Why change the script?

[aleksandrored]

As AliTheZombexam said, here we always use the original script for dubbing, using adaptations and changes only when necessary. This is a general rule for dubbing.

A very interesting comment I saw above was talking about wanting DBZ to look like an American cartoon.

But growing up watching anime in both the original and the American version (sometimes one after the other) I didn't see a big difference in terms of "this is more attractive or more interesting". You could see the differences, but nothing that made one more attractive than the other because of this factor.

An example that comes to mind is Digimon. Here we receive the original version (only the opening and names are from the American version). However, we don't receive the movies in the original version, but rather the American version "Digimon The Movie". You could notice that there was something very strange between the anime and the movie, the dialogue was very inconsistent with the TV series. But I liked both, even with the differences, I didn't feel that one was more attractive than the other.

I believe that the anime itself, whether with an American or Japanese script, is what draws attention. It is already something different on TV, different from things we were used to like Looney Tunes and Batman. Rewriting an entire script based on the issue of wanting to make the anime more like an American cartoon made no difference. Either way, the series would have been a success.

Now, regarding the issues of censorship or toning down certain scenes and dialogues, that is another story, as they involve several issues.

[Hellspawn28]

Anyway, I could easily pronounce most Japanese names with no problem.

Same here. I don't see how the Japanese names are any different than what was seen in video games at the time. Kids at the playgrounds and Arcades would yell out "Shoryuken", and " Tatsumaki Senpukyaku" with no problem. No reason why DB could not keep most of their Japanese attack names.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

You missed the point, its not that Dragon Ball was not special to Brazil but rather it wasnt back when it premiered. It got dubbed very well, but it was not an unprecendented dub of a defining classic, it got the exact same treatment "Generic kids show #65" did.

I got that, what I was trying to say was moreso maybe when Dragon Ball started to become popular in Brazil it may have had a knock-on effect with dubs making people value them more. Remember Dragon Ball was a lot of people's gateway to anime, they check it out, then check out other shows with whatever regional dub they get, the industry sees there's a market and more dubs are produced because of shows like Dragon Ball starting a chain reaction.

Even if we want to talk English dubbing it's reputation was far worse than it is today, and regardless of the flaws of Dragon Ball's English dubs it's success has allowed the industry to grow. One of the biggest complaints with Funimation's Super dub was that almost all of Funimation's modern day dubs is faithful to the source material without having to throw in jokes and punch up the dialogue.

And yes it wasn't uncommon back in the 90s and early 2000s for English anime dubs to heavily deviate from the source material. As aleksandrored has said Dragon Ball showed that kids anime could still be well loved with accurate scripts in many different languages, so why should English be any different?

The Pioneer movie dubs were proof that there was no reason to think Dragon Ball had to be Americanized in any way. It aired on Toonami US, was sold on home video, etc. By all accounts it did no worse than the series as Funimation was dubbing it at the time. Karl Willems directed not only the Pioneer movie trilogy but also many Ocean dubs, including the revered Death Note dub, but a lot of those anime probably wouldn't have been localised without the success of Dragon Ball, which again needed no liberties.

[Cure Dragon 255]

You missed the point, its not that Dragon Ball was not special to Brazil but rather it wasnt back when it premiered. It got dubbed very well, but it was not an unprecendented dub of a defining classic, it got the exact same treatment "Generic kids show #65" did.

I got that, what I was trying to say was moreso maybe when Dragon Ball started to become popular in Brazil it may have had a knock-on effect with dubs making people value them more. Remember Dragon Ball was a lot of people's gateway to anime, they check it out, then check out other shows with whatever regional dub they get, the industry sees there's a market and more dubs are produced because of shows like Dragon Ball starting a chain reaction.

Even if we want to talk English dubbing it's reputation was far worse than it is today, and regardless of the flaws of Dragon Ball's English dubs it's success has allowed the industry to grow. One of the biggest complaints with Funimation's Super dub was that almost all of Funimation's modern day dubs is faithful to the source material without having to throw in jokes and punch up the dialogue.

And yes it wasn't uncommon back in the 90s and early 2000s for English anime dubs to heavily deviate from the source material. As aleksandrored has said Dragon Ball showed that kids anime could still be well loved with accurate scripts in many different languages, so why should English be any different?

