Which English dub terms are legit translations and not just Funi shit

[Cure Dragon 255]

A thread all about Dragon Ball,after which will come a 2 month break and which dub terms from the North American dub are NOT Funimation nonsense.

I can come up with...

Kakarot. I really hated to admit this one. Especially because Vegetto makes it OBVIOUS Kakarotto was the correct choice... but is it? A Spain dub fan told me its the legit intended translation. I tried to argue... but as little sense as it makes, keeping it literal is NOT always the right choice. Like if we used Japanese without the knowledge of intention Digimon should be pronounced Dejimon and not what Toei intended for the english version. It is also used in Castillian Kai.

Saiyan. But pronounced "Correctly" as Sigh an. This one cant be fully attributed to Funimation. Its Bandai toy term that caught on (You will be mega surprised or not at how big a role the toys play in the dub writing. When I return I will probably pursue some discussion) But it is a fully natural translation of Saiyajin. Spain will use this one for Kai.

Chiaotzu. A surprisingly inspired term that surprised came from funimation. He's named after Jiaozi and thus that's his dub name.

There, A grand total of... 3. Whoopee. The only other one I could sorta give them is Krillin is just Kuririn said extremely fast and with a Lin at the end because Shaolin. This name absolutely predated Funimation so no. Adaptations that make sense but are not actual translations dont count so no "Solar Flare"

[Vegetto95]

Kakarot. I really hated to admit this one. Especially because Vegetto makes it OBVIOUS Kakarotto was the correct choice... but is it? A Spain dub fan told me its the legit intended translation. I tried to argue... but as little sense as it makes, keeping it literal is NOT always the right choice.

I mean, if we really wanna be be pedantic here, probably the most sensible English spelling of "Kakarotto" would be "Cacarrot" lol

The only other one I could sorta give them is Krillin is just Kuririn said extremely fast and with a Lin at the end because Shaolin. This name absolutely predated Funimation so no.

While I will always say "Kuririn" and will never use "Krillin" even if you put a gun to my head... it's STILL somehow closer and more accurate than, say... "Clearin" (I think that was from one of the European dubs? Can't remember which), or similarly the one that was on almost EVERY piece of Japanese merchandise from the 80s and 90s... "Klilyn"...

Yeeeaaah... I don't think they understood the assignment...

[Cure Dragon 255]

Kakarot. I really hated to admit this one. Especially because Vegetto makes it OBVIOUS Kakarotto was the correct choice... but is it? A Spain dub fan told me its the legit intended translation. I tried to argue... but as little sense as it makes, keeping it literal is NOT always the right choice.

I mean, if we really wanna be be pedantic here, probably the most sensible English spelling of "Kakarotto" would be "Cacarrot" lol

The only other one I could sorta give them is Krillin is just Kuririn said extremely fast and with a Lin at the end because Shaolin. This name absolutely predated Funimation so no.

While I will always say "Kuririn" and will never use "Krillin" even if you put a gun to my head... it's STILL somehow closer and more accurate than, say... "Clearin" (I think that was from one of the European dubs? Can't remember which), or similarly the one that was on almost EVERY piece of Japanese merchandise from the 80s and 90s... "Klilyn"...

Yeeeaaah... I don't think they understood the assignment...

That sounds like Poop in Spanish. It already did as Kakarot but now its clearer and awfuler.

Also, the first LatAM dub used "Cachito" which is just about the corniest dub name ever.

[M16U3L2015]

Spain will use this one for Kai.

Curiously, use the translation Saiyan in Spanish is incorrect because it only works in English, due to the suffix "-an" that only applies in the English language.

An accurate translation, but one that personally does not sound right, is Saiyano, because the suffix "-no" is one of the gentilics used in the Spanish language.

[nineko]

"Clearin" (I think that was from one of the European dubs? Can't remember which)

He was named "Crili" in the Italian dub.

That sounds like Poop in Spanish. It already did as Kakarot but now its clearer and awfuler.

