DragonBall Z Abridged

[Scsigs]

To be honest, I think Dragon Ball Z Abridged has done a lot of harm to the franchise. I mean, I'm the first that laughs a lot at their content, it's enjoyable to watch, but the problem is that they took themselves too seriously. Nowadays, you will find people acting as if Abridged is like "true dragon ball" or stuff like that (some of them haven't even watched the original series), and many of them treat TFS's words as Bible.

For me, it came to a point that I couldn't watch it anymore, since they reuse the series footage. It's like watching a movie masterpiece (I dunno, pick any you like, Lord of the Rings or whatever), but instead of in the cinema, it's a theatre parody...it can be fun at first, but in the end becomes tedious, and because I see the same images but with a satirical dub, in the end it even detracts from my enjoyment of the original.

Ok, no. That's not TFS' fault. That's people taking their opinions as word of god without actually analyzing the original version of the series.
The series isn't "true Dragon Ball." It's a parody that flanderizes characters' existing personality traits & gives them different ones to make fun of what's going on in the story.

...HOW can you not watch the original series anymore because of TFS? And, how is that their fault that you can't enjoy it anymore? That's a you problem, not TFS'. It's a parody, not the original. I fail to see how you can have a healthy separation between the 2. They do so many things that help create that, both good & bad.

TFS did a lot of good and a lot of bad to franchise at the same time but I don't blame them at all. I blame people taking their jokes and trying to twist it into canon like Goku's a bad dad or Goku is dumb vs being naive.

Goku isn't a "bad dad." He loves his family & friends. He's just not a conventional father. He spends a good amount of time with them & most of the time, him spending time away with them isn't his fault. I hate how they tried exploring it from another angle with Gohan where Gohan developed anger issues towards Goku. Gohan's smart enough to understand things even at a young age. It's why he doesn't have any anger towards Goku in canon.
Goku is both dumb and naive. He's book dumb, which makes him naive towards certain things & he's also naive towards certain social norms. However, he's not nearly as dumb or naive as TFS' version...at least until you get to Super where the writers have absolutely no idea how to write him when he's not in battle most of the time & Goku doesn't know what a kiss is for some reason despite him being married for over 20 years in-universe by then.

[anubisj]

Ok, no. That's not TFS' fault. That's people taking their opinions as word of god without actually analyzing the original version of the series.
The series isn't "true Dragon Ball." It's a parody that flanderizes characters' existing personality traits & gives them different ones to make fun of what's going on in the story.

...HOW can you not watch the original series anymore because of TFS? And, how is that their fault that you can't enjoy it anymore? That's a you problem, not TFS'. It's a parody, not the original. I fail to see how you can have a healthy separation between the 2. They do so many things that help create that, both good & bad.

What I fail to see is why are you so worked up over a simple opinion.

Anyways, yeah, I understand that the series isn't true Dragon Ball, I'm just saying that I found people that think that. And I'm not saying that it's TFS "fault" or whatever, as in an accusation, they probably did it with their best intentions, I'm just expressing what I think is a consequence of their work. Of course, I agree, people shouldn't treat their work as gospel.

As for your second question, well, as they use the same scenes as the original series, whenever I see the original series I can't avoid remembering the Abrigded scenes, can't dissociate between the two so easily So that's why I'd rather not keep watching it. But hey, it's well done, I'll give them that.

[dragonballhero]

Ngl, seeing DBGTFS has made me realize... what I hoped TFS would do (from the beginning, prior to them halting DBZA indefinitely after Cell) was abridge ALL of DBZ and THEN, do "GT Bits", but alas...

By the way... speaking of DBGTFS, I REALLY hope Lani and Kaiser note how Bra (Vegeta and Bulma's daughter) legit disappears from GT after the Super #17 arc's final episode. Like, she was with everyone when Black Smoke Shenron emerges from the damaged DBs, but she's gone by the very next episode.

Heck, she's not even a spectator for the final battle against Syn/Omega Shenron AND she's not even mentioned when everyone consider evacuating Earth when it looks like Syn/Omega has won. It's like GT pulled a Meg Griffin on her!

