If Dragon Ball is a worldwide mainstream children's franchise...

[TechExpert2021]

I felt that the Dragon Ball franchise is no longer marketed towards kids in Western countries, in comparison to Japan where the franchise has always been marketed towards kids there, hence being marketed towards the shonen (young boys) demographic.

But what if the Dragon Ball franchise is a worldwide mainstream children's franchise similar to Pokémon or Mario? If it was like that, I would imagine the following:

- The entire Dragon Ball anime series (DB, Z, GT, Kai, Super, and Daima) becoming available on mainstream streaming platforms outside Japan. I know Hulu already has most of them, but I think the Dragon Ball anime series will get more exposure if they're on Netflix or Disney+.

- The entire DB anime series broadcast on an actual children's channel or at afternoon or prime time slots on a national broadcast channel outside Japan. No midnight airings.

- Food products bearing the Dragon Ball branding and its characters.

- Maybe Dragon Ball educational games aimed exclusively towards kids. Note that OG DB has two PSAs that aired in 1988 in Japan.

What do you guys think of this?

[Cure Dragon 255]

I felt that the Dragon Ball franchise is no longer marketed towards kids in Western countries, in comparison to Japan where the franchise has always been marketed towards kids there, hence being marketed towards the shonen (young boys) demographic.

But what if the Dragon Ball franchise is a worldwide mainstream children's franchise similar to Pokémon or Mario? If it was like that, I would imagine the following:

- The entire Dragon Ball anime series (DB, Z, GT, Kai, Super, and Daima) becoming available on mainstream streaming platforms outside Japan. I know Hulu already has most of them, but I think the Dragon Ball anime series will get more exposure if they're on Netflix or Disney+.

- The entire DB anime series broadcast on an actual children's channel or at afternoon or prime time slots on a national broadcast channel outside Japan. No midnight airings.

- Food products bearing the Dragon Ball branding and its characters.

- Maybe Dragon Ball educational games aimed exclusively towards kids. Note that OG DB has two PSAs that aired in 1988 in Japan.

What do you guys think of this?

First I have to say you are one of my fave posters around here. Your takes and posts/Threads are always great. And citation needed on Disney+. The streaming service IS mainstream and IT IS BIG with kids, but anime goes there to die. It is released... and if you know it good, but it gets NO PROMOTION.

And the fact that it isnt on a huge streamer also allows for it to be aired on local channels, and Toei is BIG on it airing locally on major broadcasters.

[MasenkoHA]

I wouldn't say it's no longer marketed at children in the West. Funimatation's edited dub of Dragon Ball Super aired on Pop. Fortnite which is big with kids and teens had licensed the IP among with the 50,000 other IPs they license (anecdotelly the Fortnite promotion seems to be a big reason kids under 16 appear to even know what a Goku is). Conveniently, the two most recent Dragon Ball series (and subsequently the ones gen z and gen alpha are more likely to watch) are on Hulu with their English dubs. Latin American countries still play Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z on Cartoon Network and other stations for kids to watch

[Cure Dragon 255]

I wouldn't say it's no longer marketed at children in the West. Funimatation's edited dub of Dragon Ball Super aired on Pop. Fortnite which is big with kids and teens had licensed the IP among with the 50,000 other IPs they license (anecdotelly the Fortnite promotion seems to be a big reason kids under 16 appear to even know what a Goku is). Conveniently, the two most recent Dragon Ball series (and subsequently the ones gen z and gen alpha are more likely to watch) are on Hulu with their English dubs. Latin American countries still play Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z on Adult Swim and other stations for kids to watch

Fix'd but you are not wrong because it just flipped channels. While the channel may not be the same, Adult Swim is still a huge success with kids, it basically airs cookie commercials along with other mainstays of kids ads like Arcor Jelly and so on. Family Friendly mainstream ads.

It just dawned on me I have to explain what is Arcor is, its a huge company in Argentina and Paraguay that sells food goods especially sweets kids like.

Also, they could Toei could sell DB to Netflix... and then only a small population would see it, while RIGHT NOW it can air on local broadcast networks and be seen by 11% of the population of that country.

[JulieYBM]

The world is different from when I was a child, so it really doesn't surprise me to see Dragon Ball marketed in a different way compared to 25 years ago. North American rights holders reach the youth market through different means now, like the aforementioned Fortnite. Furthermore, the internet plays a far bigger role in reaching young people in 2024 than it did in 2000. Kids have access to the social media marketing and manga and YouTube advertising that older fans didn't have when we were their age.

Things change.

