Does anyone else think that Vegeta joining the Dragon team was ridiculous in retrospect?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Off-topic, but I do love that scene in Super where Trunks explains.

"Oh yeah, there was that Majin Boo thing, meh. I just killed the bad guys and ended the arc in literally 2 minutes."

Like, without Goku or Vegeta around, there would be no Majin Boo.
If that wasn't clear before, Super pretty much made it indisputable.

Well that is true, but it was Trunks who did it. Like it or not Bulma and Vegeta's decision to fuck saved the future. THE ONLY UNAMBIGUOUSLY good thing.

Still shit tier writing.

[jjgp1112]

Regarding Vegeta and Bulma, I could honestly see it. She's not the most morally discerning person and if there's a moment of connection, I could easily see them having a physical relationship. I know it's filler but I do like their scenes in the episode where she's taking care of him after he takes his training too far.

I'd imagine their relationship started insanely adversarial but gradually warmed up into banter due to their mutual attraction and even more significantly, loneliness . Plus with Bulma being both a scientist and a narcissist, she probably has severe "I can fix him" syndrome.

[JulieYBM]

Off-topic, but I do love that scene in Super where Trunks explains.

"Oh yeah, there was that Majin Boo thing, meh. I just killed the bad guys and ended the arc in literally 2 minutes."

Like, without Goku or Vegeta around, there would be no Majin Boo.
If that wasn't clear before, Super pretty much made it indisputable.

Honestly, if a Future Trunks version of that arc was depicted in full I think it would be interesting to still show things progressing a bit by having Trunks' good nature used against him, just so it's not an immediate resolution devoid if conflict, but I definitely agree that I don't like how Gokuu and Vegeta's bullshit affects the revival of Majin Buu. Honestly, if Gohan had remained the focus then I think using that idea for a Trunks arc for Gohan would work, too.

Gohan having to let Majin Buu be revived because he was outsmarted and had his morality used against him is good drama to play with that solidly defines Gohan as a separate protagonist type from Son Gokuu.

[tonysoprano300]

The Vegeta we meet at the beginning of the series wouldn't have tried to make up for the trouble he caused, so I would consider that a significant change.

And that scenario with Piccolo and Goku is pure speculation. They certainly needed Vegeta in the Buu arc and it was even his idea about how to use the Dragon Balls.

It is speculation, but not unreasonable. I really struggle to recall a single meaningful contribution he made in the Cell arc outside of saving Goku(Which piccolo would have done anyway).

The Buu saga doesn’t happen without Vegeta, he is the reason Buu was able to get the necessary energy for his awakening. I don’t really see how they needed him when he was responsible for everything that happened.

He's able to distract Cell long enough for Gohan to kill Cell.

I get that about Buu, but at the end, without Vegeta's power, Goku doesn't make it several times over. And seeing as how this is a group that has let bad guys free or attain a greater level of power in order to facilitate a fight, they aren't ones to throw stones at Vegeta for doing the same. Vegeta was the reason for Buu being released, but Goku and Company have poked the bear before even after being warned not to.

Not unreasonable but speculation nonetheless.

Regarding Vegeta and Bulma, I could honestly see it. She's not the most morally discerning person and if there's a moment of connection, I could easily see them having a physical relationship. I know it's filler but I do like their scenes in the episode where she's taking care of him after he takes his training too far.

True but aren’t we seeing a consistent pattern? It starts with Vegeta screwing things up then being like “Ok, I guess I should put aside my pride to fight for the greater good” and then the characters applaud him for it.

Like even the whole thing with him distracting Cell was essentially just making up for the fact that Gohan injured himself trying to save him, but for some reason Piccolo(and by extension Kami) feels the need to applaud him.

I guess in my mind, when I think of someone being useful it usually suggests that they intervened in a bad situation and made it better. Piccolo’s redemption works because thats actually what he does. Vegeta on the other hand, is the kind of guy to borrow money from you and then act like he’s doing you a favour by paying you back. He creates bad situations and then gets a pat on the back for helping to fix it. In fairness though, they all deserve blame for not doing anything about Gero and Goku should get flack for allowing Vegeta to escape.