[miguelnuva1]

Ngl, seeing DBGTFS has made me realize... what I hoped TFS would do (from the beginning, prior to them halting DBZA indefinitely after Cell) was abridge ALL of DBZ and THEN, do "GT Bits", but alas...

By the way... speaking of DBGTFS, I REALLY hope Lani and Kaiser note how Bra (Vegeta and Bulma's daughter) legit disappears from GT after the Super #17 arc's final episode. Like, she was with everyone when Black Smoke Shenron emerges from the damaged DBs, but she's gone by the very next episode.

Heck, she's not even a spectator for the final battle against Syn/Omega Shenron AND she's not even mentioned when everyone consider evacuating Earth when it looks like Syn/Omega has won. It's like GT pulled a Meg Griffin on her!

She was training to tap into her multiverse hax and become mystic Super saiyan 5.

[Scsigs]

Ok, no. That's not TFS' fault. That's people taking their opinions as word of god without actually analyzing the original version of the series.
The series isn't "true Dragon Ball." It's a parody that flanderizes characters' existing personality traits & gives them different ones to make fun of what's going on in the story.

...HOW can you not watch the original series anymore because of TFS? And, how is that their fault that you can't enjoy it anymore? That's a you problem, not TFS'. It's a parody, not the original. I fail to see how you can have a healthy separation between the 2. They do so many things that help create that, both good & bad.

What I fail to see is why are you so worked up over a simple opinion.

Anyways, yeah, I understand that the series isn't true Dragon Ball, I'm just saying that I found people that think that. And I'm not saying that it's TFS "fault" or whatever, as in an accusation, they probably did it with their best intentions, I'm just expressing what I think is a consequence of their work. Of course, I agree, people shouldn't treat their work as gospel.

As for your second question, well, as they use the same scenes as the original series, whenever I see the original series I can't avoid remembering the Abridged scenes, can't dissociate between the two so easily So that's why I'd rather not keep watching it. But hey, it's well done, I'll give them that.

Because it's a thread on a message board for one of my favorite franchises & I can get pretty passionate about these things. Not to mention that I'm just exaggerating my reaction for full effect.

The people who think DBZA is "true Dragon Ball" have poor media literacy skills &/or haven't watched the original series or read the manga, imo. Or at least most of them are like that. I mainly find it ridiculous to think DBZA is that because I genuinely don't like what TFS turned Gohan into & how they executed the final bit of his character arc, that being that he's a pacifist who doesn't wanna fight Cell &, thus, Cell has to break him of that. This very much misunderstands the original character arc Toriyama put Gohan through, Gohan's character in both the original source material & DBZA up until that point, & I don't think works in its own right like a lot of the other things they added or changed. Gohan's character wasn't that of a pacifist, but a kid who'd fight to defend his friends & family learning to do so who has a huge amount of latent power hidden deep inside him that he ultimately needs to tap into to beat Cell with & do what Goku couldn't. He hates fighting all the time to solve problems, but he's not against doing so if it's the only resort. And even in DBZA up until that point, that's the case with Gohan until they wanted to have that weird message in it.

With so many differences & so many things cut out, I don't see how that makes much sense, but ok.

[kemuri07]

So two things.

1. I agree with your take on DBZA. I love that series, but too many absolutely take what is obviously meant to be a parody as an objective lens to look at the series as a whole. At the end of the day, no matter the quality of DBZA--it is still just a fan parody. It cannot be better than its source material because it's so reliant on that text for its existence.

2. I don't agree with your take about TFS calling Gohan a pacificist, or the more damning criticism--a coward. Gohan's reasoning for not wanting to kill Cell is not all that dissimilar to his reasons in the original manga. It's not that he won't fight, but that he doesn't see the point of fighting simply for the sake of fighting. That when he does get angry enough to want to kill, it is largely due to incredible mental duress after seeing people he loves get hurt or even die. That's the mistake Goku makes: He assumes that everyone sees fighting the way he does, and only realizes too late that that's not how Gohan feels.

