About DBS Goku

[super michael]

I am creating this topic, so we can talk about DBS Goku. I would like to know what people thinks about him.

[SupremeKai25]

I like him. He's clearly more mature than DBZ Goku, as evidenced by the fact that he's not forcing anyone to fight like he did with his own child when he carelessly and selfishly threw him to the wolves. He also seems to be much smarter and a better judge of character than DBZ Goku, as shown when he understood that a traditional enemy, Freeza, was the only way U7 could stand a chance. The fact that Goku could overcome his Saiyan pride, Saiyan grudges, and Saiyan hatred to make an alliance with Frieza says a lot about his personal growth as a warrior and as a man.

This cannot be said enough, he's improved so much as a father. He actually has a job now, he works as a farmer, and he earns good, honest money for his family, and he also spends a lot of time with Goten. Poor kid never knew his father until he was 7, I'm honestly happy that Goku has improved so much from his terrible DBZ ""parenting"" days.

I'm not sure in what area DBZ Goku is superior to DBS Goku beside maybe having bigger biceps (it depends on the form though ).

[MasenkoHA]

With all due respect, there are already like 1000 different topics and discussions about Super Goku. It's one of the most brought up topics about modern Dragon Ball. I think you've brought up Super Goku in nearly every other one of your post. Does he really need a dedicated thread?

[super michael]

In Goku defense, Goku didn't see or hear that Gohan doesn't like to fight like Goku. Goku never saw that Gohan had a problem killing someone evil.
Goku has been training with Gohan for almost 4 years before the Cell Tournament. 3 years with Piccolo and Gohan before the Android and almost 1 year in the ROSAT with Gohan.

Goku chose Gohan to fight against Cell, since Gohan was the strongest in the group. No one stood a chance against him.

I like that point about DBS Goku putting his anger aside to recruit Freeza.


DBS Goku getting a job was him keeping a promise that he made in the Cell Saga. He could train with Gohan in the ROSAT, with the condition that Goku gets a job once Cell is taken care of.

[super michael]

DBZ Goku was better in these areas:

- Goku relied on meditation to unlock new SSJ forms. Then instantly knew about the new form weakness.
- Goku was so good at using his powers efficiently, that he could fool the scouters.
- Goku offers advice on how to train and even says the best place to train. He doesn't force anyone to train and has no problem how others train.
- Goku has patience to train, he doesn't mind if other trains before him. He doesn't mind to wait.
- Goku acknowledges his mistakes, such as letting Vegeta go and not realising that Gohan doesn't like to kill or fight like himself.


That is a short list of what DBZ Goku does better than DBS.


Edit before it is too late. Can a moderator move this to the DBS section? I posted in the general section by accident.

[Grimlock]

He is dumb.

[The Monkey King]

A regressed character do doubt. Should've stayed retired as the main character after the Cell saga like Toriyama originally planned.

The last interesting thing he had to say was in Battle of Gods when he felt conflicted about being granted Godlike power without having to work for it.

[Peach]

I think he's "Flanderized" at parts with exaggerated stupidity.

I hate what Toei did to his character at times. Specific moments I thought he had an exaggerated sense of stupidity were when he thought Monaka is strong, when he thought Beerus in a Monaka costume was Monaka, when he accidentally instant transmissions to Bulma in the bathroom, him not knowing what a kiss was, and him forgetting Pan. I hate that stupid "^_^" face Toei gave Goku with the playful "chi'yaaaaa" noises constantly.

We saw Goku mature as a person in Z. Realizing that he's not going to be around forever, that he needs a successor, that he needs to put his trust in the next generation of warriors. Goku learned to understand his limitations and surrender against Cell. The humbleness was continued in Battle of Gods when he quit against Beerus in the end. He matured into man who understood that he can't win every fight. He also took the fate of the universe seriously.

... in Super, he puts his universe at risk for the thrill of a fight constantly. I actually think GT got his personality better than Super.

I think Toriyama does a good job of writing Goku when he's writing the script himself like in the movies. In the content Toei had to create between Toriyama's notes, Goku was turned into an exaggerated idiot and his character development was forgotten.

[TechExpert2021]

Goku in DB Super is dumber than Goku in OG DB, DBZ, and DBGT. What was the purpose of Toei making Goku dumb in Super?

[SupremeKai25]

He is dumb.

Yeah bro, Goku was totally stoic and serious in the Majin Buu fight. He really became Kakarot back then.

[super michael]

He is dumb.

Yeah bro, Goku was totally stoic and serious in the Majin Buu fight. He really became Kakarot back then.

He took it serious when Vegeta was killing innocent people.
He enjoys fighting, but he wanted to use his time to teach and train Goten and Trunks, so someone can defeat the evil Boo now and any future villains.

As for not using SSJ3, Goku gave his reasons, even if you don't agree with it.

One of DBS problem is Goku does dumb things way too often and does it constantly. Even things Goku should be smart, they ignore it for the sake of gag.
Basically the problem with DBS is that they go overboard in making Goku dumb.