Idk, thats just me. I guess helping to fix a problem you created is better than leaving it to someone else

[Lukmendes]

And it wasn't unintentional. That was my point. Vegeta isnt hot and we know Bulma didn't think he was because she didn't throw herself at him on Namek

Bulma had long stopped throwing herself at hot men cunt first by the time Namek happens. By the 23rd tournament she notes Goku is handsome but tries nothing, even before Chi Chi does her thing, and in Namek itself she does take note of Zarbon's beauty but is still afraid of him.

Though yeah, it's only at the very end of Namek she comments on Vegeta in any way that isn't fear, the entire relationship just happens in a rather terrible way, as is everyone tolerating Vegeta, since unlike Piccolo, he took way longer to stop being a villain, and even Piccolo changing sides and joining them is bad in its own ways, since the other characters didn't consider him to be different from king Piccolo and that brings a lot of grudges, he was still a colossal jackass in the 23rd tournament, and just, his relationship with Gohan is awful, since the entire relationship is stockholm syndrome no matter how much Toriyama has Gohan and Goku say "He's not as bad as before" while also showing Piccolo as nothing but abusive until he decided to save Gohan from Nappa.

So point is, DB is very clunky, very dumb with "redeeming", and Vegeta is currently the worst case it has.

Off-topic, but I do love that scene in Super where Trunks explains.

"Oh yeah, there was that Majin Boo thing, meh. I just killed the bad guys and ended the arc in literally 2 minutes."

Like, without Goku or Vegeta around, there would be no Majin Boo.
If that wasn't clear before, Super pretty much made it indisputable.

Like Trunks would manage to do anything to Dabura if he didn't train with Vegeta lol.

Goku and Vegeta are both good and bad in the setting, (though Vegeta is obviously the much worse one), and while Goku is an irresponsible dumbass who inadvertently is a doom magnet, he's always the solution to solve the problem anyways, and everyone would be far worse without him.

True but aren’t we seeing a consistent pattern? It starts with Vegeta screwing things up then being like “Ok, I guess I should put aside my pride to fight for the greater good” and then the characters applaud him for it.

Like even the whole thing with him distracting Cell was essentially just making up for the fact that Gohan injured himself trying to save him, but for some reason Piccolo(and by extension Kami) feels the need to applaud him.

I guess in my mind, when I think of someone being useful it usually suggests that they intervened in a bad situation and made it better. Piccolo’s redemption works because thats actually what he does. Vegeta on the other hand, is the kind of guy to borrow money from you and then act like he’s doing you a favour by paying you back. He creates bad situations and then gets a pat on the back for helping to fix it. In fairness though, they all deserve blame for not doing anything about Gero and Goku should get flack for allowing Vegeta to escape.

Idk, thats just me. I guess helping to fix a problem you created is better than leaving it to someone else

Characters never really overpraise Vegeta for doing nice things outside of Buu saga, and even in that case Piccolo just tells him "You're going to hell anyway", and Yenma treated Vegeta as little more than a plan B to deal with Buu. Before that in Cell saga he was seen as a nuisance by everyone except Trunks and Goku, to the point that when Vegeta decides to avenge Trunks once Cell killed him, Krillin calls him an idiot for it since Trunks could be resurrected... Like the whole thing of Vegeta changing sides is still bad, but at the very least there was some tension around him still.

[AliTheZombie13]

Like Trunks would manage to do anything to Dabura if he didn't train with Vegeta lol.

He fared pretty well if you ask me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuw8vy1OaTY

[Lukmendes]

Like Trunks would manage to do anything to Dabura if he didn't train with Vegeta lol.

He fared pretty well if you ask me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuw8vy1OaTY

Yeah, after training with Vegeta he learned enough to become strong enough to fight Dabura. Trunks without that training would still be little more than 17's and 18's punching bag, and even more hopelessly outmatched once Dabura showed up.