[Hellspawn28]

I feel like Dragon Ball currently relies a lot on nostalgia in order to maintain a semblance of relevance much like how Digimon does. Both of their franchises have new movies with limited releases and their shows are not market to kids in the states. At least, DB is still more relevant with it appearing in games like Fornite, having popular memes, and having more marketing towards its newer shows like Super.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I feel like Dragon Ball currently relies a lot on nostalgia in order to maintain a semblance of relevance much like how Digimon does. Both of their franchises have new movies with limited releases and their shows are not market to kids in the states. At least, DB is still more relevant with it appearing in games like Fornite, having popular memes, and having more marketing towards its newer shows like Super.

I think the Digimon comparison works until the point that their box office perfermance shows DB is a massive success, Digimon does just hopelessly try to relive the glory days of yore, but fails at it utterly... Sans airing on some countries again. The old anime natch.

[MrSatan2099]

Well there is the inexplicable Reese's Puffs cross promotion.

[VegettoEX]

This obsession I'm seeing from particular users over the last couple years about television airings is really getting to me (on a few different levels that I'm growing increasingly comfortable with expressing). As someone into their 40s, I certainly won't claim to be the paragon of "hip"... but these statements are so out of touch with reality that it's actually making me question how in tune I might be.

Do you have children of your own? No? Nieces? Nephews? Friends with children?

Kids do not watch (traditional broadcast) TV. End of line. Stop. Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

If your aim is to get anything other than the 50+ crowd, there is no reason for Dragon Ball to be on traditional broadcast television or cable.

I do not know how to be more clear about this.

[GhostEmperorX]

But what if the Dragon Ball franchise is a worldwide mainstream children's franchise similar to Pokémon or Mario?

If I'm understanding this right, would it mean that like at least one of these, it sticks to outdated localization practices, doesn't get uncut (or subbed) releases, and all that which typically happens with those kinds of anime or other shows still being marketed to children?
If so, no thanks...

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The entire Dragon Ball anime series (DB, Z, GT, Kai, Super, and Daima) becoming available on mainstream streaming platforms outside Japan. I know Hulu already has most of them, but I think the Dragon Ball anime series will get more exposure if they're on Netflix or Disney+.

I agree with this, Crunchyroll is not the right platform for Dragon Ball because its a service for anime fans, not your average Joe, its for those dedicated to the medium, which are mostly adults. Lots of kids have Netflix on all their devices, less have Crunchyroll, so the former would give Dragon Ball more exposure to the intended audience.

The entire DB anime series broadcast on an actual children's channel or at afternoon or prime time slots on a national broadcast channel outside Japan. No midnight airings.

While I understand VegettoEX's sentiment traditional TV is nowhere near what it used to be, there is still a market out there, if there wasn't they would all be closed fown. I agree it would be ideal for Dragon Ball to air on a mainstream kids channel if it is still running, like Cartoon Network. Super airing exclusively on Toonami in the US was a mistake for example.

Interestingly, Super performed better on traditional TV in the UK in 2019 than Kai did in 2013. The highest number of viewers Kai got was 39,000-43,000 and Super got over 100,000. I know there was far more hype around Super for being a new show but that's still impressive considering how much traditional TV would have declined in those 6 years.

[Hellspawn28]

I seen a few kids in my local area with DB t-shirts and dress up as Goku for Halloween. So the late Gen Z and Alpha kids are aware that Dragon Ball exist from what I've seen.

[MasenkoHA]

I seen a few kids in my local area with DB t-shirts and dress up as Goku for Halloween. So the late Gen Z and Alpha kids are aware that Dragon Ball exist from what I've seen.

Yeah the Fortnite cross promotion probably helped a lot with that.

Last Halloween my friend's son wanted to be "Goku from Fortnite"

[Saiya6Cit]

Kids do not watch (traditional broadcast) TV. End of line. Stop.

True.

DB is not being targeted to minors. Good. I preffer it that way.

Worldwide it has been agreed that violence and sexually related topics are not suitable for underaged people given the fact that their brain is still developing along with their criteria.

I prefer Dragon Ball to be rated M while keeping it uncensored, than for it to be rated AA but all cutoff and "retouched".

When showing DB to kids you should always skip what I call "the Roshi parts". Whilst you could explain that radditz dies because of a big hole in his body to a child, and even use it as education to prevent mayor bodily injuries (if you may) I find it out of the question to explain to same child that krillin gave dirty magazines to Roshi in exchange of training.

Just saiyan...

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball will never be R/M rated. I doubt Shueisha will ever go for that.