[SupremeKai25]

He is dumb.

Yeah bro, Goku was totally stoic and serious in the Majin Buu fight. He really became Kakarot back then.

He took it serious when Vegeta was killing innocent people.
He enjoys fighting, but he wanted to use his time to teach and train Goten and Trunks, so someone can defeat the evil Boo now and any future villains.

As for not using SSJ3, Goku gave his reasons, even if you don't agree with it.

One of DBS problem is Goku does dumb things way too often and does it constantly. Even things Goku should be smart, they ignore it for the sake of gag.
Basically the problem with DBS is that they go overboard in making Goku dumb.

Did he have a plan when he destroyed the potara earrings even though no one there could stop Kid Buu? Or was that him reverting to his Kakarot persona (stoic/badass/serious/cold)?

[super michael]

Yeah bro, Goku was totally stoic and serious in the Majin Buu fight. He really became Kakarot back then.

He took it serious when Vegeta was killing innocent people.
He enjoys fighting, but he wanted to use his time to teach and train Goten and Trunks, so someone can defeat the evil Boo now and any future villains.

As for not using SSJ3, Goku gave his reasons, even if you don't agree with it.

One of DBS problem is Goku does dumb things way too often and does it constantly. Even things Goku should be smart, they ignore it for the sake of gag.
Basically the problem with DBS is that they go overboard in making Goku dumb.

Did he have a plan when he destroyed the potara earrings even though no one there could stop Kid Buu? Or was that him reverting to his Kakarot persona (stoic/badass/serious/cold)?

No Goku did not have a plan if he failed to kill Kid Boo. However we saw Vegeta was going to destroy the Potara, until Goku started to speak about not wanting to fuse. Then they both crashed the Potara.

Goku plan to charge his ki to full power in 1 minute failed, since he didn't know SSJ3 strain and drain would be greater in a living body.

Almost forgot Goku had no intention on letting Vegeta fight, since the risk for Vegeta was high. If Vegeta dies while he is dead, he would cease to exist.
He only let Vegeta fight when there was no other choice but to charge his ki or charge his Genki Dama.

[The Monkey King]

He's clearly more mature than DBZ Goku

Forgot the Mafuba seal and senzu beans that led to the entire destruction of Future Trunks' timeline, remind me did Goku from the original manga ever forget the senzu beans...? Becuase I don't think he did

Offered to let Golden Freeza go in Resurrection F - Contrast this with Cell Games Goku who knew a threat like Cell should be killed.

Forgot what meditation was in Super Hero

Backed Moro into a corner until he threatened to destroy the entire galaxy by turning himself into a bomb. In turn making Goku as dumb as a 9-year old SSJ2 Gohan high on bloodlust.

[SupremeKai25]

He's clearly more mature than DBZ Goku

Forgot the Mafuba seal and senzu beans that led to the entire destruction of Future Trunks' timeline, remind me did Goku from the original manga ever forget the senzu beans...? Becuase I don't think he did

Considering how DBZ briefly turned Gohan into an idiot who can't catch an earring, I have become rather desensitized to the protagonists' IQ in a series like Dragon Ball. Their IQ will fluctuate, but let's not act like DBZ didn't also do this when it had gems like this lol:

Offered to let Golden Freeza go in Resurrection F - Contrast this with Cell Games Goku who knew a threat like Cell should be killed.

In line with letting Vegeta go in the Saiyan saga.

Forgot what meditation was in Super Hero

Pretty much the only indefensible Goku moment from DBS and it came from Toriyama.

Backed Moro into a corner until he threatened to destroy the entire galaxy by turning himself into a bomb. In turn making Goku as dumb as a 9-year old SSJ2 Gohan high on bloodlust.

This is just hindsight. Yeah, in hindsight he should have just killed Moro right away, but he didn't know Moro's severed arm with the stored Angel power was still lying on the battlefield.

From his perspective and the knowledge he had available at the time, why kill Moro when you can give him the opportunity to reform in jail? Goku isn't a bloodlusted killer.

[Zephyr]

Offered to let Golden Freeza go in Resurrection F - Contrast this with Cell Games Goku who knew a threat like Cell should be killed.

Offering to let Golden Freeza go tracks with Goku's behavior going all the way back to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai against Piccolo.

He let Piccolo have a free hit, he let Piccolo go and hoped he would get stronger, he let Vegeta go, he let Freeza power up to 100%, he (tried to) let Freeza go (twice) on Namek, he wanted to test himself against the Androids, he gave Cell a senzu so Gohan (onto whom he was projecting) could have a fair fight, he sought a fight with Vegeta despite Kaioshin (the main guy wanting to prevent Boo's release) urging him not to, and crushed the second Potara given to him since it wouldn't be fair to the now unfused Boo.

People are free to not like that this is who Son Goku is, in both the original run and in the revival era, but this is who Son Goku is. It is not "his Kakarot persona".