It's also important to note that there are different variants of pacifism, including the belief that violence is only warranted as a last resort. I assume that that's what Gohan in DBZA means when he calls himself a pacifist--and why Cell fires back that he's a coward. That he holds on to his moral stances even when the people around him are being hurt. Like, what did Gohan expect when he tells Cell that he won't kill anyone. That Cell would have backed down? That Goku would have instead swooped in and saved Gohan like he always did? I'm not saying that this was Toriyama's reading of the situation. And for the most part, the original Manga plays it straight and makes it about Cell just trying to get a rise out of Gohan. TFS's approach is a deliberately controversial deconstruction of Gohan's character, but I don't think it's so far removed from the actual text that it ruins Gohan's character. In fact, Android's 19s speech agreeing with Cell is more of a harsher version of what he says in the manga. I think the reason why there are people who don't like it is because of how harsh it is. But it's ambitious in a way that only strengthens why I enjoy DBZA as I do.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 50-51
https://youtu.be/yfE3plm7lW8?si=_i6mvDXTwbde6kFd

[Scsigs]

So two things.

1. I agree with your take on DBZA. I love that series, but too many absolutely take what is obviously meant to be a parody as an objective lens to look at the series as a whole. At the end of the day, no matter the quality of DBZA--it is still just a fan parody. It cannot be better than its source material because it's so reliant on that text for its existence.

2. I don't agree with your take about TFS calling Gohan a pacificist, or the more damning criticism--a coward. Gohan's reasoning for not wanting to kill Cell is not all that dissimilar to his reasons in the original manga. It's not that he won't fight, but that he doesn't see the point of fighting simply for the sake of fighting. That when he does get angry enough to want to kill, it is largely due to incredible mental duress after seeing people he loves get hurt or even die. That's the mistake Goku makes: He assumes that everyone sees fighting the way he does, and only realizes too late that that's not how Gohan feels.

It's also important to note that there are different variants of pacifism, including the belief that violence is only warranted as a last resort. I assume that that's what Gohan in DBZA means when he calls himself a pacifist--and why Cell fires back that he's a coward. That he holds on to his moral stances even when the people around him are being hurt. Like, what did Gohan expect when he tells Cell that he won't kill anyone. That Cell would have backed down? That Goku would have instead swooped in and saved Gohan like he always did? I'm not saying that this was Toriyama's reading of the situation. And for the most part, the original Manga plays it straight and makes it about Cell just trying to get a rise out of Gohan. TFS's approach is a deliberately controversial deconstruction of Gohan's character, but I don't think it's so far removed from the actual text that it ruins Gohan's character. In fact, Android's 16's speech agreeing with Cell is more of a harsher version of what he says in the manga. I think the reason why there are people who don't like it is because of how harsh it is. But it's ambitious in a way that only strengthens why I enjoy DBZA as I do.

My response.

1. Yeah, agreed. TFS even maintain that their series isn't MEANT to be better than the original series. I very much still enjoy the majority of the series, but the fact that some people genuinely think it's better than the original series is really eye-rolling & headscratching. While the original series isn't perfect (I do have my problems with it in places), it's very much still a good product in of itself.

2. Gohan's reason for not wanting to fight or kill Cell is because he's not a fighter at heart, nor does he consider it his life's calling. From a young age, Gohan was raised to prioritize studying above fighting. He has immense potential & latent power, but he doesn't like to use it much. However, Gohan WILL fight if it's needed. He helped fight the Saiyans after Piccolo trained him for a year, overcoming his fear as a result, he helped fight Freeza & his forces in order to use Namek's Dragon Balls to revive his father's friends & Piccolo, he helped fight the Androids & Cell because he knew it was the right thing to do & trained with Goku to do so to get stronger, & he helped fight Babidi's forces & Buu because he knew it was the right thing to do. He even felt bad for not keeping up his strength with his training after the others commented on it, so he got stronger from the Old Kai giving him the power-up. And ever since then, Gohan's still fought when needed.
The way he's written in DBZA episode 60, it comes off like he was always like that & that was consistent with his characterization...which it wasn't. The previous episodes had Gohan more closer to how he is in the original. It literally felt like TFS thought they properly built up to that moment, which they didn't. It's inconsistent character writing & feels like they shoehorned a needless "pacifists are gutless, cowardly morons" type message into the show that didn't belong.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 52-53
https://youtu.be/aFOKlITT7Gw?si=ppcXEC4abOdNDOIa