My whole point is that even though Vegeta is generally a disaster, there are still occasional perks with his presence, Trunks' own power being such a case.

[AliTheZombie13]

Yeah, after training with Vegeta he learned enough to become strong enough to fight Dabura. Trunks without that training would still be little more than 17's and 18's punching bag, and even more hopelessly outmatched once Dabura showed up.

My whole point is that even though Vegeta is generally a disaster, there are still occasional perks with his presence, Trunks' own power being such a case.

I mean, having access to a room of extreme conditions that allows you to train for a whole year uninterrupted in exchange for a day's time in the real world kind of helps with that. I never got the impression that Vegeta's presence specifically is what allowed Trunks to become stronger. Rather, it made him dumber.

"Oh sure, I could've stopped Cell, but... I didn't want to hurt my daddy's feelings."

The second time Vegeta is shown to "train" Trunks in Super, Vegeta beats the crap out of him, doesn't teach him anything, tells him to stop running away to other timelines to seek help and deal with his own issues himself... only to invite himself to go to his timeline to deal with the issue, because again, Trunks learned NOTHING with Vegeta.

[Lukmendes]

I mean, having access to a room of extreme conditions that allows you to train for a whole year uninterrupted in exchange for a day's time in the real world kind of helps with that. I never got the impression that Vegeta's presence specifically is what allowed Trunks to become stronger. Rather, it made him dumber.

"Oh sure, I could've stopped Cell, but... I didn't want to hurt my daddy's feelings."

The second time Vegeta is shown to "train" Trunks in Super, Vegeta beats the crap out of him, doesn't teach him anything, tells him to stop running away to other timelines to seek help and deal with his own issues himself... only to invite himself to go to his timeline to deal with the issue, because again, Trunks learned NOTHING with Vegeta.

Trunks is too much of a dumbass to even consider going beyond the super saiyan, since when Vegeta and Goku suggest it he's baffled, and when Trunks eventually does use it, he goes too far and comes up with a bad transformation that should have really obvious downsides.

Hell even when Goku and Gohan left RoSaT, Trunks was wondering if Goku was planning to transform again, which Vegeta immediately points out that fighting in SS1 without modifications is better (Though ironically Trunks ended up being right about another transformation anyways, just not who would do it lol).

So yeah, Trunks learned from Vegeta, since Trunks is not a talented fighter at all, and if Trunks was left alone in RoSaT by himself, he probably wouldn't improve that much given his lack of experience and experimentation are very much flaws of his character.

[tonysoprano300]

And it wasn't unintentional. That was my point. Vegeta isnt hot and we know Bulma didn't think he was because she didn't throw herself at him on Namek

Bulma had long stopped throwing herself at hot men cunt first by the time Namek happens. By the 23rd tournament she notes Goku is handsome but tries nothing, even before Chi Chi does her thing, and in Namek itself she does take note of Zarbon's beauty but is still afraid of him.

Though yeah, it's only at the very end of Namek she comments on Vegeta in any way that isn't fear, the entire relationship just happens in a rather terrible way, as is everyone tolerating Vegeta, since unlike Piccolo, he took way longer to stop being a villain, and even Piccolo changing sides and joining them is bad in its own ways, since the other characters didn't consider him to be different from king Piccolo and that brings a lot of grudges, he was still a colossal jackass in the 23rd tournament, and just, his relationship with Gohan is awful, since the entire relationship is stockholm syndrome no matter how much Toriyama has Gohan and Goku say "He's not as bad as before" while also showing Piccolo as nothing but abusive until he decided to save Gohan from Nappa.

So point is, DB is very clunky, very dumb with "redeeming", and Vegeta is currently the worst case it has.

Off-topic, but I do love that scene in Super where Trunks explains.

"Oh yeah, there was that Majin Boo thing, meh. I just killed the bad guys and ended the arc in literally 2 minutes."

Like, without Goku or Vegeta around, there would be no Majin Boo.
If that wasn't clear before, Super pretty much made it indisputable.

