Which English dub terms are legit translations and not just Funi shit

[Cure Dragon 255]

As far as the entire "jinzoningen/android" thing goes, I'll just quote some posts I wrote about that a couple years back. It's a biiiit more complicated than just "mistranslation" or "Toriyama used the wrong word":

Regarding the entire "what is a jinzoningen" thing, the various terms are kinda fuzzy in Japan too. I'm looking at the wikipedia article for the jinzoningen term, and it mentions that the TV show Jinzoningen Kikaider, which is apparently officially titled "Android Kikaider" in English, features a Dr. Gero-type creature named Hakaider who's 100% robot aside from his human brain. The character is referred to as a "jinzoningen" in the show itself, while his theme song features the line "I am a robot, a cyborg".
The article also mentions an English-Japanese Dictionary from the 70s that gave "jinzoningen" as a translation of the English word cyborg.

A jinzouningen is all those things. Robot, android, cyborg, creatures grown in labs, etc.

No, it's not simply a blanket term. As I said, it's a bit fuzzy.

Quoting the article:

"Jinzoningen" is a general term for machines and artificial life forms made to resemble humans, such as humanoid robots.

(...)

As described in the [[Cyborg]] article, a cyborg is a human or animal whose bodily functions are being assisted or strengthened by automated control technology, and in Japan the word typically refers to a human whose body and abilities have been strengthened with mechanisms, but depending on how much of the human body remains (or is used), it's sometimes a question of whether or not the word cyborg should still be used, so in some instances the terms "jinzoningen" and "robot" get used as well. In addition, some English-Japanese dictionaries give "jinzoningen" as a Japanese translation of "cyborg".

tldr jinzoningen is not a blanket term for both android and cyborg, but there are some instances where the term is used about someone who should technically count as a cyborg, typically when they're more robot than person. It uses Hakaider as an example, pointing out that he's referred to as both a jinzoningen, a cyborg AND a robot.

So how would one accurately translate that? Would if it have to be separate labels in English? So like, #17 and #18 would be called "Cyborgs", #16 would be an Android, and Cell an "Artificial Life form"?

That's the million dollar question, innit? tbh I don't think there's any real good answer to it, and like that wikipedia article says, "jinzoningen" is a kinda weird and not entirely appropriate term to refer to 17 and 18 in Japanese as well.

Regarding Cell, well, over at Marvel they got this guy:



He's very specially referred to as an "android", yet he's an artificial life form grown in a lab. If he's an android, surely that would make Cell an android too. Did Stan Lee use the wrong term? Did Toriyama use the wrong term? Do we just go with the terms the author uses even when we know they don't mean what the author thinks they mean? What if they, like in this instance, are terms that primarily get used in fiction? Just call em what you want, whether that be androids or cyborgs or artificial humans or jinzoningen or whatever. All of these choices are flawed in SOME way.

This is a great post and I have to add something most people have not mentioned. Even Goku, dumb as he is, knows you cant fuck a fully artificial woman (I am deliverately avoiding a specific term here to make a point.) that a robot WOULDNT BE ABLE to get pregnant.

But what Toriyama is doing with Goku here is ask "Well, how did the toaster get pregnant, how can she do that?" and then Krillin explains.

While Artificial Human or Cyborg is more correct in the context even if not perfect, I think Toriyama using Goku's confusion to explain something to the audiences means that even in Japanese, he used a term that COULD BE INTERPRETED TO MEAN "NOT HUMAN AND OR ORGANIC" that the audience also assumed she was robotic and couldnt get pregnant. It is a confusion that exists even in Japanese.

Adamant here has the best take, there IS NO 100% correct translation... but no truly "wrong" one either. Also I KNEW Android was a toy term too. Didnt say it before but someone here confirmed it.

[GhostEmperorX]

That's honestly the best position to take, and knowing Toriyama I wouldn't even be surprised if Kikaider did indeed have something to do with it all, considering how much Toku references he loved to throw into the series.
Hadn't quite thought about it that way myself. Makes all the "dying on a hill" for one side or the other look even more overblown than it already is.

[ThunderPX]

"Bra", to me, is an acceptable translation of "ブラ", although it sounds more like "bruh". "Bula" and "Bura" might also work, but both names lose the "woman's bra" reference. "Bulla", however, is an incorrect transliteration of "ブラ" because there is no katakana sokuon ("ッ") between "bu" ("ブ") and "ra" ("ラ") in the name "ブラ".

This doesn't check out. The double L doesn't alter the pronunciation, but "Bula" looks strange in English and since the "u" sound would be short, the double L helps to indicate that. Additionally, ッ preceding an R sound seems to be very rare--I'd never even seen it before, and Googling it only brought up one thread noting certain Italian words using it when transliterated. If you saw the name ビリー, you would transliterate that as "Billy", wouldn't you?

[TheAldella]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

Absolutely! Nice Catch!

[Y2_O3]

And it's amusing when people who clearly know nothing about Dragon Ball Z accidentally pronounce it correctly like Al Roker at a Macy's Thanksgiving Parade or Toonami UK promo.guy.

Pan also pronounced it that way before she collapsed in the Big Green dub of the GT special. I assume that was because the "Say An" pronunciation is not so iconic or known in France, especially amongst people who might not be huge fans of the franchise.

And yes people can dream all they want but the way Saiyan is pronounced in English dubs is never going to change. The damage is done, several generations of fans have now been accustomed to it, although it was probably too late from day one. Maybe Funimation could have made a change if they stood their ground with attack names in Kai but you can't just say the name of the main character's race, which is such an integral part of their identity wrong once and then backtrack.

