Nothing can appropriately express my anger

[SSJ2bardock]

I am entitled to an opinion. You are entitled to disagree, but keep in mind I was basically summing up why a group of people didn't like the dub. I wasn't attacking dub fandom.

I know you weren't attacking dub fandom and you are completely entitled to your own opinoins, but if you go back to what I was actually talking about all I said was that you were being biased and you proved it right their in your own words.

Everybody is biased. Some have positive bias and others have negative bias.

I know that, but in this situation a bias was hurting your argument. Everyone has a bias, but its difficult to talk about something like we were when the person you're talking to is so clearly biased.

[Raki]

I know you weren't attacking dub fandom and you are completely entitled to your own opinoins, but if you go back to what I was actually talking about all I said was that you were being biased and you proved it right their in your own words.

And music, again since I was talking about the early days first... um, do me a solid and track me down a Shuki Levy Dragon Ball Z CD. I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Find me a single track from back then that isn't Rock the Dragon. That isn't a bias- the music back then was meant to be simply noise to fill dead air. They weren't trying to sell CDs, and the compositions were done quickly, cheaply, and without much effort. Even Saban's Power Rangers music was done with more effort than what DBZ got. How is it a bias to say that something that absolutely nobody has ever said anything positive about was inferior to something that many people love and that still sells CDs to this day?

On a side note, I do believe Funi could have made a killing keeping the original score. With the amount of Dragonball musics CDs that were out in Japan, Funi could have just reprinted those and sell them to kids. I know I would have bought them.

I know that, but in this situation a bias was hurting your argument. Everyone has a bias, but its difficult to talk about something like we were when the person you're talking to is so clearly biased.

I honestly don't see how people stating their opinions hurt their argument.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[SSJ2bardock]

I know you weren't attacking dub fandom and you are completely entitled to your own opinoins, but if you go back to what I was actually talking about all I said was that you were being biased and you proved it right their in your own words.

And music, again since I was talking about the early days first... um, do me a solid and track me down a Shuki Levy Dragon Ball Z CD. I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Find me a single track from back then that isn't Rock the Dragon. That isn't a bias- the music back then was meant to be simply noise to fill dead air. They weren't trying to sell CDs, and the compositions were done quickly, cheaply, and without much effort. Even Saban's Power Rangers music was done with more effort than what DBZ got. How is it a bias to say that something that absolutely nobody has ever said anything positive about was inferior to something that many people love and that still sells CDs to this day?

On a side note, I do believe Funi could have made a killing keeping the original score. With the amount of Dragonball musics CDs that were out in Japan, Funi could have just reprinted those and sell them to kids. I know I would have bought them.

I know that, but in this situation a bias was hurting your argument. Everyone has a bias, but its difficult to talk about something like we were when the person you're talking to is so clearly biased.

I honestly don't see how people stating their opinions hurt their argument.

Because it was an argument where we were talking about the facts, not what your opinions about the dub are.

[Onikage725]

I made the initial statement on why "higher ups" and long time posters weren't dub fans. So... I hurt my "argument" simply by... making the statement? I wasn't even trying to argue. I tried to explain a mindset, and you seem offended by the notion of someone not liking the Saban BGM or an edited script.

Look, if someone sets out to translate something, but instead makes it up as they go along, with frequent fuck ups along the way, well sir that is a bad translation.

If you find an old parchment in a foreign language, and you take it to an expert, and he can't make heads or tales of it so he writes whatever he wants down... well you may find it an amusing read, but that doesn't change the fact that you just got ripped off. And it doesn't make you biased for calling him out on it.

And for the record, your own bias has shown through clearly. You got all in a huff about my calling the music terrible. Used quotations and everything about my unfair and biased blasting of the "terrible music." Yet I said "all of the music is replaced with the least expensive score that could be bought."

Fact 1- All of the music was replaced.
Fact 2- Saban (for S1 and 2) were notorious penny pinchers, and did everything as cheaply as possible. They didn't even pay their actors scale. Why do you think they had so much trouble keeping cast members on various shows?
Fact 3- FUNimation, when they picked up, wasn't exactly rolling in the funds. Bruce was who they could afford to get, and they put him on a tight schedule to hammer the music out in a timely manner.
Fact 4- Wanna go deeper? In the *other* english dub, they didnt even have the money to score it. They instead recycle music from other cartoons, like Mega Man.
Fact 5- I did not use the word terrible.

What was biased about my statement? DBZ has generally been scored in America on a budget- verifiable fact.

Oh, and poor scripts? Like I said- translation and localization, like what they did with YYH = good job.

But you seriously lose credibility at "Vegeta killed Grandpa Gohan." Anyone who would argue that this has been an airtight translation effort from start to finish has some bias' of their own to work out, no offense.