Likewise, the Italian dub removed the second "k" and made him "Kaarot" with an unnecessarily long "a", probably to avoid an assonance to poop, indeed.

[MasenkoHA]

Define legit

With King Kai they just translated the oh in Kaioh and left Kai alone. It comes with its own problems (王 is apparently gender neutral so it's understandable Son Goku would assume Snake Princess could be Kaioh, more idiotic for Goku to think Princess Snake could be KING Kai)

Also Bulma is forever in the middle ground of technically wrong but officially correct because of the creator's own misunderstanding and Funimation and Simmons are justified in using it

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Don't forget "Spirit Bomb". On paper it sounds like something Funimation made up, but when you break down the Japanese name "Genki Dama" it still gets the point across:

• Genkai = Health, energy, vitality
• Dama = Ball, Bullet, etc

So we see "Genki" is accounted for because it refers to various elements of spirituality. Maybe you could argue "Spirit Ball" would have worked better, but as Funimation already used that for Yamcha's Sōkidan they needed an alternative. The move is effectively a bomb though as it explodes when it hits your opponent, so nothing is lost.

[TheGreatness25]

Not sure what makes something "legit." "Frieza" is not technically wrong, just looks silly. Same goes for "Vegito." They could make a case for "Bulla" if they really wanted to (though, "Bula" would be more appropriate).

Where's the line drawn? People would always bash how Funimation pronounced "Saiyan," and yeah, I get it, but do people also say "Bebi" and "Pahn" and "Uron," or is it because of the word that "Saiyan" is a pun on?

And then, that brings us to the question of what's more "correct"--keeping the pun or trying to translate the Japanese version? What about spelling? You can make the same argument about "Kakarot" or "Kakarrot" ("Cacarrot") and "Jiren" ("Geran") as you can make about why "Frieza" is wrong.

Anyway, this is the same conversation that's been happening for years and the added vulgarity seems to invite more bashing than constructive conversation.

[dragonmagico]

A cool add on question would be what bad translations came from toei and ether funi(or harmony gold in a few cases) weren't allowed to change them or didn't know to change them because early on their trusted toei bad translations too much

[MasenkoHA]

Not sure what makes something "legit." "Frieza" is not technically wrong, just looks silly. Same goes for "Vegito." They could make a case for "Bulla" if they really wanted to (though, "Bula" would be more appropriate).

They're also written it as Bura in latin letters in like Super. Though that's well after the Bulla name was decided on by Funimation

Where's the line drawn? People would always bash how Funimation pronounced "Saiyan," and yeah, I get it, but do people also say "Bebi" and "Pahn" and "Uron," or is it because of the word that "Saiyan" is a pun on?

I think it's more along the liness of, objectively, how do you even get Sayin out of Saiyan? Schemmel apparently questioned the Saiyan pronounciation wheh he was first hired. And it's amusing when people who clearly know nothing about Dragon Ball Z accidentally pronounce it correctly like Al Roker at a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade or Toonami UK promo.guy.

Completely remove yourself from having the Sayin pronounciation drilled in your head since you like 6. If you knew nothing about Dragon Ball not even from pop culture osmosis and saw the word Saiyan unless you're Barry Watson you probably would pronounce it Sai Yan not Say IN

The Sayin pronounciation isn't going anywhere but it is silly.

And then, that brings us to the question of what's more "correct"--keeping the pun or trying to translate the Japanese version? What about spelling? You can make the same argument about "Kakarot" or "Kakarrot" ("Cacarrot") and "Jiren" ("Geran") as you can make about why "Frieza" is wrong.

Anyway, this is the same conversation that's been happening for years and the added vulgarity seems to invite more bashing than constructive conversation.

As far as character names and attack names go I'd generally prefer leaving them in their original Japanese. I'm not gonna get upset with transliterations like getting Shenron from Shen Long was probably an honest mistake. But something like Destructo Disk isn't even close to Kienzan.