Like Trunks would manage to do anything to Dabura if he didn't train with Vegeta lol.

Goku and Vegeta are both good and bad in the setting, (though Vegeta is obviously the much worse one), and while Goku is an irresponsible dumbass who inadvertently is a doom magnet, he's always the solution to solve the problem anyways, and everyone would be far worse without him.

True but aren’t we seeing a consistent pattern? It starts with Vegeta screwing things up then being like “Ok, I guess I should put aside my pride to fight for the greater good” and then the characters applaud him for it.

Like even the whole thing with him distracting Cell was essentially just making up for the fact that Gohan injured himself trying to save him, but for some reason Piccolo(and by extension Kami) feels the need to applaud him.

I guess in my mind, when I think of someone being useful it usually suggests that they intervened in a bad situation and made it better. Piccolo’s redemption works because thats actually what he does. Vegeta on the other hand, is the kind of guy to borrow money from you and then act like he’s doing you a favour by paying you back. He creates bad situations and then gets a pat on the back for helping to fix it. In fairness though, they all deserve blame for not doing anything about Gero and Goku should get flack for allowing Vegeta to escape.

Idk, thats just me. I guess helping to fix a problem you created is better than leaving it to someone else

Characters never really overpraise Vegeta for doing nice things outside of Buu saga, and even in that case Piccolo just tells him "You're going to hell anyway", and Yenma treated Vegeta as little more than a plan B to deal with Buu. Before that in Cell saga he was seen as a nuisance by everyone except Trunks and Goku, to the point that when Vegeta decides to avenge Trunks once Cell killed him, Krillin calls him an idiot for it since Trunks could be resurrected... Like the whole thing of Vegeta changing sides is still bad, but at the very least there was some tension around him still.

End of namek arc, everyone is practically shining his shoes because he gave a suggestion on how to revive Goku. Gohan tries to shake his hand, Bulma invites him to come live with her lol

End of Buu saga, Goku’s like “Wow! What a great guy!” When literally earlier that sameday he killed innocent people and nearly killed bulma on top of unleashing Buu on the universe. Even Porunga somehow determined that Vegeta qualifies as worthy of resurrection…Goku was so concerned about preserving Vegeta’s feelings that he intentionally held back against Kidd Buu just so Vegeta wouldn’t feel left out.

Going through the manga recently made me want to scream at these characters

Off-topic, but I do love that scene in Super where Trunks explains.

"Oh yeah, there was that Majin Boo thing, meh. I just killed the bad guys and ended the arc in literally 2 minutes."

Like, without Goku or Vegeta around, there would be no Majin Boo.
If that wasn't clear before, Super pretty much made it indisputable.

In fairness to Goku, he was 100% trying to stop Buu’s revival. Vegeta made it abundantly clear that Goku must fight him, he didn’t really have a choice.

Not using SSJ3 was dumb though

[Lukmendes]

End of namek arc, everyone is practically shining his shoes because he gave a suggestion on how to revive Goku. Gohan tries to shake his hand, Bulma invites him to come live with her lol

Just these two, and Gohan is friendly by nature to the point he holds 0% grudges against Piccolo, who kidnapped him, abandoned him, then returned to beat him up while also treating him like shit when not beating him up.

Bulma's case is really bad though, yeah lol.

End of Buu saga, Goku’s like “Wow! What a great guy!” When literally earlier that sameday he killed innocent people and nearly killed bulma on top of unleashing Buu on the universe. Even Porunga somehow determined that Vegeta qualifies as worthy of resurrection…

Hm, yeah good points.

Goku was so concerned about preserving Vegeta’s feelings that he intentionally held back against Kidd Buu just so Vegeta wouldn’t feel left out.

That's Vegeta's assumption, Goku himself never talks like he's holding back to the point that when Goku says he was doing everything he can against Buu and Vegeta quietly asks "You weren't holding back?".



(DB#510)

Going through the manga recently made me want to scream at these characters

That's DB in general, specially Z lol.