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 54-56
https://youtu.be/Qf3xc84sLQk?si=n2OoqnOab5rZfwKr

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 57-58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZocir0cpc

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 59-60
https://youtu.be/pSi_NdCIyyc?si=wpB4qnY9Xva92oej

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 61-62
https://youtu.be/sdENsTbua5c?si=xMdPiP8adjE2KDLg

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 63-64
https://youtu.be/4yVk0nlPu88?si=eQHouwVZE7F1a7rW

[FoolsGil]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Episodes 63-64
https://youtu.be/4yVk0nlPu88?si=eQHouwVZE7F1a7rW

Spoiler:

Goku being dead after that last attack; I never realized after all this time.

GT truly does have the best finale of the franchise.

[Scsigs]

Ehhh...

I like what they did with it that was new & the little details that you can take & infer from it to inform your opinion if you pick up on them, like Goku being dead & the like, but I don't see the GT ending as much more than an alternate way of playing the Z finale with the defeat of Buu & the epilogue. The only real differences being everyone's ages, the lack of using the Dragon Balls to restore Goku to full ki, & the lack of any significant character arcs being wrapped up.
The way it wraps things up is fine, but I just think that it's too much af a retread of how Toriyama ended the manga, just without the "And the adventure continues..." ending of Goku going to train Uub.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Dragon Ball GTFS Commentary | Hero's Legacy Special

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsf-__lpV3Y

[Scsigs]

It's funny. Watching their reactions & recaps, none of my opinions on GT have really changed. I got more insight on the last episode & the ending, but I still don't see what GT defenders see about most of the series. The series to me has always been mid for the most part. Good ideas, poor execution. With at least a good ending. I could tell that ending was something they had been cooking up for a while.

[FoolsGil]

It's funny. Watching their reactions & recaps, none of my opinions on GT have really changed. I got more insight on the last episode & the ending, but I still don't see what GT defenders see about most of the series. The series to me has always been mid for the most part. Good ideas, poor execution. With at least a good ending. I could tell that ending was something they had been cooking up for a while.

Are there GT Defenders? Personally I've only said GT is better than Super, but that's not a high bar. Now? I feel they are equal in their highs, and Super's lows is slightly lower than GT's lows.

[Scsigs]

Are there GT Defenders? Personally I've only said GT is better than Super, but that's not a high bar. Now? I feel they are equal in their highs, and Super's lows is slightly lower than GT's lows.

Yes. There are. More recently, GT's started having its defenders come forth to either sing its praises, or try to argue against most people's criticisms of it.

Is GT better than Super, though? I actually don't think so. Both have their faults & I'm by no means ignoring Super's. I think the writers had no idea how to properly write Goku, I think the fact that Toei rushed the series into production at the beginning was awful for their animators, leading to awful animation in several episodes, the ending of the Future Trunks arc is abysmal after having great storytelling beforehand, etc. However, I actually like what Super did, which was expand the mythology of the gods & the multiverse in Dragon Ball. I also think that if it had stronger story arc writing, they could've honed in on something that it seemed like Toriyama was (perhaps unintentionally) setting up for a longterm story arc where he was showing that the gods are fallible in their mindsets & trying to work through Goku & Vegeta's personal faults with their fighting for them to be able to go toe-to-toe with the gods & give them a run for their money & influence that more into the series.

GT has middling episodes & storytelling in the beginning, makes Goku a kid & sends him off on an intergalactic hunt for new Dragon Balls to recapture the feel of OG DB, pivots to a Z-type story arc when the writers felt like the stories they were coming up with weren't good, has a good story arc with Baby that has a rushed ending, a terrible way to reintroduce 17 that doesn't actually matter to use him because it's just set up for the final arc, which is meh with an admittedly good ending & send-off to the franchise.

Like, yeah, they both have their highs & lows & I feel like Super has some really abysmal lows, but GT is just so mid most of the time that it doesn't matter that it doesn't have as low of lows like Super, I'm just less likely to rewatch it. Super has higher highs, certainly, but I just generally enjoy watching it more that I say it's the better series.