Of course there comes a grey.area when a characters name is a title instead of an actual name. Gyumao getting translated as Ox King is fine. Ox Demon King probably wouldn't fit the mouth flaps (and demon was also probably removed for censorship reasons) Kame Sennin being translated as Turtle Hermit is fine(at the same time you lose the connection to Kamehameha and why its called Kame House)

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

And it's amusing when people who clearly know nothing about Dragon Ball Z accidentally pronounce it correctly like Al Roker at a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade or Toonami UK promo.guy.

Pan also pronounced it that way before she collapsed in the Big Green dub of the GT special. I assume that was because the "Say An" pronunciation is not so iconic or known in France, especially amongst people who might not be huge fans of the franchise.

And yes people can dream all they want but the way Saiyan is pronounced in English dubs is never going to change. The damage is done, several generations of fans have now been accustomed to it, although it was probably too late from day one. Maybe Funimation could have made a change if they stood their ground with attack names in Kai but you can't just say the name of the main character's race, which is such an integral part of their identity wrong once and then backtrack.

[Vegard Aune]

Kakarot is "right" in the sense that it is a corruption of "carrot" and if you squint you can get that (and honestly, the way they pronounce it is closer to the English word carrot than the Japanese nama カカロット is to キャロット), but it's also "wrong" in the sense that it low-key breaks Vegetto's name. But if one just looks at it as a pun on "carrot", then Kakarot is fine.

..."Android" is bizarrely a legit translation. Even if it's also the wrong word to describe what 17 and 18 are. But that's a mistake on Toriyama's side. Even Japanese fans have noted that 改造人間 would be a better word for what they are than 人造人間. So ironically FUNi using the wrong word themselves actually made it an accurate translation. Funny how that works out.

[Tian]

..."Android" is bizarrely a legit translation. Even if it's also the wrong word to describe what 17 and 18 are. But that's a mistake on Toriyama's side. Even Japanese fans have noted that 改造人間 would be a better word for what they are than 人造人間. So ironically FUNi using the wrong word themselves actually made it an accurate translation. Funny how that works out.

Yeah, it never made sense (at least, to me) to call 17, 18 and Dr. Gero "Artificial Humans" when they are actually natural humans who were just mechanically enhanced. That term only makes sense with 16 and 19 because they are indeed artificial humans.

I agree that "Enhanced Humans" or "Modified Humans" would've been more appropiate for the former three but it's not something easy to lip sync in some dubs.

FUNi probably went with Androids because that was the only English term that could lip sync perfectly with Jinzoningen, even though it's not the correct term to describe the characters.

[TheGreatness25]

..."Android" is bizarrely a legit translation. Even if it's also the wrong word to describe what 17 and 18 are. But that's a mistake on Toriyama's side. Even Japanese fans have noted that 改造人間 would be a better word for what they are than 人造人間. So ironically FUNi using the wrong word themselves actually made it an accurate translation. Funny how that works out.

Yeah, it never made sense (at least, to me) to call 17, 18 and Dr. Gero "Artificial Humans" when they are actually natural humans who were just mechanically enhanced. That term only makes sense with 16 and 19 because they are indeed artificial humans.

I agree that "Enhanced Humans" or "Modified Humans" would've been more appropiate for the former three but it's not something easy to lip sync in some dubs.

FUNi probably went with Androids because that was the only English term that could lip sync perfectly with Jinzoningen, even though it's not the correct term to describe the characters.

I think "cyborg" is just as easy to use as "android," but then there's an inconsistency where the Japanese version uses one word to group them all in together while Funimation's version wouldn't.

I, myself, prefer to use "cyborg" for 17, 18, 20, and whoever. Honestly? I recall them being "androids" in all of the summaries way, way before Funimation ever dubbed those episodes. Could they have taken a cue from fans online?

But all of that is peanuts compared to when Funimation called Cell an android. That's the one thing I can't let slide lol I understand why he would be an "artificial human," or a man-made living organism--fine. But he's nowhere near an android.

