The power levels in Daizenshuu 7 do not match the manga

[Piramid]

Many people take the levels shown in this official guide as if they were consistent with what is seen in the manga, but there are details that make no sense. And not only the most discussed ones, such as Nappa having only 4000, but everything that corresponds to the initial sagas of the manga:

It is impossible that if Goku and Tien Shinhan have 180 during the 22nd tournament, Young King Piccolo has 260, since anyone who has read the manga knows that King Piccolo, when he was still old and winning against Goku, tells him that he still isn't using even half of his power. And when he becomes young, he is even more powerful! Therefore, if Goku before drinking the divine water had 180, that would mean that Old King Piccolo should be close to 400, so when he becomes young, he would surpass even Goku when he faces Raditz years later, which is impossible.

These levels make no sense even if they come from an official guide. Most likely, Toriyama didn't even participate in its creation and just gave it a quick approval.

[Kaboom]

Don't blame the guidebooks and their compilers for that, blame Toriyama for deciding that Goku and Piccolo were going to have PLs of only ~400 at the start of the Z era when scouters and numbers were first introduced. That became the upper numerical limit for Goku's power growth that the folks at Shueisha had to start with and work backwards from, and it didn't leave them a lot of "room" to account for all of the stuff you've pointed out. If instead Toriyama had arbitrarily said Goku and Piccolo were more like 1,000 with Raditz around 2,000 or something, then it'd probably have been a lot easier to take every such little "not even half-strength" statement into account.

And even still, things can mostly-kinda work when you consider how flexible the characters' PLs were in those earlier periods, and treat those numbers as more like starting points that could be easily amplified when fighting rather than as their full power.

[ZombieVito]

The line was either retconned (Not the only time this has happened in the series) or Piccolo was taking into account his Ki amp while firing attacks.

[Piramid]

Don't blame the guidebooks and their compilers for that, blame Toriyama for deciding that Goku and Piccolo were going to have PLs of only ~400 at the start of the Z era when scouters and numbers were first introduced. That became the upper numerical limit for Goku's power growth that the folks at Shueisha had to start with and work backwards from, and it didn't leave them a lot of "room" to account for all of the stuff you've pointed out. If instead Toriyama had arbitrarily said Goku and Piccolo were more like 1,000 with Raditz around 2,000 or something, then it'd probably have been a lot easier to take every such little "not even half-strength" statement into account.

And even still, things can mostly-kinda work when you consider how flexible the characters' PLs were in those earlier periods, and treat those numbers as more like starting points that could be easily amplified when fighting rather than as their full power.

But they had the bad idea of giving Goku from chapter 1 a power level of only 10 for no reason. It would have been much better to give that Goku a power level of around 20 and Master Roshi around 35, and from there, things could have worked much better.

In my list, I have it like this, and it continues with Tien in the 22nd tournament with a power level of 67, which leads me to a young King Piccolo with a power level of 177.

[nickzambuto]

It doesn't really make sense.

The best explanation is that power levels aren't linear. So when your power level is doubled, you actually become more than twice as strong.

Like how Goku's power level at the start was 10, only twice that of farmer with shotgun who was 5. But Goku was more than twice as strong as farmer, in terms of lifting, durability, speed.

[Piramid]

The real problem is that we have a canonically too strong Master Roshi, with a PL of 139 when Raditz appears.

One would think that by that time he would have stopped training and that even in the 22nd tournament he shouldn't be weaker than that. But then, if you assume that in the 22nd tournament he had at least 139, that means Old King Piccolo must have much more than that, perhaps 350 units, since according to his own words, he wasn't even using half of his power against Goku before drinking the Sacred Water. And when he becomes young again with Shenron's wish, he would be even more powerful.

It doesn't add up, so we can only assume that Roshi continued training and that by the time Raditz appears, he had already become more powerful than he was during the 22nd tournament. We have no choice but to give him a power level of only 60-65 units during the 22nd tournament, so that Piccolo's power isn't so high.

[LightBing]

I agree. I doubt people who created these numbers bothered to try and understand the logic behind Dragon Ball's power scaling.

An anecdote not in Daizenshuu but V-Jump. They give Vegeta 250.000, Kuririn 75.000 and Gohan 200.000, this is right before they fight Freeza who had 530.000.
Vegeta's and others adds up to 525.000.Whoever did those clearly knows nothing about Dragon Ball and thinks simple addition works...

Personally both times I tried to recreate the numbers pre-Raditz, only Tenshinhan was off because I think it would be off-character for him to barely have any gains after 23rd TB.

Don't blame the guidebooks and their compilers for that, blame Toriyama for deciding that Goku and Piccolo were going to have PLs of only ~400 at the start of the Z era when scouters and numbers were first introduced. That became the upper numerical limit for Goku's power growth that the folks at Shueisha had to start with and work backwards from, and it didn't leave them a lot of "room" to account for all of the stuff you've pointed out. If instead Toriyama had arbitrarily said Goku and Piccolo were more like 1,000 with Raditz around 2,000 or something, then it'd probably have been a lot easier to take every such little "not even half-strength" statement into account.

And even still, things can mostly-kinda work when you consider how flexible the characters' PLs were in those earlier periods, and treat those numbers as more like starting points that could be easily amplified when fighting rather than as their full power.

This is weirdly dismissive of the author.

Toriyama created this system, he didn't give random numbers. There's a reason we know the Farmer's number, it's for scale, likewise all of those who didn't even participate in the fight against Raditz. He obviously thought about it.