[SSJ2bardock]

I made the initial statement on why "higher ups" and long time posters weren't dub fans. So... I hurt my "argument" simply by... making the statement? I wasn't even trying to argue. I tried to explain a mindset, and you seem offended by the notion of someone not liking the Saban BGM or an edited script.

Look, if someone sets out to translate something, but instead makes it up as they go along, with frequent fuck ups along the way, well sir that is a bad translation.

If you find an old parchment in a foreign language, and you take it to an expert, and he can't make heads or tales of it so he writes whatever he wants down... well you may find it an amusing read, but that doesn't change the fact that you just got ripped off. And it doesn't make you biased for calling him out on it.

And for the record, your own bias has shown through clearly. You got all in a huff about my calling the music terrible. Used quotations and everything about my unfair and biased blasting of the "terrible music." Yet I said "all of the music is replaced with the least expensive score that could be bought."

Fact 1- All of the music was replaced.
Fact 2- Saban (for S1 and 2) were notorious penny pinchers, and did everything as cheaply as possible. They didn't even pay their actors scale. Why do you think they had so much trouble keeping cast members on various shows?
Fact 3- FUNimation, when they picked up, wasn't exactly rolling in the funds. Bruce was who they could afford to get, and they put him on a tight schedule to hammer the music out in a timely manner.
Fact 4- Wanna go deeper? In the *other* english dub, they didnt even have the money to score it. They instead recycle music from other cartoons, like Mega Man.
Fact 5- I did not use the word terrible.

What was biased about my statement? DBZ has generally been scored in America on a budget- verifiable fact.

Oh, and poor scripts? Like I said- translation and localization, like what they did with YYH = good job.

But you seriously lose credibility at "Vegeta killed Grandpa Gohan." Anyone who would argue that this has been an airtight translation effort from start to finish has some bias' of their own to work out, no offense.

Woah nelly, pull back the reigns there, I didn't get "all in a huff" I'm not even a little agitated. Sorry I misquoted you on the word 'terrible' that was just the way it was coming off to me. Sorry that I questioned the forsaken equilibrium of Japanese version good/English version bad. And lastly I'm sorry that I made a argument in defense of the dub, I should have just known my place as a lowly dub fan.

No for real though, no hard feelings, I was just enjoying a good debate with another fan and joking about the whole "lowaly dub fan" nonsense.

[Pain]

That's what I like about this forum. Good ol' debates.

[Raki]

I made the initial statement on why "higher ups" and long time posters weren't dub fans. So... I hurt my "argument" simply by... making the statement? I wasn't even trying to argue. I tried to explain a mindset, and you seem offended by the notion of someone not liking the Saban BGM or an edited script.

Fact 1- All of the music was replaced.
Fact 2- Saban (for S1 and 2) were notorious penny pinchers, and did everything as cheaply as possible. They didn't even pay their actors scale. Why do you think they had so much trouble keeping cast members on various shows?
Fact 3- FUNimation, when they picked up, wasn't exactly rolling in the funds. Bruce was who they could afford to get, and they put him on a tight schedule to hammer the music out in a timely manner.
Fact 4- Wanna go deeper? In the *other* english dub, they didnt even have the money to score it. They instead recycle music from other cartoons, like Mega Man.
Fact 5- I did not use the word terrible.

What was biased about my statement? DBZ has generally been scored in America on a budget- verifiable fact.

Funimation could have saved even more money by not changing the score at all.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Lobster_Rage155]

I made the initial statement on why "higher ups" and long time posters weren't dub fans. So... I hurt my "argument" simply by... making the statement? I wasn't even trying to argue. I tried to explain a mindset, and you seem offended by the notion of someone not liking the Saban BGM or an edited script.

Look, if someone sets out to translate something, but instead makes it up as they go along, with frequent fuck ups along the way, well sir that is a bad translation.

If you find an old parchment in a foreign language, and you take it to an expert, and he can't make heads or tales of it so he writes whatever he wants down... well you may find it an amusing read, but that doesn't change the fact that you just got ripped off. And it doesn't make you biased for calling him out on it.

And for the record, your own bias has shown through clearly. You got all in a huff about my calling the music terrible. Used quotations and everything about my unfair and biased blasting of the "terrible music." Yet I said "all of the music is replaced with the least expensive score that could be bought."

Fact 1- All of the music was replaced.
Fact 2- Saban (for S1 and 2) were notorious penny pinchers, and did everything as cheaply as possible. They didn't even pay their actors scale. Why do you think they had so much trouble keeping cast members on various shows?
Fact 3- FUNimation, when they picked up, wasn't exactly rolling in the funds. Bruce was who they could afford to get, and they put him on a tight schedule to hammer the music out in a timely manner.
Fact 4- Wanna go deeper? In the *other* english dub, they didnt even have the money to score it. They instead recycle music from other cartoons, like Mega Man.
Fact 5- I did not use the word terrible.