Like when they're warned about the androids coming, while the obvious issue is hat they all would rather take the warrior route, there's also the very stupid point that almost everyone decides to train separately, instead of training together and learning from each other or whatever.

There's even a very silly moment in androids saga where Tien says he forgot that Piccolo was the demon king Piccolo... So the guy who was the cause of Roshi's death, killed Chiaotzu, beat up Tien and used him to torture Goku, then came back on the 23rd tournament to be a massive prick who tries to kill Goku and was about to kill everyone, and Tien just forgot about all that...

Seriously, while Vegeta is the more obvious case of "Why is he even allowed to hang out with you people?", the way everyone is overly forgiving of Piccolo to the point they forget he was a villain at all, is also silly, though obviously not as bad as Vegeta's case lol.

[jjgp1112]

End of namek arc, everyone is practically shining his shoes because he gave a suggestion on how to revive Goku. Gohan tries to shake his hand, Bulma invites him to come live with her lol

Gohan shaking his hand because he's a naive 5-year-old dweeb and Bulma being Bulma isn't exactly "everyone." And wasn't Bulma's praise somewhat backhanded?

[MasenkoHA]

End of namek arc, everyone is practically shining his shoes because he gave a suggestion on how to revive Goku. Gohan tries to shake his hand, Bulma invites him to come live with her lol

Gohan shaking his hand because he's a naive 5-year-old dweeb and Bulma being Bulma isn't exactly "everyone." And wasn't Bulma's praise somewhat backhanded?

Right, Bulma was pretty much "You ain't got any money might as well stay with us" She also invited the Namekians so she was probably in good spirits being back on earth with all their problems taken care of. Let's not forget she also invited Oolong way back at the end of the first arc. Girl just gets her good moods every now and then


Gohan is just a super polite kid. "You came up with a solution to safely return my father to life? Let me shake your hand"

[ABED]

Regarding Vegeta and Bulma, I could honestly see it. She's not the most morally discerning person and if there's a moment of connection, I could easily see them having a physical relationship. I know it's filler but I do like their scenes in the episode where she's taking care of him after he takes his training too far.

I'd imagine their relationship started insanely adversarial but gradually warmed up into banter due to their mutual attraction and even more significantly, loneliness . Plus with Bulma being both a scientist and a narcissist, she probably has severe "I can fix him" syndrome.

If this were a teen drama, girls would go wild for this ship. Shippers love what I call the "magical vagina" trope. They love seeing the bad boy change for the love of a good woman.

Anyway, I don't think Vegeta joining the team is that ridiculous. It's not like he's joining the Justice League.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm sorry to whoever get taken aback by my comment, but there's way too much overthinking going on. Vegeta did a bunch of bad things, but he was a cool villain and did even cooler things during the Namek arc, so he became a member of the team to keep his character around. There's obviously something to it--you ever seen all the people that like Vegeta even more than Goku?

Dragpn Ball isn't some kind of literary masterpiece--it's a comic book/cartoon for teenagers. Maybe now, everyone can look back in retelling and pick apart all the things that make Dragon Ball so "bad," but back when it was actually being released, I assure you that nobody was clutching their chest at Vegeta joining the team.

[ABED]

I'm sorry to whoever get taken aback by my comment, but there's way too much overthinking going on. Vegeta did a bunch of bad things, but he was a cool villain and did even cooler things during the Namek arc, so he became a member of the team to keep his character around. There's obviously something to it--you ever seen all the people that like Vegeta even more than Goku?

Dragpn Ball isn't some kind of literary masterpiece--it's a comic book/cartoon for teenagers. Maybe now, everyone can look back in retelling and pick apart all the things that make Dragon Ball so "bad," but back when it was actually being released, I assure you that nobody was clutching their chest at Vegeta joining the team.

I don't think anyone here is overthinking the issue. Most everyone understands the silly nature of the series but even within that, it's not too much to expect characters to act according to who they are, even a goofy martial arts story. What I and others are arguing is that given what the characters have done prior, such as letting bad guys go so they can have a better fight, it's not a huge leap that they would make allies with a brutal killer like Vegeta.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It was one of Toriyama's flying-by-the-seat of his pants decisions in his writing.

