immediately after somebody got the edge on Cell either, it was after Cell broke his own rules and introduced new ones prving he is as slimey as his mother.

Chronogically, it works too. It'd be odd if Goku starts off his journey being a pest beggin people to go for the kill, to end up being a dick that lets Freeza go many times.

About not wanting to spare Cell for a rematch... why would he want to fight Cell when there is a bigger fish called Wand--Gohan?

[MasenkoHA]

But you can also argue the new leason he had to learn was "Don't expect these damn millennials to take care of things"

And then he goes into expecting the damn millennials to take care of things again with Oob.
Then again, you can also counter-argue that he was just grooming Oob into being the next strongerest whatever, but I digress.

I know Goku said that "you'l be the earth's new protector" bit to Oob but it was such a throwaway line, I don't know why Toriyama even bothered.

It seemed obvious Goku just wanted to fight Oob and the earth having a new protector was an afterthough. It's not like the planet was in any present danger when Goku whisked Oob away to train.

Plus depending on how you feel about GT as a potential future (inb4 anyone mentions Super, Super can't even jive with Z's ending, I don't care that GT can't happen in Super's continuity) we know Goku discards the whole Oob as the new protector thing and loses interest in Oob as soon as he got what he really wanted (a fight with Oob)

[AliTheZombie13]

Depending on how you feel about GT as a potential future

If we're going to factor in shows written after the original manga like GT and Super, then Goku didn't learn anything about letting Space Hitlers go with Freeza, considering how he nearly did it again in RoF and then did it for real in the ToP. At least he gets better/remains consistent in GT, where he tries to kill Baby at every possible opportunity.

[SupremeKai25]

If we're going to factor in shows written after the original manga like GT and Super, then Goku didn't learn anything about letting Space Hitlers go with Freeza, considering how he nearly did it again in RoF and then did it for real in the ToP. At least he gets better/remains consistent in GT, where he tries to kill Baby at every possible opportunity.

Again with this? Goku killed Frieza in RoF and was in no position to decide Frieza's fate after the ToP. Beerus authorized Frieza's resurrection. If Goku tried to kill Frieza, he would have defied Lord Beerus.

Goku in Super has never let an opponent get away scots-free.

[The Monkey King]

Goku went through something called "character development" during the original manga (something DBS doesn't understand)

After Freeza forced his hand on Namek Goku learnt that some beings are beyond redemption and must be put down for good, like MasenkoHA said Goku killed mecha Freeza and Kind Cold in F.Trunk's timeline.

Goku absolutely tried to kill Cell outright with his IT Kamehameha and was not going "WAKU WAKU!" When Cell regenerated, he was shocked and worried.

Goku screaming at Gohan to kill Cell makes Perfect sense and in the Buu Saga Goku managed to have his cake and eat it too by wishing to reincarnate Kid Buu into a good person so he could fight him again (one of the few selfish wishes Goku ever made on the Dragon Balls)

This betrayal of his character development is why modern Goku is such a badly written character to watch sometimes, Resurrection F and the Moro arc's climax are a spit in the face to who he was in the original series.

"WAKU WAKU Freeza! You almost surpassed my decades of training, including being trained by the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE by doing God knows what for 4 months!!?? YES please leave the planet and TRAIN even more and come back for a rematch!!"

"What's that Whis I should actually kill Moro who keeps telling me he's an evil sack of shit!? Hmmmmmm Okay! WHAT he fused with the Earth itself and became a living bomb! How did such a thing happen!!"

The fact that people are even questioning Goku's character from the original manga because of Super makes me question if Dragon Ball should have even come back at all.

There's still hope that the DBS manga gets cancelled, Daima is a nice send off and Dragon Ball and Goku can lay dormant once again.

[Yuji]

It's a scene many point to when they want to criticise how willingly Goku seems to be to let opponents go, especially in modern Dragon Ball.

A complaint that I cannot understand. Goku NEVER did this in Modern Dragon Ball.

He straight up killed Frieza. He also tried to kill Goku Black while he was seemingly unconscious, the most cold-blooded and merciless Goku's ever been. He forced Moro to return into captivity, he wanted to lock him up again. He only let Frieza go because Beerus authorized his return after the essential role he played in the TOP.

Goku in Super is much more careful with his opponents, compared to DBZ Goku, who let Vegeta and Frieza go pretty much wherever they wanted.

I've got a few reasons why we can justify this:

I think it makes sense that Goku wanted Cell to die. He knows from Android 16's sacrifice that Dr. Gero built his Androids with internal explosive devices. Cell is an Android, and he is built by Dr. Gero, why wouldn't Cell also have an internal bomb device? If anything, it's weird how no one else ever mentioned that possibility. Seems like yet another weak writing from the Cell saga.