What was biased about my statement? DBZ has generally been scored in America on a budget- verifiable fact.

Oh, and poor scripts? Like I said- translation and localization, like what they did with YYH = good job.

But you seriously lose credibility at "Vegeta killed Grandpa Gohan." Anyone who would argue that this has been an airtight translation effort from start to finish has some bias' of their own to work out, no offense.

Woah nelly, pull back the reigns there, I didn't get "all in a huff" I'm not even a little agitated. Sorry I misquoted you on the word 'terrible' that was just the way it was coming off to me. Sorry that I questioned the forsaken equilibrium of Japanese version good/English version bad. And lastly I'm sorry that I made a argument in defense of the dub, I should have just known my place as a lowly dub fan.

...Did you even READ the post you just quoted?

[SSJ2bardock]

I made the initial statement on why "higher ups" and long time posters weren't dub fans. So... I hurt my "argument" simply by... making the statement? I wasn't even trying to argue. I tried to explain a mindset, and you seem offended by the notion of someone not liking the Saban BGM or an edited script.

Look, if someone sets out to translate something, but instead makes it up as they go along, with frequent fuck ups along the way, well sir that is a bad translation.

If you find an old parchment in a foreign language, and you take it to an expert, and he can't make heads or tales of it so he writes whatever he wants down... well you may find it an amusing read, but that doesn't change the fact that you just got ripped off. And it doesn't make you biased for calling him out on it.

And for the record, your own bias has shown through clearly. You got all in a huff about my calling the music terrible. Used quotations and everything about my unfair and biased blasting of the "terrible music." Yet I said "all of the music is replaced with the least expensive score that could be bought."

Fact 1- All of the music was replaced.
Fact 2- Saban (for S1 and 2) were notorious penny pinchers, and did everything as cheaply as possible. They didn't even pay their actors scale. Why do you think they had so much trouble keeping cast members on various shows?
Fact 3- FUNimation, when they picked up, wasn't exactly rolling in the funds. Bruce was who they could afford to get, and they put him on a tight schedule to hammer the music out in a timely manner.
Fact 4- Wanna go deeper? In the *other* english dub, they didnt even have the money to score it. They instead recycle music from other cartoons, like Mega Man.
Fact 5- I did not use the word terrible.

What was biased about my statement? DBZ has generally been scored in America on a budget- verifiable fact.

Oh, and poor scripts? Like I said- translation and localization, like what they did with YYH = good job.

But you seriously lose credibility at "Vegeta killed Grandpa Gohan." Anyone who would argue that this has been an airtight translation effort from start to finish has some bias' of their own to work out, no offense.

Woah nelly, pull back the reigns there, I didn't get "all in a huff" I'm not even a little agitated. Sorry I misquoted you on the word 'terrible' that was just the way it was coming off to me. Sorry that I questioned the forsaken equilibrium of Japanese version good/English version bad. And lastly I'm sorry that I made a argument in defense of the dub, I should have just known my place as a lowly dub fan.

...Did you even READ the post you just quoted?

Yes I actually read it pretty thoroughly and you left out the part of my quote where i said that I was only joking.

[Super Sonic]

I take it you don't like American cartoons or tv Kunzait? And Saban isn't too evil as Digimon Tamers was pretty much untouched except for buildings blowing up due to current events. And made one of the most X-Citing cartoons of the 90s.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Raki]

I take it you don't like American cartoons or tv Kunzait?

I have a few random exceptions but apart from those, no I really don't at all. I completely lost all interest in most "typical American kids cartoons" when I started watching anime (I was roughly 9 or 10-ish). The only exceptions were stuff that I felt weren't trying to insult my intelligence on a regular basis (like Batman: The Animated Series and Animaniacs).

By late junior high though, this period started where great swathes of my favorite shows (cartoons and otherwise) started dropping from the airwaves like flies, and my distaste for what was left on TV only got worse from there.

I stopped watching 90% of what was on TV by 8th grade, sticking only to Comedy Central and Cartoon Network. And by my Sophomore year of high school I cut those out mostly too.

These days the only shows left on TV I do genuinely like consist of; South Park, Futurama, Family Guy, Colbert Report, Daily Show, and most of the original non-anime Adult Swim programs (Venture Bros., Metalocalypse, Robot Chicken, Harvey Birdman, etc). And I only watch those very, very sparingly as it is.

My television has been used almost exclusively for DVDs and video games for many years now, and even my movie and gaming habits have been sorta drifting off lately. 85% of my free time that’s not spent out and about with friends I usually spend reading or writing nowadays.

That seems to be how life is going for me as well. Whatever stuff I watch is usually DVDs, and with work, I'm finding smaller time for that as well.