There's only a single specific power statement until that point the aforementioned "not even half strength"; there's various "many times stronger" or different level which are easily explained by not a single character having a scouter or even know whatever scale scouters use. They are just common phrases.
For reference I used the strength checker in this website made by Herms.

So yeah, if there's someone wrong it most likely isn't the author, it's those who either don't understand or are stuck to their own rules to care to understand.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

While I agree with what others have said (Toriyama didn't think much about it, power levels aren't linear, some levels could be amplified levels, etc), there's a couple I find very confusing.

First, Kami-Sama's power level in that Weekly Jump issue. It's lower than Piccolo's! Sure, some people say this is his Saiyan Saga level and he got weaker over the years, but I'm not sure if that's the actual intention since the issue gives levels for several Pre-DBZ characters. I imagine the editors confused Kami for Piccolo Daimao's older self.

Second, Tenshinhan being weaker than Piccolo? I don't even have to explain that one. Yamcha weaker than 22nd Budokai Goku is also stupid, but since Yamcha doesn't have any obvious feats (All he does is get a compliment from Kami and be considered Kuririn's rival) so I can see a lazy editors (And fans who only know DBZ) missing that.

Whoever put these power levels together really didn't think much more than Toriyama did. Starting with Goku at 10, jumping to 180 and then capping him at 400ish when the series really starts to get bloated shows they didn't really care. Granted these are funny meaningless numbers, but it's almost like they just rolled some dices to decide.

Toriyama created this system, he didn't give random numbers.

I mean... He kinda did. Besides the notion that "Goku and co. should be much stronger than the average dude" there isn't much thought put into this.

Like, Roshi being over 100 makes no sense. Not even getting into gaps or even specific statements, but I think something in the 80~90ish range is more fitting for the old master they surpassed long ago and doesn't even fight anymore. The fact Yamcha is closer to Roshi than he is to Tien makes me wonder if Toriyama always wanted to keep Roshi relevant to the humans like we see in DBS.

Btw, just remind me one thing about your old lists - did you have Goku and Piccolo maxing at 400ish, or did you think they could go higher than that without Ki attacks?

[Piramid]

This is weirdly dismissive of the author.

Toriyama created this system, he didn't give random numbers. There's a reason we know the Farmer's number, it's for scale, likewise all of those who didn't even participate in the fight against Raditz. He obviously thought about it.

There's only a single specific power statement until that point the aforementioned "not even half strength"; there's various "many times stronger" or different level which are easily explained by not a single character having a scouter or even know whatever scale scouters use. They are just common phrases.
For reference I used the strength checker in this website made by Herms.

So yeah, if there's someone wrong it most likely isn't the author, it's those who either don't understand or are stuck to their own rules to care to understand.

I understand what you mean, but that phrase "not even half strength" is also used after the scouters. A17 uses it before killing Gohan. I do believe that, at least in the case of A17, if we put it on a PL scale, hypothetically the power figure he used in his previous fight against Gohan would be less than half of his 100% power figure.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, I'd blame these magazines written by only-Kami-knows, instead of Toriyama. 400 PL as a ceiling and an armed farmer at 5 isn't a problem, there's plenty of margin to fit everybody comfortably without making a mess.

I never knew why these magazines were held in such high regard to the point to think it's the author that dropped the ball and not the dudes coming up with arbitrary numbers that don't add up.

[Hugo Boss]

The main point of introducing power levels was to show that ki control could easily alter these readings. Characters in the series can suppress or amplify their ki, which makes the power level readings fluctuate. Therefore, the numbers presented in guidebooks are just estimates and don’t accurately represent how the fights would play out. These power levels are meant to provide a general sense of strength but aren't definitive indicators of a character's true power in battle.

[LightBing]

I mean... He kinda did. Besides the notion that "Goku and co. should be much stronger than the average dude" there isn't much thought put into this.

Like, Roshi being over 100 makes no sense. Not even getting into gaps or even specific statements, but I think something in the 80~90ish range is more fitting for the old master they surpassed long ago and doesn't even fight anymore. The fact Yamcha is closer to Roshi than he is to Tien makes me wonder if Toriyama always wanted to keep Roshi relevant to the humans like we see in DBS.

Btw, just remind me one thing about your old lists - did you have Goku and Piccolo maxing at 400ish, or did you think they could go higher than that without Ki attacks?

Just because it isn't perfect, doesn't mean it's random and we should disregard it. I also believe Tenshinhan's number is off for example, doesn't make me throw the baby with the bath water.

Power levels aren't new, they are just continuing the logic Toriyama always applied. They are just narrative spice and for popularity.

I never had a problem with Roshi's number. Did he actually said he would stop fighting? I think him passing the torch doesn't mean he sat on the couch eating McDonalds all day.
The most obvious way to justify his growth is sparring with Kuririn. It's one of the most effective methods of growth, fighting someone stronger.

Regarding my old numbers. I never have them above these numbers.
In the story, Toriyama always tells us when characters are holding back. It's the main appeal of presenting scouter users as idiots; Goku versus the Ginyu Force for example.
Going against this would be wrong, specially since Toriyama is explicit.

I understand what you mean, but that phrase "not even half strength" is also used after the scouters. A17 uses it before killing Gohan. I do believe that, at least in the case of A17, if we put it on a PL scale, hypothetically the power figure he used in his previous fight against Gohan would be less than half of his 100% power figure.

I always take the half strength line into consideration when I do any numbers. It's Toriyama power scaling gospel! I should have made it clear, sorry.

It shows how he's always consistent in his logic from early to late Dragon Ball.