Why can't the thedaoofdragonball.com be opened?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Why can't the thedaoofdragonball.com be opened?

Just checked there myself, apparently it's undergoing maintainence and will be back up soon.

[Hellspawn28]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

Great Ape is still a dumb name because apes don't have tails. Funimation could have keep it as Oozaru, but probably thought people are too stupid to understand certain words.

[TechExpert2021]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

Great Ape is still a dumb name because apes don't have tails. Funimation could have keep it as Oozaru, but probably thought people are too stupid to understand certain words.

What about "Big Monkey" and "Great Monkey"? They work as direct literal translations of "Oozaru" ("大猿").

I think future dubs of new Dragon Ball anime and English localizations of new Dragon Ball games should use "Oozaru", "Big Monkey", or "Great Monkey" (or use all of them interchangeably) instead of "Great Ape".

[MasenkoHA]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

Great Ape is still a dumb name because apes don't have tails. Funimation could have keep it as Oozaru, but probably thought people are too stupid to understand certain words.

What about "Big Monkey" and "Great Monkey"? They work as direct literal translations of "Oozaru" ("大猿").

I think future dubs of new Dragon Ball anime and English localizations of new Dragon Ball games should use "Oozaru", "Big Monkey", or "Great Monkey" (or use all of them interchangeably) instead of "Great Ape".

Missed opportunity to not refer to it as Big Monkey

[TheGreatness25]

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down. Maybe "great primate"? Or does the rhyming make it comical?

I mean... it's an alien ape, so it could have a tail... I don't know lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

Isn't Oozaru to Great Ape also rather close to a direct translation?

Great Ape is still a dumb name because apes don't have tails. Funimation could have keep it as Oozaru, but probably thought people are too stupid to understand certain words.

I knew giving praise to Funimation was folly. I KNEW IT (Angry at myself and Funimation, not you). Thanks for the heads up.

[M16U3L2015]

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down. Maybe "great primate"? Or does the rhyming make it comical?

Although to call them derogatorily monkeys is something exclusive of the english dub.

[TheGreatness25]

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down. Maybe "great primate"? Or does the rhyming make it comical?

Although to call them derogatorily monkeys is something exclusive of the english dub.

But the English version that uses it in a derogatory way is the same version that uses "Great Ape."

[Kaboom]

I don't think "Great Ape" is worth splitting hairs over. Sure it's not fully accurate to the real-world difference between apes and monkeys, but it's close enough while being simple and punchy, and "Great Monkey" sounds kinda awkward. It's similar to "Spirit Bomb" vs "Spirit Ball" where it's good enough and gets the point across.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I believe Oozaru translates to "big monkey", which an ape is, "Great Ape" is fine though, it still leens more on the "style over substance" that is a running trend for a lot of Funimation's translations, but its nowhere near as jarring as their other translations.

"Great" is an ambiguous word, but it could be interpreted to mean "big", so it works better than other times where Funimation just threw on a fancy qualifying word, like putting "special" before "beam cannon" for Makonkosappo, which didn't make much sense. Makonkosappo would have been better rendered as "demonic light cannon" or "demon piercing light cannon" because there's nothing "special" about the attack, "beam cannon" is too generic and rids it of all the dark mysticism.

[TechExpert2021]

I believe Oozaru translates to "big monkey", which an ape is, "Great Ape" is fine though, it still leens more on the "style over substance" that is a running trend for a lot of Funimation's translations, but its nowhere near as jarring as their other translations.

"Great" is an ambiguous word, but it could be interpreted to mean "big", so it works better than other times where Funimation just threw on a fancy qualifying word, like putting "special" before "beam cannon" for Makonkosappo, which didn't make much sense. Makonkosappo would have been better rendered as "demonic light cannon" or "demon piercing light cannon" because there's nothing "special" about the attack, "beam cannon" is too generic and rids it of all the dark mysticism.

The same thing might apply to Funimation using "Destructo Disc" for "Kienzan" ("気円斬"). They should've used "Ki Disc Cutter", "Energy Disc Cutter", or "Ki Circle Cutter" for "Kienzan".

[Adamant]

Great Ape is not a Funi term, it originates from Japanese merch. It's "ape" instead of "monkey" because English is one of the few languages that has commonly used, separate names for the two. Non-English speakers don't really think of "apes" and "monkeys" as being different things

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down.

It's the exact same word.

[TheGreatness25]

Great Ape is not a Funi term, it originates from Japanese merch. It's "ape" instead of "monkey" because English is one of the few languages that has commonly used, separate names for the two. Non-English speakers don't really think of "apes" and "monkeys" as being different things

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down.

It's the exact same word.

But, Funimation wasn't exactly known for taking direction from Japanese merchandise. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a "Frieza." The transformation isn't called "ape" nor "monkey" in Japanese, so either way, it's on Funimation to accurately portray the form.

I don't really think this is that big of a deal, but I definitely see how this is used as another check in the Funi inadequacy column.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Great Ape is not a Funi term, it originates from Japanese merch. It's "ape" instead of "monkey" because English is one of the few languages that has commonly used, separate names for the two. Non-English speakers don't really think of "apes" and "monkeys" as being different things

Could the explanation for "great ape" simply be that "monkey" is seen as derogatory term? Freeza calls them "monkeys" as a way to put them down.

It's the exact same word.

God, Funimation REALLY doesnt deserve any sort of praise. Whenever I try, I find out they never deserved it.