[SSj_Rambo]

I personally have never watched any anime other than Dragonball except for a bit of Pokemon here and there back in 2001 (and Ghost in the Shell and Akira, but those are in a league of their own). I never even really watched cartoons period, I was never allowed to watch Cartoon Network except early on Saturday mornings and I had only seen a few short previews for DBZ that never interested me. I have only been a fan of the series for about a year and a half now and the only time I have ever seen it on TV was the last few episodes of the imperfect Cell Saga when it was last played on Cartoon Network 18 months ago.

So ya, that's my sob story, nearly every bit of DBZ I've seen has been through the seasons sets.

*Six Hundredth Post!*

[Super Sonic]

Y'all make me feel old as I watched all the anime series on Nickelodeon, Superbook, Flying House, Voltron, Star Blazers, Speed Racer, Robotech, etc. Heck, when I was 3-4 I had Robotech undies.

[Big Momma]

Y'all make me feel old as I watched all the anime series on Nickelodeon, Superbook, Flying House, Voltron, Star Blazers, Speed Racer, Robotech, etc. Heck, when I was 3-4 I had Robotech undies.

You, sir, are my hero.

Superbook was actually the first uncut anime dub I ever saw. I remember watching the first episode(Adam and Eve) and thinking "Is THAT his private parts?! In a Cartoon?!"

And this was on television!(It was even TBN, a christian channel)

I have a few random exceptions but apart from those, no I really don't at all. I completely lost all interest in most "typical American kids cartoons" when I started watching anime (I was roughly 9 or 10-ish). The only exceptions were stuff that I felt weren't trying to insult my intelligence on a regular basis (like Batman: The Animated Series and Animaniacs).

By late junior high though, this period started where great swathes of my favorite shows (cartoons and otherwise) started dropping from the airwaves like flies, and my distaste for what was left on TV only got worse from there.

I stopped watching 90% of what was on TV by 8th grade, sticking only to Comedy Central and Cartoon Network. And by my Sophomore year of high school I cut those out mostly too.

These days the only shows left on TV I do genuinely like consist of; South Park, Futurama, Family Guy, Colbert Report, Daily Show, and most of the original non-anime Adult Swim programs (Venture Bros., Metalocalypse, Robot Chicken, Harvey Birdman, etc). And I only watch those very, very sparingly as it is.

My television has been used almost exclusively for DVDs and video games for many years now, and even my movie and gaming habits have been sorta drifting off lately. 85% of my free time that’s not spent out and about with friends I usually spend reading or writing nowadays.

I recommend watching the American version of "The Office" it's not half bad

But, I've felt myself becoming more and more like that too. I've been so busy with work/running/friends lately that I haven't had much time to just sit and draw or watch anime like I used to.

It sucks growing up sometimes...

[Captain Awesome]

I was raised on cartoons.

I'm the kind of guy who's dvd collection is comprised almost completely of animation, mind you I'm in my 20's now, and the sad thing I find is, other than old classics that I adore, I'm only picking up Anime on dvd, simply because I believe the standard for western animation as an entertainment medium has sunk so low that I can't stomach the majority of cartoons on today.

I really find that sad.

[Big Momma]

because I believe the standard for western animation as an entertainment medium has sunk so low that I can't stomach the majority of cartoons on today.

I really find that sad.

I've noticed this, too. I'm only 17, but I still remember watching Looney Tunes/etc. when I was younger. Back then, all kinds of violence/drugs/etc. were allowed on. people smoked, they drank, they dressed up in womans clothing(Bugs, I'm lookin at you) and no one even winked at it. Even in the 90s batman cartoon, guns were used all the time.

But now, action/humor have gotten so, for lack of a better word "generic". Everything is so watered down now. And the sad thing is, they continue to water down cartoons for the "moral safety" of kids, but yet society is getting worse and worse.


Sometimes I think, though, did people who were older back then think the same way about the shows I liked as a little kid as I think about the shows now?

[Onikage725]

I actually have a theory that its the parents who cant handle the imagery, not the kids.
I thought of this when hearing about how, in Japan, a Kamen Rider show a couple of years back (I want to say Kabuto, but don't quote me on that) had to be toned down. Parents complained that things like independently moving mouths and some of the projectile attacks for the monsters would scare the kiddies. Does anyone really think the kids would care? But see, when the parents were watching Kamen Rider as kids, the special effects sucked (not for the time, of course). So their imagery is of fairly fake-looking baddies, so they see something that looks mildly relaistic and spaz.

You know, like the stories one hears about people who used to flee theaters during the original Dracula film, but if any of us watched it, it would be a struggle to stay interested.

I'm also saying this because of the scores of chain mails I get from my grandmother and her friends and siblings about the better, simpler times of their childhood, and how much more wholesome their tv, music, and activites were.

But their parents thought their new stuff was a dangerous influence (especially the music).

And so the cycle continues.