How Good were the old Ocean Cast?

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

From an acting standpoint across the Saban dub, Pioneer dub, and for those who've actually seen significant amounts the post Freeza Ocean dub, how good were the actor's performances?
I wasn't alive during the 90's so they weren't my first exposure to the franchise, so I have no nostalgic connection to them. Years later after I got over the childish reaction of being mad because they're "not the Funimation cast" (even though they were technically the first Funimation cast) I watched all three Pioneer movie dubs to try and be semi objective on their performances. I think there's some charm there, but overall the Pioneer dubs to me are still held back by miscast voices that were carried over from the TV dub. (As well as the use of Hanna Barbara replacement sound effects in places.) The Z Kai Blu-ray review on this website mentioned a similar sentiment about the Texas cast. That even with good direction and better acting ability a miscast is still a miscast. It also didn't help the Ocean cast that I'd seen the Japanese version by this point.
As for the Suban dub I haven't watched a full episode, but I've seen clips of it and it's very much a product of its time, and not in a good way. It feels very inline with the silly cartoon casting of the toy commerical shows of the 80's like He-man or transformers. Considering that by 1996 both Batman and Gargoyles had released the quality expected of voice acting for cartoons had been raised significantly. I'm aware that the limitations of ADR (especially in the VHS editing days) held back the dub, but they could've done better.
How do you feel about the Ocean cast's ability and general casting.

[Brodes]

The Saban dub is the Ocean dub is the (original) Funimation dub. They're all the same product, just referred to in different ways to keep it more clear with what's happened over the years with the dub.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

The Saban dub is the Ocean dub is the (original) Funimation dub. They're all the same product, just referred to in different ways to keep it more clear with what's happened over the years with the dub.

I'm aware of that, I just categorized Pioneer and Saban differently because they had completely different approaches to adapting the material.

[TheGreatness25]

I think their work still holds up. The scripts were obviously what they were, but I think they did a great job. To this day, Ian Corlett is my favorite English-speaking Goku, Scott McNeil is my favorite English-speaking Piccolo, and Brian Drummond is my favorite English-speaking Vegeta. Not to mention that many had stepped up to the plate since Saffron Henderson and I think her work is still undefeated. Of course, some of the lines were give and take, but by the "Namek Saga," I can't really pick apart their performances. I think they had very natural-sounding (even though obviously put on) voices with great delivery.

I guess it's very easy to compare to the in-house Funimation dub, where I felt their voices sounded very unnatural through the original run (meaning, they sounded forced and cartoony). And then, the voices started to sound natural for Ultimate Uncut and certainly Kai, but then they sounded like they were lackluster and speed reading through their lines. I never felt either of these things with the Ocean dub cast.

[AlexSketchy04]

It's a solid dub, despite some miscast, repetition, and the scriptwork

[TechExpert2021]

The Ocean dub voice cast (even after 2000 when the cast returned for the Westwood dub of DBZ episodes 108-276 (123-291 uncut)) was better than the 1999-era FUNimation in-house voice cast. Despite some miscasts like Pauline Newstone's Freeza, their character voice performances sound professional and not amateurish like the latter.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

That is naturally a subjective question because acting is an art, not a science, but what helped the Ocean cast was the fact they were not nobodies off the street.

Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil went to theatre school, Doc Harris and Terry Klassen worked in radio, Saffron Henderson was the daughter of a musician and dabbled in singing, etc, so they already had their fair share of practice in voice work.

The Funimation cast had no formal training, but they improved by redubbing the material, dubbing countless video games and were arguably pretty good actors by the time Kai came around. If they had the aforementioned training the Ocean cast had before working on Dragon Ball Z their performances likewise would have been better.

The Saban and Westwood dubs were products of their time, as you say, but the direction and overall feel of those dubs was of course not the actor's faults. They gave the best performances they could in dubs that weren't all that faithful and in Westwood's case was rushed out the door to be sold to international territories.

The Pioneer dubs remain their best released work (although Kai might be better, that remains to be seen until that dub actually releases) because it was not a reversioning of the original material. The SFX are a common feature of dubs of kids properties Ocean worked on, but they are barely noticeable (aside from the scene Gohan faints in Dead Zone) and not distracting for me.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

That is naturally a subjective question because acting is an art, not a science, but what helped the Ocean cast was the fact they were not nobodies off the street.

Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil went to theatre school, Doc Harris and Terry Klassen worked in radio, Saffron Henderson was the daughter of a musician and dabbled in singing, etc, so they already had their fair share of practice in voice work.

The Funimation cast had no formal training, but they improved by redubbing the material, dubbing countless video games and were arguably pretty good actors by the time Kai came around. If they had the aforementioned training the Ocean cast had before working on Dragon Ball Z their performances likewise would have been better.

The Saban and Westwood dubs were products of their time, as you say, but the direction and overall feel of those dubs was of course not the actor's faults. They gave the best performances they could in dubs that weren't all that faithful and in Westwood's case was rushed out the door to be sold to international territories.