[Kunzait_83]

Worldwide it has been agreed that violence and sexually related topics are not suitable for underaged people given the fact that their brain is still developing along with their criteria.

No. This is not only factually incorrect, most studies over the years have shown the exact opposite to be true.

The fact that children's brains are still developing means that its actually BENEFICIAL for them to have a better, more comprehensive understanding of human sexuality and violence earlier on rather than later on, when the brain grows more increasingly ossified and resistant to new information. That doesn't mean obviously that children should be exposed to these things in real life of course (which is obviously traumatizing and dangerous as hell): but learning this knowledge in a safe way is HUGELY beneficial to child development. And media provides a safe way for children to learn and be taught basic dynamics about these kinds of topics.

Its IGNORANCE about these things that are detrimental to a kid's development, and it can yield incredibly damaging psychological effects later on in life to be kept overly insulated and sheltered.

In point of fact, studies about sexual predation of children have long shown that the more educated a kid is about sex earlier on in life, the better they're able to protect and guard themselves from predators and pedophiles.

As always, knowledge is power.

When showing DB to kids you should always skip what I call "the Roshi parts".

People, by and large anyway (and outside of ultra conservative/reactionary circles), don't have a problem with the Roshi material in DB because it contains sexuality in a piece of kid's media: they have a problem with it because the Roshi "sex jokes" send the inherently gross, fucked up message that sexual assault is funny, silly, goofy, and generally harmless or something to be flippant about.

The problem is not that there's sex jokes in and of themselves in Dragon Ball: its what Dragon Ball's sex jokes are SAYING about unwanted, non-consensual sex acts ("haha, funny and cute!" instead of "yeah, don't do this, its super fucked up and harmful"). Its all in how they're presented and structured, not that the topic is even there at all in the first place.

Sexual content - at least to a moderate degree - in kid's media that's done with some manner of thought and care (up to and including just not being generally misogynistic: which shouldn't be a particularly tall order one would think) would be harmless at worst and generally beneficial and helping with child development and education at best.

The problem with Dragon Ball's Muten Roshi sex jokes is that they are neither thoughtful nor careful and are instead both irresponsibly handled and very misogynistic and put out a generally repulsive message (intentional or not) about sexually predatory behavior. To take away from it that the problem is ANY hint of sexuality in a piece of kids media at all, regardless of context or how its presented, is just unhelpfully reductive and overly simplistic in general.

The takeaway from this should be "if you're going to have some manner of sexual content in a piece of kids' media, even of a humorous or jokey nature, then at least put some genuine fucking thought and care into it about what its saying to them about the subject". Not "children are overly sensitive China glass, and we must shelter and coddle the fuck out of them at all times and at all costs".

The latter is, I would argue, in some ways almost or just as harmful as exposing kids to media content that handles these subjects irresponsibly or in a toxic manner. The goal should be for kids to be taught GOOD lessons about these things: not teaching them anything about it at all and shielding them from it, to me, isn't ultimately that far removed from teaching them bad/harmful lessons about it.

I know, god forbid any of us should have to put in any serious effort or thought/consideration into how we teach and communicate with our kids about the world: everyone just wants an easy, no-effort fix. And the old Tipper Gore-esque helicopter parenting style of "just shield your kids from everything bad or ugly in the world at all costs" that Soccer moms the world over have been sticking to is just as lazy, irresponsible, and harmful as not giving a shit what they look at entirely.

The former is NOT being a good parent or guardian anymore than the latter is. Neither of those extremes does the messy, difficult, but ultimately needed and important effort of y'know... teaching and raising kids properly. Which requires - brace yourselves - actually talking to your kids and engaging with them and their viewpoints as if they're people just like you are. Horror of horrors, I know.

And as far as the violence goes: children in Japan in the 80s and 90s grew up on FAR more violent content than Dragon Ball. Fist of the North Star's violence - to use a flogged to death example - makes Dragon Ball's violence look like a Disney film. Yu Yu Hakusho's violence was also pretty extreme as well.

Not a single kid in Japan was turned into a crazed serial killer by any of this. Instead, Japan has some of the lowest levels of violence - relatively speaking - in the developed world. Its been consistently within the top ten most peaceful and safe countries on the planet for longer than most people in this forum have been alive.

And unlike a lot of incredibly ridiculous people in this community, I DO NOT believe that there is something inherent and intrinsic in Japanese children or culture that makes them some sort of "exception" to this to be set aside from the rest of us. Japanese people, all due respect in the world to them, are not special or exceptional in any way from anyone else in the world. Literally NO group of people on the planet are. Fundamentally speaking, we're all just fucking regular-ass human beings.

