White magic vs Black magic

[Yuji]

Daima establishes that wishes can be separated into black magic and white magic, presumably meaning negative and positive wishes. Killing is black magic, so either it is outright forbidden or it cannot go beyond the creator's power as we've been led to believe. De-aging apparently counts as white magic, maybe because it's technically a positive effect?

In this case, wouldn't turning 17 and 18 human be considered white magic and be allowed?

[Luso Saiyan]

Who said the issue is wether it's allowed or not?

[JulieYBM]

Wouldn't removing the artificial components of #17 and #18's bodies be considered altering them on a fundamental level, though, and therefore require their consent?

Actually, since we know that Gokuu and friends can still use ki and transform into a Super Saiyan—and going by the promotional videos, Piccolo and Vegeta don't seem to be all that reduced in power, if at all—did the wish to Shen Long actually, truly, reduce Son Gokuu's power any? Will Shen Long be revealing in Episode #2 that he was unable to make all that big a change to Gokuu and friends? Will we be seeing Shen Long shrug as Gomah comically complains about how Shen Long's inability to completely render Gokuu and friends powerless is 'cheap'?

[ankokudaishogun]

Shenlong did totally played on King Gohma's wish in a reversal of how he did throw an extra for Piccolo's wish in SUPER HERO, didn't he?

[super michael]

Wouldn't removing the artificial components of #17 and #18's bodies be considered altering them on a fundamental level, though, and therefore require their consent?

Actually, since we know that Gokuu and friends can still use ki and transform into a Super Saiyan—and going by the promotional videos, Piccolo and Vegeta don't seem to be all that reduced in power, if at all—did the wish to Shen Long actually, truly, reduce Son Gokuu's power any? Will Shen Long be revealing in Episode #2 that he was unable to make all that big a change to Gokuu and friends? Will we be seeing Shen Long shrug as Gomah comically complains about how Shen Long's inability to completely render Gokuu and friends powerless is 'cheap'?

They can object to the wish, just like Goku didn't want to be teleported from space to earth, after beating Freeza on Namek. Shenron couldn't force Goku to teleport to earth.

However I really doubt the cyborgs wants to have a bomb inside them.

[MisteryOne]

So has Bulma been using white magic wishes as well? That's kind of hilarious.

[LightBing]

#17 and #18 seem to have embraced being Androids, as they didn't care to be called by their original names.
Reversing their bodies might in this case be negative? It would go against their will and desire to be themselves.

It's hard to guess without more information. We need to see the result of the current wish and the following ones.

[Rafa Fast]

I find it hilarious how DB is introducing such a childish/friendly concept this late in the series, I at least liked it XD

But let's remember that Degesu said that the powers of the Earth's DBs specifically are based on white magic, so maybe Earth's DBs can't grant any wishes that are evil/based on black magic? I'll try to review the wishes I can remember now:

• Oolong wishes for Bulma's panties, a innocent wish (in a very specific sense at least :v)

• Goku wished for Bora to be revived, by this we can say that reviving people are good wishes, I think?

• Piccolo Daimao wished for youth, now it was confirmed that de-aging is white magic, even if the de-aged person is evil

• Bulma wished for Muten Roshi, Chaozu and Kuririn to be revived, white magic

• Muten Roshi wished for Goku to be revived, white magic

• Kaio sama and Popo wished for everyone killed by Freeza to be revived, white magic

• Gohan and others wished for everyone killed Cell, 19 and 20 to be revived, white magic

• Kuririn wished for 17 and 18 to become humans, this one is confusing as Shenlong's reason tk not grant it has nothing to do with the concept, but power scaling?

• Kuririn wished to remove the bombs from 17 and 18, something that was negative for them, maybe white magic?

• The Wish to revive everyone killed in the Boo Saga, "Evil People" weren't revived, maybe reinforcing the concept of white magic???

• erasing everyone's memories of Boo, maybe white magic?

• Pilaf Gang wished for youth, white magic

• Learning about the Super Saiyajin god ritual, white magic

• Sorbet wished for Freeza to be revived, this is a controversial one because Freeza is a evil person, though, as we saw before, Earth Shenlong revived a Vegeta who was still evil during Freeza Saga, and he still considered him evil in Boo saga, so by this, we can say that the white magic concept doesn't apply to the person being evil or not, at least when reviving this person, unless the one who's making the wish specify it. Shu and Mai's wishes are silly

• Cheelai wished for Broly to be sent to Planet Vampa, without his consent, it was to save him, so...white magic?

• Piccolo asked for power upgrade and Bulma for silly hot stuff, white magic?

I believe there is a good consistency, specially when it comes to specifying if the revived beings are evil or good, Shenlong has a similar sense of judge to that of Enma Daio, though I don't think there is a rule regarding "consent", Broly was sent to Vampa without his consent, and Androids not turning into humans was due to power scaling.
If I recall correctly, Goku on Namekusei warned about not wanting to be sent back to Earth before everyone could make the wish to Shenlong, is it correct? I need to review the other wishes that need "consent", but are they even related to White/Black magic concept?

[JulieYBM]

White and Black magic are basic role playing game mechanics, it's no surprise that Toriyama would introduce such concepts considering his previous involvement with RPGs.

[super michael]

Here is something I don't understand, how come no one could refuse Shenron wish to turn them into kids.
Goku was able to refuse Shenron wish, to teleport him to earth, when he managed to escape Namek on Ginyu ship.

[Saiya6Cit]

Well, that is interesting.

From a philosophical perspective human vs artificial being, turning her into a human would be considered turning her into a lower being, a mortal one that gets old, gets tired, has limited energy and eventually dies. But getting that done on her allowed her to become a mother, something very fulfilling in many ways and something impossible to obtain if it were not for Sheng Long's magic.

Making a downgrade to someone, making them weaker and mortal could be considered back magic, a curse even. But since it was what allowed the creation of life, I say it was white magic. Because evil only knows how to destroy and correct and kill and onlhy goodness know how to create.

[Yasai9001]

Here is something I don't understand, how come no one could refuse Shenron wish to turn them into kids.
Goku was able to refuse Shenron wish, to teleport him to earth, when he managed to escape Namek on Ginyu ship.

This is a valid question to be honest. I'm at a loss for this one, too.

[AliTheZombie13]

It's just one of those arbitrary rules that are made on the spot and never touched upon again.

"Oh, you can't resurrect someone if they've been dead for over a year - Except Freeza, Yamcha, etc."
"Oh, you can't teleport someone without their consent - Except everyone else not named Goku."

Because of course, if this didn't exist, there would be no story.
I don't think the White Magic vs. Black Magic thing is ever going to come up again.