A new Super Saiyan arrived from the future (Trunks) and an explanation was needed for how he came about. It wouldn't have added any mystery if Goten or another son of Goku arrived from the future, and it was better for this individual to be son of another saiyan as all the other fighters fell behind Goku so much in strength a new worthy rival was needed.

Vegeta was allowed live after the Saiyan arc, and even after Namek, Toriyama needed somewhere to go with his character once he became Super Saiyan (which was all for Vegeta's own ego but it wasn't enough because by dint of achieving the form first Goku was always ahead of him) and to justify another saiyan from the future existing it was convenient that the one other adult saiyan could conceive his own with Bulma.

I agree with ABED that you can easily see how Bulma and Vegeta would hit it off. Bulma likes bad boys and Vegeta likes royalty, if he were to go for any woman it would surely be one who was born into wealth and is technologically savvy as the saiyans were.

Is it curious why the rest of Goku's family and friends other than Tien seem to have no fear of Vegeta going on a killing rampage? Probably, an argument could be made there, but they've all been longtime friends with Bulma so if anyone could convince them he's learned restraint it's her.

It's also possible Yū Kondō wanted to keep Vegeta around because of his experience in shojo manga his advice was influenced by the popularity of the "bad boy" archetype or thought Vegeta was needed as a juxtaposition or counter-balance to Goku's carefree, optimistic attitude.

[MasenkoHA]

It was one of Toriyama's flying-by-the-seat of his pants decisions in his writing.

A new Super Saiyan arrived from the future (Trunks) and an explanation was needed for how he came about. It wouldn't have added any mystery if Goten or another son of Goku arrived from the future, and it was better for this individual to be son of another saiyan as all the other fighters fell behind Goku so much in strength a new worthy rival was needed.

i think fans take the whole "Toriyama was making it up as he went along" way out of proportion. Trunks had a jacket with the capsule logo on. Toriyama had already came up with Bulma and Vegeta's son from the future idea before introducing Trunks not after. Probably not a whole lot sooner but definitely by the time he was planning out the last chapter of the Namek saga.

. Bulma likes bad boys and Vegeta likes royalty, if he were to go for any woman it would surely be one who was born into wealth and is technologically savvy as the saiyans were.

My issue with this is. No she doesn't she likes hot men and is indifferent to their morality but she's not explicitly attracted to bad boys. She even briefly swooned over Goku after seeing him as a grown man for the first time. And although Yamucha can be see as a bad boy when they first met his turning into a blubbering slackjaw socially anxious idiot around her did nothing to make her less attracted to him.

That's not to say Bulma couldn't develop an attraction to Vegeta despite not being her type but Toriyama kind of just skips over it and assumes his spending a year at the Capsule Corp Compound is enough to let readers fill in the banks that something developed.

And then Vegeta has never once indicated he's attracted to royalty or cares about any monarchy that isn't his own bloodline. Bulma's wealth means nothing to him. Later on it was suggested he was attracted to her strong personality but it would have been nice if we saw any of that before they got together.
L

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Vegeta isnt hot and we know Bulma didn't think he was because she didn't throw herself at him on Namek

To be fair whether or not someone is "hot" is highly subjective, and I don't swing that way so I can't say one way or the other. I certainly don't think Vegeta would fit the type of man that would fit that categorization for a straight woman or gay man. Maybe Yamcha, but my understanding was that the typical "hot guy" is also attractive because of his confidence. Yamcha didn't have that, he was scared of girls and wanted to get married. Of course Bulma was evidently just as attracted to Yamcha as he was to her, all she wanted was a boyfriend herself. So you are right that Bulma isn't explicitly attracted to bad boys, and isn't concerned about their morality. Clearly though, Vegeta ultimately had more to offer Bulma than Yamcha, for whatever reason.

