Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:13 am

Majin Buu wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:46 am
Adamant wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:28 am ...you silly kids really need to be a bit more aware of what the general accessability and quality of fansubs in the late 90s actually was before talking out of your asses about what your "weeb" boogeymen would and wouldn't be interested in.
Yeah, I feel there's some biased sentiments being expressed by people who weren't part of the English speaking fanbase back then.
Yeah. I got into the VHS fan sub during the very end of the era. I do remember many of the old school fans were still active when I got into the series during the start of the 2000s. It wasn't that hard to find things. I was also a fan of fan subs of other titles before I got into Dragon Ball because I had fan sub tapes of Gamera 2-3, Ultraman Tiga & Ultraman Dyna, and action movies from Hong Kong. Heck, I even had fan subs of the Digimon movie before it came out in theaters (The first one with Greymon and Our War Games).
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 7:52 am The internet was 120 percent absolutely a thing in the early 2000s when the subtitled dvds were being released by Funimation. This was the age of internet chat rooms like AOL and Yahoo Messenger, torrent programs like Kazaa, and fan sites galore.
It seems like a big common misconception that the Internet was not a mainstream thing until the middle or even late 2000s. The Internet was already a decade old in 2000, and had over 4 million users in 1996. Unless you were like Jay from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, the Internet was a household thing during the peak of DBZ on TV.
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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:41 am

Yeah, I think it should have been translated as God, although I'm not losing any sleep over it not having been. I think Viz handled stuff like this the best. When they introduce the character, they just say God, driving the point home to the audience exactly as it would have been in Japanese. Remember that a lot of characters' reactions to hearing this character mentioned for the first time is shock and awe. "Goku's going to see GOD?" That means something. "Goku's going to see Kami?" means nothing. But in general, when it came to titles like this, Viz would use both, and I think that's the best way to thread the needle. "Kaio-sama, the Lord of Worlds." Perfect.

Also, I find it interesting whenever the Eastern and Western theological divides of the word "god" is brought up. Yeah, in the greater context of Dragon Ball, Kami-sama is just one low-level god among a pantheon of diverse beings. But all of that is added in later. In his initial context? When the character is introduced, he is an old man in white flowing robes and a cane who lives in the clouds gazing down on his beings and who fights against the devil. The green alien man shenanigans aside, I argue Kami-sama is very much evocative of a distilled, theme park, Saturday morning cartoon version of the Judeo-Christian monotheistic God, just the thing a Japanese author would introduce into his fantasy story to give it an exotic but recognizable flair. That's almost certainly why he's called Kami-sama with no other modifier or specifier. He's not Lord of Worlds or God of Lord of Worlds or God of Destruction. He's just God. (Yes, he is later *occasionally* called God of Earth when it's contextually necessary, but, again, that's later, and even then it's not part of his direct address the way Kaioshin is.)

So, yeah, I definitely think translating his title is the best way to get all of that across.
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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 12:42 pm

OMG It's Gaffer Tape! I missed you! Loved your Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon review!


To be fair, I cant blame any dub that was NOT A DVD dub. All the dubs that had ONLY TV as a release have the excuse that they couldnt afford to piss off any parents.

When the show became ultra mighty popular in Latin America it started to get away with more stuff, like Videl being an anagram for Devil and Mr Satan. Mr Roshi's antics were the thing THAT FINALLY got the show pulled from Cartoon Network, which then just switched the demographic to adults and put DBZ on Adult Swim.

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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by GTx10 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:21 pm

I think they should have translated it. Personally whenever the character of "Kami-Sama" shows up I Personally call him "Lord god." I have enough knowledge to know that 1) What "Kami-Sama" could mean and 2) this character is a god and not the Abraham related God. Also I like translations, in my subs.

Reading a bunch of transliterated gibberish is stupid to me. Your Sun Fist/attack over Taioken as it were. Or my personal favorite "King Kai Fist." :D
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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by taikufuru » Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:36 pm

This fear of religious protests, which could have a major impact on the showing of the series, is completely understandable.

Around the 1990s/2000s, TV shows in my country (Brazil) openly said that Yu-Gi-Oh! they were part of a satanic ritual and this ended up influencing many parents.

The ideal would be to translate Kami-Sama to "God" and keep the meaning for dialogues and jokes that discuss his existence.

But I think it wouldn't be so bad to "circumvent" this impasse, translating it into Guardian (of the Earth) or something like that.

I think the Brazilian dub of Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters did this based on Funimation scripts, if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:41 pm

GTx10 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:21 pm I think they should have translated it. Personally whenever the character of "Kami-Sama" shows up I Personally call him "Lord god." I have enough knowledge to know that 1) What "Kami-Sama" could mean and 2) this character is a god and not the Abraham related God. Also I like translations, in my subs.

Reading a bunch of transliterated gibberish is stupid to me. Your Sun Fist/attack over Taioken as it were. Or my personal favorite "King Kai Fist." :D
I think the best idea to keep the name intact and translate it properly would be THE LORD, just THE LORD. Not Lord God or Lord Kami. THE LORD.

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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by GTx10 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:33 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:41 pm
GTx10 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:21 pm I think they should have translated it. Personally whenever the character of "Kami-Sama" shows up I Personally call him "Lord god." I have enough knowledge to know that 1) What "Kami-Sama" could mean and 2) this character is a god and not the Abraham related God. Also I like translations, in my subs.

Reading a bunch of transliterated gibberish is stupid to me. Your Sun Fist/attack over Taioken as it were. Or my personal favorite "King Kai Fist." :D
I think the best idea to keep the name intact and translate it properly would be THE LORD, just THE LORD. Not Lord God or Lord Kami. THE LORD.
While that would of worked I somehow feel that would of caused eye rolling or raising more so than lord god. I guess Guardian is the best way to go for Funi's Dub which they seem to be using more. I guess Master would of got the point of across too. The Master and Mr. Popo rolls off the tongue.
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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:36 pm

GTx10 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:33 pm
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:41 pm
GTx10 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:21 pm I think they should have translated it. Personally whenever the character of "Kami-Sama" shows up I Personally call him "Lord god." I have enough knowledge to know that 1) What "Kami-Sama" could mean and 2) this character is a god and not the Abraham related God. Also I like translations, in my subs.

Reading a bunch of transliterated gibberish is stupid to me. Your Sun Fist/attack over Taioken as it were. Or my personal favorite "King Kai Fist." :D
I think the best idea to keep the name intact and translate it properly would be THE LORD, just THE LORD. Not Lord God or Lord Kami. THE LORD.
While that would of worked I somehow feel that would of caused eye rolling or raising more so than lord god. I guess Guardian is the best way to go for Funi's Dub which they seem to be using more. I guess Master would of got the point of across too. The Master and Mr. Popo rolls off the tongue.
I just told you they Lord God is too controversial or if I didnt I am now, and now I am telling you Guardian loses the God point.

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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by GTx10 » Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:46 pm

So "lord god " is less problematic than "THE LORD?" I disagree on that. Both have Abrahamic god connotations. A god can be a guardian and our old green Namekian fits the bill of a protecter god more than anything else.

It's all context my man. Master works too, or the holy one. The great one.
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Re: Should the official subtitles have translated Kami-sama

Post by Tian » Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:54 pm

GTx10 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:46 pm It's all context my man. Master works too, or the holy one. The great one.
The All Mighty could be an option as well. It has been used in the European Portuguese dub (Todo Poderoso).
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