[super michael]

Offered to let Golden Freeza go in Resurrection F - Contrast this with Cell Games Goku who knew a threat like Cell should be killed.

Offering to let Golden Freeza go tracks with Goku's behavior going all the way back to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai against Piccolo.

He let Piccolo have a free hit, he let Piccolo go and hoped he would get stronger, he let Vegeta go, he let Freeza power up to 100%, he (tried to) let Freeza go (twice) on Namek, he wanted to test himself against the Androids, he gave Cell a senzu so Gohan (onto whom he was projecting) could have a fair fight, he sought a fight with Vegeta despite Kaioshin (the main guy wanting to prevent Boo's release) urging him not to, and crushed the second Potara given to him since it wouldn't be fair to the now unfused Boo.

People are free to not like that this is who Son Goku is, in both the original run and in the revival era, but this is who Son Goku is. It is not "his Kakarot persona".

Goku wanted to win the tournament fair and square against Piccolo, one can say it was selfish putting the tournament before the safety of the earth. Killing Piccolo is out of the question, since killing him would mean Kami dies. However wanting Piccolo to get stronger to fight again was selfish.

Goku acknowledged that letting Vegeta go was a mistake, Goku himself said it.

Goku said it why he wanted to fight Freeza at his best. The first reason is to fight the strongest being in the universe (selfish), the second reason was the avenge Kuririn (selfish but good at the same time) and the third reason so Freeza lose against a Saiyan (selfish). However Goku said he didn't want to see Freeza ever again.
In RoF Goku wanted Freeza to get stronger and fight him again, which goes against what Goku said on Namek.

As for the Android Goku gave two reason why he didn't kill them before they attacked. The first reason was because Goku wanted to fight them (selfish) and because they haven't done anything bad yet (good). Giving Cell a senzu bean there was no good reason at all.
Goku acknowledged he made some mistakes, when they were getting beat up by Cell Jrs.

If Goku listened to Kaioshin and didn't fight Vegeta, then Vegeta would continue killing more innocent people. Vegeta gave Goku two choice, either fight him or innocent people dies.
As for Goku destroying the Potara, there was no good reason.


However the amount of time that Goku does dumb thing is greater in DBS compared to DBZ. The things that Goku is good in DBZ, somehow he isn't good in DBS.

[The Monkey King]

Offering to let Golden Freeza go tracks with Goku's behavior going all the way back to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai against Piccolo.

Sorry no, we're given more insight as to why Goku let Piccolo go in the saiyan saga



He sensed good in him, as opposed to a pure evil scumbag like Freeza

He let Piccolo have a free hit, he let Piccolo go and hoped he would get stronger, he let Vegeta go, he let Freeza power up to 100%, he (tried to) let Freeza go (twice) on Namek, he wanted to test himself against the Androids, he gave Cell a senzu so Gohan (onto whom he was projecting) could have a fair fight, he sought a fight with Vegeta despite Kaioshin (the main guy wanting to prevent Boo's release) urging him not to, and crushed the second Potara given to him since it wouldn't be fair to the now unfused Boo.

Nope. None of this compares to letting a being who wants to kill you and everyone you love and almost leap frogged decades of your training in a few months train more in order to get even stronger.

Especially since, this is the same guy who tried to stab Goku in the back when he tried to have mercy on him and we know Goku straight up killed Freeza and Cold in the alternate timeline and was planning on doing so in the main timeline.

Ever notice that after Freeza's betrayal Goku stops giving evil people a chance. He wanted Cell dead and reincarnated Buu as a good person so he could fight him again. One of the few wishes he made on the Dragon Balls was to eat his cake and have it to.

This is what you call Character Development, something DBS threw into the trash.

It is not "his Kakarot persona".

Why are you bringing up "Kakarot" like you're making a point? When did I mention Kakarot at all?

This is just hindsight. Yeah, in hindsight he should have just killed Moro right away, but he didn't know Moro's severed arm with the stored Angel power was still lying on the battlefield.

From his perspective and the knowledge he had available at the time, why kill Moro when you can give him the opportunity to reform in jail? Goku isn't a bloodlusted killer.

And yet Cell Games Goku said:

Spoiler:

DBS Goku is just a regressed idiot. Why else is Cell saga Goku smarter than him?

[VegettoEX]

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Being antagonistic with your fellow community members is not cool. It's a sure-fire way to make sure you get permanently excluded from future conversations. We're here to engage with new friends and occasionally have challenging conversations, sure... but that's no reason or an excuse to just be jerks over trivial details in a fictional story.

Keep that in mind as you make further posts. Represent yourself and the rest of the community in a positive way.

[Hugo Boss]

I think I can agree with the idea that DBS Goku evolved as a person, strictly talking about how empathetic he has become. Though it’s also true that he regressed in fighting sense, which feels disconnected with the level of strength he acquired in Super. Goku does and says inexplicable stuff that makes him look like a totally different character. It’s all about what you like the most. I think I prefer his Battle of Gods’ film characterization, which kinda captures the best of his traits.