And then Vegeta has never once indicated he's attracted to royalty or cares about any monarchy that isn't his own bloodline. Bulma's wealth means nothing to him. Later on it was suggested he was attracted to her strong personality but it would have been nice if we saw any of that before they got together.

Even if Bulma's wealth meant nothing to Vegeta I can't help but feel if Vegeta were to find a new life for himself on Earth (which he eventually did) it would be a smoother transition from what he knew on his home world. Aside from himself and Goku (and his half-breed son Gohan) the saiyans were gone, there was no race for Vegeta to rule over so apart from becoming a Super Saiyan he had to find a new purpose for himself on Earth. I couldn't imagine Vegeta dating a woman he was expected to support and provide for, he never had to do that for anyone, but marrying into a family with lots of money let's him off the hook.

I would imagine the "strong personality" thing was a case of Vegeta welcoming Bulma's independence, intelligence and sense of authority (which anyone can boast if they have money to back them). I think if Vegeta was to date any woman in Dragon Ball Bulma was the right choice, there's no way him and, say, Chi-Chi would ever work out, even if she never met Goku.

[tonysoprano300]

End of namek arc, everyone is practically shining his shoes because he gave a suggestion on how to revive Goku. Gohan tries to shake his hand, Bulma invites him to come live with her lol

Just these two, and Gohan is friendly by nature to the point he holds 0% grudges against Piccolo, who kidnapped him, abandoned him, then returned to beat him up while also treating him like shit when not beating him up.

Bulma's case is really bad though, yeah lol.

End of Buu saga, Goku’s like “Wow! What a great guy!” When literally earlier that sameday he killed innocent people and nearly killed bulma on top of unleashing Buu on the universe. Even Porunga somehow determined that Vegeta qualifies as worthy of resurrection…

Hm, yeah good points.

Goku was so concerned about preserving Vegeta’s feelings that he intentionally held back against Kidd Buu just so Vegeta wouldn’t feel left out.

That's Vegeta's assumption, Goku himself never talks like he's holding back to the point that when Goku says he was doing everything he can against Buu and Vegeta quietly asks "You weren't holding back?".



(DB#510)

Going through the manga recently made me want to scream at these characters

That's DB in general, specially Z lol.

Like when they're warned about the androids coming, while the obvious issue is hat they all would rather take the warrior route, there's also the very stupid point that almost everyone decides to train separately, instead of training together and learning from each other or whatever.

There's even a very silly moment in androids saga where Tien says he forgot that Piccolo was the demon king Piccolo... So the guy who was the cause of Roshi's death, killed Chiaotzu, beat up Tien and used him to torture Goku, then came back on the 23rd tournament to be a massive prick who tries to kill Goku and was about to kill everyone, and Tien just forgot about all that...

Seriously, while Vegeta is the more obvious case of "Why is he even allowed to hang out with you people?", the way everyone is overly forgiving of Piccolo to the point they forget he was a villain at all, is also silly, though obviously not as bad as Vegeta's case lol.

You could rationalize piccolo’s treatment of Gohan as a desperate attempt to leverage one of Earths most powerful assets against the saiyan invasion, if Piccolo didn’t do those things then its likely Gohan wouldnt make the contributions that he ends up making. Its somewhat reasonable even if its a but harsh.

I don’t think Vegeta has any such excuse but ill leave it to the naviety of a 5 year old to think Vegeta is his friend.

Them forgetting who king piccolo was, is very silly lol that would be like them forgetting who Freeza was. I guess Toriyama just struggles to remember some of the finer details of the stuff that he writes.

As for Piccolo, I buy it. I think that while he is a reincarnation of the original, its hard to say definitively whether or not they are identical to each other in every way. Its hard for me to picture the original King Piccolo deciding to sacrifice himself for Gohan or being completely docile after losing to Goku at the world martial arts tournament.

But outside of that, Piccolo by this point helped them defeat the saiyans and helped them against Freeza. He has also merged with Nail at this point, who we know does have some influence over him. Its also worth noting That piccolo has towed the line for a while, and hasn’t really been doing anything bad. Could always be written better of course