I genuinely think, based on all the mountains of evidence available, that violent kids' media in and of itself wouldn't suddenly turn all kids into a bunch of monsters and society would not collapse from it. There are FAR worse, real, serious, actual problems in the world that are WAY more of a serious threat to kids' safety than some blood and some boobs in a cartoon aimed at them. I think that if Japanese cultural norms surrounding kids' anime is special in any way about this, its in proving how much violent/sexual content (when handled and presented well of course) is IN NO WAY harmful in the absolute slightest to kids.

Japanese children in the 80s are not space aliens or creatures from another dimension: they are EXACTLY the same as our kids here in America today in 2024. They're just kids. And kids are just human like the rest of us.

And frankly, I've always found it kind of gross how much people in the West "exoticize" Japanese people and their culture in these kinds of discussions ("they're just different from us, our cultures are too far removed" etc.) like they're gazing into some extra-terrestrial ant-farm whenever they look at Japanese media relative to ours.

If anything, we should simply take from them that a lot of this "moral panic/won't someone PLEASE think of the children!" bullshit we in the West waste so much time and energy obsessing over - to the point of grown-ass men and women wasting YEARS of their lives pouring over and obsessively nitpicking the content of Disney slop in the name of "protecting their kids" (as if there aren't actual, real life dangerous threats and dangerous people in the world to protect their kids from, and the worst, most traumatically harrowing thing that could ever happen to a kid is seeing a bra strap or panty line in a cartoon aimed at them) - is just a complete red herring that does absolutely NOTHING to help or protect kids from anything that's of any real, tangible threat to them and their wellbeing.

And all of that to say is that there isn't still PLENTY in Japanese media - for kids and otherwise - that's there and ripe for valid critiquing! Dragon Ball's Muten Roshi jokes are FAR from an isolated outlier of an example of poorly handled, misogynistic sex jokes in a piece of kids media over there (there's more than plenty of examples which I find to be particularly disgusting and repugnant). But there's also plenty of examples of sexual content in their media handled well and with vastly more thought, which I am absolutely all in favor of.

Again, the takeaway should be "do this better" not "never, ever do it at all".

[Hellspawn28]

Honestly, you can find things more disturbing and gross in religion texts than you can in a Japanese kids cartoon. Reading the bible at a young age scared me more than any horror film did.

[JulieYBM]

I'm just repeating Kunzait, but yeah: the problem Dragon Ball's depiction of sexuality is how it is misogynistic as all hell. It's not about educating young people about how to have healthy relationships with these topics, it's about mocking the notion that these things are sensitive. It's quasi-trying to 'punch up' as subjects that are inherently and historically 'punched down' on.

The Roushi stuff is harmful and Dragon Ball needs to acknowledge that so it can move on.

[MasenkoHA]

I do want to add most of Dragon Balls sexual humor is juvenile "teehee boobies" and " haha weiners are funny." Which is fine because that's what generally where most 8 year olds are at. It really is just the dismissive attitude towards sexual harrassment and assault that brings it down and like Kunzait said it's not that it's age inappropriate it's that it is so just so misogynistic and nonchalant that sexual assault "aint no big deal and that's just a horny old man being his kooky self" It would be horrible even if Dragon Ball was aimed at adults.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I remember in school one of my ex-friends disagreed when some of the autistic boys (I'm on the spectrum myself, but very mild, these guys were further down the non-verbal end) were being taught sex education because he didn't honestly believe they would ever be in a serious relationship, which I felt was wrong. Hell there's been Down Syndrome couples who married. Even if they were never so lucky it's demeaning to shelter anyone from these things provided they are taught the importance of consent, and sadly its not just kids treated this way, teenagers with all kinds of disabilities are underestimated.

I've seen a similar sentiment here in the west of Ireland that kids should be taught marriage is the civil and legal union of a man and a woman, despite the fact there's been no such restriction since our marriage referendum passed 9 years ago. I and many other likeminded liberal friends and family agree marriage is for everyone at or above the age of consent, the only thing that would be confusing for kids is teaching them there's any more limitations as they will inevitably hear of same sex couples but they need to know from a young age nothing is wrong with that.

Sadly Dragon Ball has never dealt with these topics well, but I hope in time we will see new stories that can introduce kids to these ideas without being preachy. I agree with Kunzait it's very enriching for them to open their minds from a young age. Although I guess as he will say more adult-skewing media exists for a reason, not as a replacement for kids shows like Dragon Ball after a certain age, but as an addition and crucial part of a healthy media diet.