The Pioneer movie dubs were proof that there was no reason to think Dragon Ball had to be Americanized in any way. It aired on Toonami US, was sold on home video, etc. By all accounts it did no worse than the series as Funimation was dubbing it at the time. Karl Willems directed not only the Pioneer movie trilogy but also many Ocean dubs, including the revered Death Note dub, but a lot of those anime probably wouldn't have been localised without the success of Dragon Ball, which again needed no liberties.

You are correct, there was an anime that began the spark of fans noticing the voices and becoming huge fans of the dubbing endustry in razil ... But that anime was not Dragon Ball. It was Saint Seiya. I dont know if the quality was good but many dub actors from brazil comment that was when their fans became interested in who was behind the voices.

[aleksandrored]

Yes, Saint Seiya was the first anime to bring more attention to dubbing. The series was a huge success in the 90s and 00s. Saint Seiya had two dubs here, the first in 1994 and the second in 2003, both with practically the same cast, with the 2003 version being better.

Another anime that had a huge highlight in dubbing here was Yu Yu Hakusho. Like Saint Seiya, it had two dubs, one in 1997 and the other in 2004, with practically the same cast. One of the biggest drawbacks of the dubbing, besides the great voice cast, was the adaptation of the series' jokes. They captured the humor and style of the anime well, using jokes at the right moments and with very good humor. Yu Yu Hakusho is considered by many to be the best dub of an anime.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yes, Saint Seiya was the first anime to bring more attention to dubbing. The series was a huge success in the 90s and 00s. Saint Seiya had two dubs here, the first in 1994 and the second in 2003, both with practically the same cast, with the 2003 version being better.

Another anime that had a huge highlight in dubbing here was Yu Yu Hakusho. Like Saint Seiya, it had two dubs, one in 1997 and the other in 2004, with practically the same cast. One of the biggest drawbacks of the dubbing, besides the great voice cast, was the adaptation of the series' jokes. They captured the humor and style of the anime well, using jokes at the right moments and with very good humor. Yu Yu Hakusho is considered by many to be the best dub of an anime.

Finally TV Tropes was right about something! To be fair they said the actors themselves said it.

[nineko]

I don't really want to be off-topic, but Saint Seiya had an overhauled dub here in Italy as well. Aside from the usual name changes, they also revamped the style of the dialogues, to make them sound much more serious and classical, even citing poetries and literature. I have to admit that this does help to give Saint Seiya a mythological feel, which is deserved by the setting. One might argue that it's highly unlikely for those teenage orphans to talk with such an elegant and refined lexicon, but eh, it works. The Italian dub of Saint Seiya is often taken in high regard here.

To be clear, I'm not in favour of dubs, on the contrary, I'm against them and I always prefer to enjoy the original versions. I'm just saying that this particular one has its merits.

[Cure Dragon 255]

It makes me really sad to see people who outright hate dubs, but different strokes for different folks, and I grew up with a Saint Seiya dub that renamed Seiya to "Pegasus" I wouldnt love dubs either. And sub haters are sad to see too. All we had to stomach in the Mexican dub is several instances of the main heroes being called "Caballeros del Zodiaco" to make the title make sense, which is extremely annoying.

[GTx10]

People do realize the Bardock was a brilliant scientist line is changed in the Orange Brick/Remastered Dub right? That example isn't relevant anymore. Funny but merely a relic of the censored dub of the time.

You also realize we are talking about changed lines and thus WE ARE mostly talking about Ocean era/Early Funimation until Kai rewrites, Sure these were mostly redubbed in the later DVD's but the title isnt "When did Funimation correct the lines"

Sometimes it is hard to tell. Many fans (I'm speaking in general here) like to blame the English dub for lines such as this. (Which is fair of that old dub) But it comes up so often in discussion that it feels at times that fans aren't aware of the changes found in the "Remastered dub" found in the Orange Bricks/modern releases that I wonder; "Do these fans realize that such lines are no longer around in the Uncut/modern releases? That is why I said what I did.

I guess since I'm now aware that you are speaking about the old dub then the context makes sense.

[Hellspawn28]

I do remember the 2005 Ultimate Uncut dub still keep most of the dubisms from the 90s. You still had Goku thinking that Vegeta was the one who killed Granpa Gohan when he never said that originally.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

A lot of fans are generally not aware of the changes in the remastered dub.

Lines like Goku's "Hey mister" to Yajirobe (which was ripped from the driving test episode), 18 saying "Time for bonus points" before correcting Kuririn/Krillin about thinking herself and 17 were a couple, I could see 95% of fans missing but the absence of lines like brilliant scientist on the orange bricks stand out like a sore thumb.