3. He seems to genuinely hate Cell, perhaps more-so than any other villain outside of Zamasu. There's something viscerally disgusting to Goku about artificial power.

Which is strange, since Moro was so much more successful than Cell. Like it's actually crazy how much more successful as a villain Moro was than Cell. Yet, Goku was fine with Moro getting locked up again, while he didn't want to lock up Cell.

I've mentioned this in the past: I've find it interesting how Cell and Zamasu are pretty much the only two villains that Goku wanted dead. I don't believe it's just "stolen power", because Moro's power was also stolen and yet Goku wanted him locked up. Coincidentally, they are also the only two villains who used time travel.



Anyway, as per usual, I don't think DBZ handled this plot point well. I don't find it believable that no one else would be concerned about Cell pulling a 16, nor do I find it believable that Gohan would suddenly turn into a sadist. I do, however, find it believable that Goku would be concerned about Cell pulling some shady move, one of the few points in Z where Goku acts cautiously and wisely.

Moro didn't steal Goku's power, though. Cell was composed of his cells and Zamasu literally stole his body. Maybe it's easier for him to handwave Moro off as not only was his battle power as an old man already far superior to Cell's, it wasn't his power directly that he was using.

I'm guessing it's his pride. "I've worked so hard against all obstacles to get this strong and you think you can just take it for yourself? Fuck you." Once Moro absorbs Merus' strength, he also seems far more willing to kill him, probably because now he actually has a reason to be offended by his stolen strength, as UI was something he was working toward and it definitely rubbed him the wrong way to see Moro just rip it off.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Cell is Freeza 2.0

Character-wise? Not really. Cell has Freeza's DNA but he isn't bigoted or sadistic like him and didn't really care about conquering the Earth or other planets. He's like Goku but evil and with a cool villains design as all he wants is to fight stronger opponents and test his limits.

[SupremeKai25]

U WAKU Freeza! You almost surpassed my decades of training, including being trained by the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE by doing God knows what for 4 months!!?? YES please leave the planet and TRAIN even more and come back for a rematch!![/b]"

Why are we blaming Goku for Gogeta's decision? Gogeta is not Goku, he's an entirely different being. As demonstrated by Base Vegito in the Goku Black arc, a Base Fusion is stronger than the fusées' top form. From Gogeta's perspective (NOT Goku), it makes sense to spare Frieza. Frieza should logically stand no chance against Gogeta.

"What's that Whis I should actually kill Moro who keeps telling me he's an evil sack of shit!? Hmmmmmm Okay! WHAT he fused with the Earth itself and became a living bomb! How did such a thing happen!!"

But there is character development compared to DBZ. DBZ Goku let Vegeta go away scots-free, instead of having Krillin detain him and lock him up. DBS Goku wanted Moro to get locked up again so that he couldn't cause further harm.

Super Goku, aka Toriyama's Goku, is not a lawful good hero, but that doesn't mean that he likes killing defeated opponents either. He is however far more cautious than his DBZ self.

[Koitsukai]

Cell is Freeza 2.0

Character-wise? Not really. Cell has Freeza's DNA but he isn't bigoted or sadistic like him and didn't really care about conquering the Earth or other planets. He's like Goku but evil and with a cool villains design as all he wants is to fight stronger opponents and test his limits.

I meant the threat posed, not the character, one is clearly taller than the other.
It's a similar kind of danger, specially when cornered, one that needs to be extinguished ASAP. Took Goku a while to learn that fact about Freeza, and this scene shows his growth in that regard.

[The Monkey King]

U WAKU Freeza! You almost surpassed my decades of training, including being trained by the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE by doing God knows what for 4 months!!?? YES please leave the planet and TRAIN even more and come back for a rematch!![/b]"

Why are we blaming Goku for Gogeta's decision? Gogeta is not Goku, he's an entirely different being. As demonstrated by Base Vegito in the Goku Black arc, a Base Fusion is stronger than the fusées' top form. From Gogeta's perspective (NOT Goku), it makes sense to spare Frieza. Frieza should logically stand no chance against Gogeta.

I'm referring to Goku inviting Freeza to leave and train some more during their fight in RoF.

Spoiler:

[SupremeKai25]

U WAKU Freeza! You almost surpassed my decades of training, including being trained by the STRONGEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE by doing God knows what for 4 months!!?? YES please leave the planet and TRAIN even more and come back for a rematch!![/b]"

Why are we blaming Goku for Gogeta's decision? Gogeta is not Goku, he's an entirely different being. As demonstrated by Base Vegito in the Goku Black arc, a Base Fusion is stronger than the fusées' top form. From Gogeta's perspective (NOT Goku), it makes sense to spare Frieza. Frieza should logically stand no chance against Gogeta.

I'm referring to Goku inviting Freeza to leave and train some more during their fight in RoF.

Spoiler:

You mean the movie that concluded with Goku killing Frieza?