[Hellspawn28]

For over 20 years, I have seen Gyarikku Hō be translated as "Galick", "Gallick", "Garick", "Garrick", etc. So Galick Gun feels legit if you ask me.

[GhostEmperorX]

Kakarot is "right" in the sense that it is a corruption of "carrot" and if you squint you can get that (and honestly, the way they pronounce it is closer to the English word carrot than the Japanese nama カカロット is to キャロット), but it's also "wrong" in the sense that it low-key breaks Vegetto's name. But if one just looks at it as a pun on "carrot", then Kakarot is fine.

True, and I wanted to say, using "Kakarotto" is like using "Dotto" or "Goddo" instead of their proper English counterparts (Dot, God). I wonder how this almost always slips through whenever the topic comes up.

..."Android" is bizarrely a legit translation. Even if it's also the wrong word to describe what 17 and 18 are. But that's a mistake on Toriyama's side.

Yep, that one is 100% his fault, he ended up complicating something that has a straightforward answer just about everywhere else.

[Tian]

But all of that is peanuts compared to when Funimation called Cell an android. That's the one thing I can't let slide lol I understand why he would be an "artificial human," or a man-made living organism--fine. But he's nowhere near an android.

Yeah, it's such a pain in the A to try to classify them in one group.

Cyborgs (Organisms that received mechanical modifications): 17, 18 and Gero.
Androids (Mechanical beings that resemble humans): 16 and 19.
Bio-Robot (Creation of biology and mechanical technology): Cell.

Regardless he intended it or not, Toriyama sure gave us a variety of mechanical characters.

[TechExpert2021]

Not sure what makes something "legit." "Frieza" is not technically wrong, just looks silly. Same goes for "Vegito." They could make a case for "Bulla" if they really wanted to (though, "Bula" would be more appropriate).

Where's the line drawn? People would always bash how Funimation pronounced "Saiyan," and yeah, I get it, but do people also say "Bebi" and "Pahn" and "Uron," or is it because of the word that "Saiyan" is a pun on?

And then, that brings us to the question of what's more "correct"--keeping the pun or trying to translate the Japanese version? What about spelling? You can make the same argument about "Kakarot" or "Kakarrot" ("Cacarrot") and "Jiren" ("Geran") as you can make about why "Frieza" is wrong.

Anyway, this is the same conversation that's been happening for years and the added vulgarity seems to invite more bashing than constructive conversation.

"Bra", to me, is an acceptable translation of "ブラ", although it sounds more like "bruh". "Bula" and "Bura" might also work, but both names lose the "woman's bra" reference. "Bulla", however, is an incorrect transliteration of "ブラ" because there is no katakana sokuon ("ッ") between "bu" ("ブ") and "ra" ("ラ") in the name "ブラ".

"Saiyan" is a pun on "yasai" ("野菜"), a Japanese word meaning "vegetable" (hence the names of Saiyan characters being puns on names of vegetables). Therefore, it is pronounced as "Sai-yan" and not "Say-in". However, the correct pronunciation is often sidelined in favor of the "Say-in" pronunciation since it is too iconic among the English-speaking Dragon Ball fandom.

What about "Dr. Gero"? Funimation pronounces it as "Dr. Je-ro" (Ocean, however, pronounces it as "Dr. Jy-ro"). Well, it's wrong because "ゲ" is pronounced as "ge" as in "get" ("ゲット"), and therefore, it is correctly pronounced as "Dr. Ge-ro" ("ドクターゲロ"). Also, "Gero" ("げろ") means "vomit" in Japanese.

For over 20 years, I have seen Gyarikku Hō be translated as "Galick", "Gallick", "Garick", "Garrick", etc. So Galick Gun feels legit if you ask me.

If "hou" ("砲") as in "Gyarikku Hou" ("ギャリック砲") is translated as "Gun" as in "Galick Gun", then "Makankousappo" ("魔貫光殺砲") would be translated as "Demon Piercing Light Killing Gun" instead of "Demon Piercing Light Killing Cannon". And yes, "Galick Gun" is a legit translation.