You could possibly make an argument for the Boo arc being more noticeable. Goku's speech to Kid Boo before defeating him and Vegetto's monologue before being absorbed were included on the orange bricks but not the singles. Their inclusion in key moments helps though.

[MasenkoHA]

I do remember the 2005 Ultimate Uncut dub still keep most of the dubisms from the 90s. You still had Goku thinking that Vegeta was the one who killed Granpa Gohan when he never said that originally.

They actually fixed that one

https://youtu.be/fKrmFQ1Ucto?si=jLoXpLmRC9J1uagn


Although they did keep a lot of other errors like Snake Way being 10,000 miles, Planet Vegeta being destroyed 3 years ago, Gohan wanting to be an orthopedist, Goku being educated enough to know who Sir Isaac Newton is etc

[GTx10]

That is the issue. Many casual fans just remember Z for the big moments (SS2 Gohan and Goku's US SS3 theme) but how many people have actually watched the Orange Bricks and seen the changes to the script? To learn that Bardock isn't a scientist for example. I'm okay with Goku knowing Issac Newton because it works for the visual gag of King Kai's planet and it is just funny to me personally.

It is harmless to the story. Same with Kid Gohan's orthopedic line. I can hand that away as the sayings of child not knowing the big word he is saying. Plus nobody is watching that scene for Gohan's lines but rather for the conflict between Goku and Raditz.

I get it, the lines should be accurate to the JPN script Ala Kai but they ain't and so we have to deal with the cards we are given. Otherwise just watch English Kai then.

Hey if Christianity can exist in Dragon Ball (see Upa and Puar's fight with Fangs/Dracula.) then why can't Sir Issac Newton? Lol

[MasenkoHA]

That is the issue. Many casual fans just remember Z for the big moments (SS2 Gohan and Goku's US SS3 theme) but how many people have actually watched the Orange Bricks and seen the changes to the script?

Given how successful the Orange Bricks were, presumably a lot.

Hey if Christianity can exist in Dragon Ball (see Upa and Puar's fight with Fangs/Dracula.) then why can't Sir Issac Newton? Lol

No, that's not the problem. The problem is Goku, a country bumpkin with no formal education aside from some basic reading and arithmetic fromm Roshi, would absolutely not know who Newton is. It's a dumb line for the same reason Android 13 calling Goku "city boy" is dumb or Goku asking if he has to back to school in GT is dumb. It's like nobody at Funimation even paid attention to the first goddamn episode of Dragon Ball

[GTx10]

That is the issue. Many casual fans just remember Z for the big moments (SS2 Gohan and Goku's US SS3 theme) but how many people have actually watched the Orange Bricks and seen the changes to the script?

Given how successful the Orange Bricks were, presumably a lot.

Hey if Christianity can exist in Dragon Ball (see Upa and Puar's fight with Fangs/Dracula.) then why can't Sir Issac Newton? Lol

No, that's not the problem. The problem is Goku, a country bumpkin with no formal education aside from some basic reading and arithmetic fromm Roshi, would absolutely not know who Newton is. It's a dumb line for the same reason Android 13 calling Goku "city boy" is dumb or Goku asking if he has to back to school in GT is dumb. It's like nobody at Funimation even paid attention to the first goddamn episode of Dragon Ball

I can hand wave away Goku knowing about Issac Newton thanks to Gohan's study books and Chi-Chi's insistance of him studying. The Android 13 line is okay because 13 is portrayed as a red nick and I'm sure Goku is to "city boy" for his tastes. He is wrong though. The school line in GT... Yeah that is just wrong.

I struggle to hand wave that line away. I can admit that even the Remastered Dub does have bad/wrong moments. Like how the "Next Dimension" still does exist within the "Remastered Dub" at some points. Which is odd.

For like 98% they correctly used the words "Other World or Heaven/Hell but for like that small 2% we got the occasional "Next Dimension line." Why Sean didn't re-record more of his lines during the Namek Saga is a mystery to me. Vegeta and Kuririn got most of the changes that I can recall.

For the most part though the Remastered Dub does away with the "Bardock is a scientist" type of lines found in the old Saban Dub.

~"Cat loves food, yeah yeah!"~

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Considering all the evidence points towards the remastered dub being put together with tight deadlines I can't image Funimation would have been willing to go through and replace every instance of "next dimension", "another dimension" or any variant thereof. I don't recall where it was said, but as I recall Sean Schemmel didn't want to redub his lines because he wanted to show how far he'd come as an actor, either that or he couldn't because he was in New York and at the time Funimation wasn't willing to reimburse his flights (don't know if the latter was confirmed either but it's been widely cited as an explanation).

[GTx10]

Considering all the evidence points towards the remastered dub being put together with tight deadlines I can't image Funimation would have been willing to go through and replace every instance of "next dimension", "another dimension" or any variant thereof. I don't recall where it was said, but as I recall Sean Schemmel didn't want to redub his lines because he wanted to show how far he'd come as an actor, either that or he couldn't because he was in New York and at the time Funimation wasn't willing to reimburse his flights (don't know if the latter was confirmed either but it's been widely cited as an explanation).

I recall one instance actually. After Goku defeats Burter and Jesse runs away. The Z Fighters are discussing with Vegeta that Freeza has not used the DBs yet and Goku happily says that they can still wish everyone back from the next dimension. Since it is the Remastered Dub Vegeta's lines are replaced with modern (at the time) Sabat's voice.

I just happen to know that example off hand. (Ginyu's voice is completely re casted in these same Remastered episodes as well. Same goes for the narration voice being replaced too)

[Saiya6Cit]

Because they did not know how big dragon ball was going to be and that people would still care for it in 2024. They treated it as any other kids show and changing lines is a common practice in the industry, part of adaptation to a language-cultural group.

As pointed about by DBIreland in Latin America such changes are embraced and even considered for a project, for example Jose Antonio Macias was chosen for deadpool because of his impressive career and witty humor for adaptations, and itnapplies for many other talented people, thankfully.

Overall, as pointed out in a previous post, anyone truly interested in knowing DB's true version should watch the anime in Japanese with English/Spanish/whatever language subtitles.


We should be respectful at all times in regards to the jobs of the crew involved in any DB dub version, it is thanks to it that we have a diverse community and many of us would not know dragon ball of it was kept only in japanese.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Because they did not know how big dragon ball was going to be and that people would still care for it in 2024. They treated it as any other kids show and changing lines is a common practice in the industry, part of adaptation to a language-cultural group.

As pointed about by DBIreland in Latin America such changes are embraced and even considered for a project, for example Jose Antonio Macias was chosen for deadpool because of his impressive career and witty humor for adaptations, and itnapplies for many other talented people, thankfully.

Overall, as pointed out in a previous post, anyone truly interested in knowing DB's true version should watch the anime in Japanese with English/Spanish/whatever language subtitles.


We should be respectful at all times in regards to the jobs of the crew involved in any DB dub version, it is thanks to it that we have a diverse community and many of us would not know dragon ball of it was kept only in japanese.

I think this is wrong, but not entirely. IF the show/movie is a comedy, we do go all out with rewriting it, because humor doesnt always translate if kept intact. But if a show is a serious show or at least not all comedy Latin America respects the scripts.

[GTx10]

It is thing amongst the Spanish fans. Spanish fans don't get into Dragon Ball's comedy, for them it's all about the fights and transformations. When was the last time you saw a Spanish fan comic of Dragon Ball Z filled with humor? I love og DB's jokes for example, dirty Roshi, panty jokes and all.

But my buddy who is also a fan doesn't care about that stuff. But if he sees Vegeta punching Cell and screaming "Final Flash" he starts to cream his jeans. Personally I wonder how Latin dub handled og DB's humor, out of curiosity anyway.

Wasn't it said that Funimation used the Spanish translation for scripting back in the day? I may be wrong about that. Because if you watch the Remastered Dub (as found on the Orange Bricks for example) then the Kai dub it isn't as different as you think. Yes some lines are super different like "Hope of the universe..." vs "I am the Super Saiyan..." but others are not.

Watch Vegeta's first SS transformation for example. Outside of some 90'sness to the lines the story is the same. Piccolo gets hit on purpose to flank Gero. Vegeta says Goku's pure heart isn't the only way to be a SS and he asks if #19 knows fear. It's all there.

I think fans are to hard on the Remastered Dub and/or they haven't watched it and assume the old TV dubs are still present. Their is a reason why the back of the dvd box says "Newly revised English dialogue." It's a patch work yes, but it's alright at best.