[dragonmagico]

But all of that is peanuts compared to when Funimation called Cell an android. That's the one thing I can't let slide lol I understand why he would be an "artificial human," or a man-made living organism--fine. But he's nowhere near an android.

Yeah, it's such a pain in the A to try to classify them in one group.

Cyborgs (Organisms that received mechanical modifications): 17, 18 and Gero.
Androids (Mechanical beings that resemble humans): 16 and 19.
Bio-Robot (Creation of biology and mechanical technology): Cell.

Regardless he intended it or not, Toriyama sure gave us a variety of mechanical characters.

Plus toriyama used the word cyborgu/cyborg when referring to cyborg tao psi Pai before. So if he wanted that word used he certainly knew of it. I think the fly by seat recons of who the baddies are lead to a lot of this. 19 was an android. Dunno if 20 was always supposed to be gyros brain in a robot body or not before retcon. 17 and 18 weren't the revealed to have originally been human until much later in the arc. So who knows if that's another retcon made when it pivoted to cell being the baddie.


http://lovelycyborg.com/cyband.php

[Adamant]

As far as the entire "jinzoningen/android" thing goes, I'll just quote some posts I wrote about that a couple years back. It's a biiiit more complicated than just "mistranslation" or "Toriyama used the wrong word":

Regarding the entire "what is a jinzoningen" thing, the various terms are kinda fuzzy in Japan too. I'm looking at the wikipedia article for the jinzoningen term, and it mentions that the TV show Jinzoningen Kikaider, which is apparently officially titled "Android Kikaider" in English, features a Dr. Gero-type creature named Hakaider who's 100% robot aside from his human brain. The character is referred to as a "jinzoningen" in the show itself, while his theme song features the line "I am a robot, a cyborg".
The article also mentions an English-Japanese Dictionary from the 70s that gave "jinzoningen" as a translation of the English word cyborg.

A jinzouningen is all those things. Robot, android, cyborg, creatures grown in labs, etc.

No, it's not simply a blanket term. As I said, it's a bit fuzzy.

Quoting the article:

"Jinzoningen" is a general term for machines and artificial life forms made to resemble humans, such as humanoid robots.

(...)

As described in the [[Cyborg]] article, a cyborg is a human or animal whose bodily functions are being assisted or strengthened by automated control technology, and in Japan the word typically refers to a human whose body and abilities have been strengthened with mechanisms, but depending on how much of the human body remains (or is used), it's sometimes a question of whether or not the word cyborg should still be used, so in some instances the terms "jinzoningen" and "robot" get used as well. In addition, some English-Japanese dictionaries give "jinzoningen" as a Japanese translation of "cyborg".

tldr jinzoningen is not a blanket term for both android and cyborg, but there are some instances where the term is used about someone who should technically count as a cyborg, typically when they're more robot than person. It uses Hakaider as an example, pointing out that he's referred to as both a jinzoningen, a cyborg AND a robot.

So how would one accurately translate that? Would if it have to be separate labels in English? So like, #17 and #18 would be called "Cyborgs", #16 would be an Android, and Cell an "Artificial Life form"?

That's the million dollar question, innit? tbh I don't think there's any real good answer to it, and like that wikipedia article says, "jinzoningen" is a kinda weird and not entirely appropriate term to refer to 17 and 18 in Japanese as well.

Regarding Cell, well, over at Marvel they got this guy:



He's very specially referred to as an "android", yet he's an artificial life form grown in a lab. If he's an android, surely that would make Cell an android too. Did Stan Lee use the wrong term? Did Toriyama use the wrong term? Do we just go with the terms the author uses even when we know they don't mean what the author thinks they mean? What if they, like in this instance, are terms that primarily get used in fiction? Just call em what you want, whether that be androids or cyborgs or artificial humans or jinzoningen or whatever. All of these choices are flawed in SOME way.