The Pioneer dubs remain their best released work (although Kai might be better, that remains to be seen until that dub actually releases) because it was not a reversioning of the original material. The SFX are a common feature of dubs of kids properties Ocean worked on, but they are barely noticeable (aside from the scene Gohan faints in Dead Zone) and not distracting for me.

Brian Drummond always felt off to me as Vegeta. He always sounded more like a swashbuckling pirate than an arrogant prince to me. Had he put on a different voice and cadence I think he would've been better. He's a good actor if his performance as Benny in Black Lagoon is any indication, but his Vegeta wasn't it for me.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Brian Drummond's Vegeta, at least in the Saban dub was based on poor guidance on who the character was. Drummond said in various interviews he wasn't shown a picture of Vegeta, he was just told "he's diminutive, he's an alien but he's very princely", so he came up with the voice based on those rough ideas.

For the Westwood dub Drummond humanizes the voice a bit more, probably out of having a greater understanding of the character and to reflect him mellowing out. I've grown to appreciate that more grounded take on Vegeta, apparently his Kai voice is more along those lines but the screams are as crazy as they were in the Saban days.

From what we've heard I like the voice Drummond did for Copy Vegeta in Super. It was also the perfect easter egg for long time fans.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

Brian Drummond's Vegeta, at least in the Saban dub was based on poor guidance on who the character was. Drummond said in various interviews he wasn't shown a picture of Vegeta, he was just told "he's diminutive, he's an alien but he's very princely", so he came up with the voice based on those rough ideas.

For the Westwood dub Drummond humanizes the voice a bit more, probably out of having a greater understanding of the character and to reflect him mellowing out. I've grown to appreciate that more grounded take on Vegeta, apparently his Kai voice is more along those lines but the screams are as crazy as they were in the Saban days.

From what we've heard I like the voice Drummond did for Copy Vegeta in Super. It was also the perfect easter egg for long time fans.

Well now I wanna hear what his Kai voice performance sounds like. I will say that Scott McNeil always killed it as Piccolo. It's very different to Toshio Furukawa but I think it really brings the intimidating nature of early Piccolo. I'm sure he mellowed out the voice with the Westwood dub as well. I'd really liked to have seen what he could've brought in the Ocean Kai dub, but I guess we'll never know.
As for Goku I don't think any of the Ocean voices got the full scope of the character and it'd probably be best to recast that voice with something more appropriate with our understanding of him now. (Which is supposedly what Ocean Kai did if rumors are to be believed.)

[Rory]

I dunno how problematic or ignorant this comes across but in my mind you tend to get two kinds of voice actors for anime:

• Anime dub voice actors

• Voice actors who are cast in an anime

Saban's dub felt much more the latter to me - aka, the good option. Not amazing, didn't match the original and there were some miscasts, but you could tell they paid for real talent. It's why you see their names pop up all the time in other children's cartoons/animated films. They were seasoned pros.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

That is naturally a subjective question because acting is an art, not a science, but what helped the Ocean cast was the fact they were not nobodies off the street.

Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil went to theatre school, Doc Harris and Terry Klassen worked in radio, Saffron Henderson was the daughter of a musician and dabbled in singing, etc, so they already had their fair share of practice in voice work.

The Funimation cast had no formal training, but they improved by redubbing the material, dubbing countless video games and were arguably pretty good actors by the time Kai came around. If they had the aforementioned training the Ocean cast had before working on Dragon Ball Z their performances likewise would have been better.

The Saban and Westwood dubs were products of their time, as you say, but the direction and overall feel of those dubs was of course not the actor's faults. They gave the best performances they could in dubs that weren't all that faithful and in Westwood's case was rushed out the door to be sold to international territories.

The Pioneer dubs remain their best released work (although Kai might be better, that remains to be seen until that dub actually releases) because it was not a reversioning of the original material. The SFX are a common feature of dubs of kids properties Ocean worked on, but they are barely noticeable (aside from the scene Gohan faints in Dead Zone) and not distracting for me.

Brian Drummond always felt off to me as Vegeta. He always sounded more like a swashbuckling pirate than an arrogant prince to me. Had he put on a different voice and cadence I think he would've been better. He's a good actor if his performance as Benny in Black Lagoon is any indication, but his Vegeta wasn't it for me.

Brian Drummond's Vegeta is a favourite among fans of the Ocean dub, myself included, but I can understand that the voice isn't for everyone (especially if you're not used to Vegeta sounding like that). Conversely, that's the first voice for Vegeta I ever heard, so he will always sound that way when I think of him. Ryō Horikawa's performance as Vegeta in the original Japanese version (which I discovered later) is amazing, but completely different.

What Drummond's Vegeta is known (and loved by many) for is his absolutely psychotic screams, especially in what was originally referred to as season 2, the early Namek episodes. Check out some scenes of him screaming if you haven't yet. Some standouts include his "you'll never escape my wrath" scene where he realizes that Gohan had stolen one of the Namekian dragonballs from him, as well as his intense power-up scene right before he fights Recoome of the Ginyu Force.

I dunno how problematic or ignorant this comes across but in my mind you tend to get two kinds of voice actors for anime:

• Anime dub voice actors

• Voice actors who are cast in an anime

Saban's dub felt much more the latter to me - aka, the good option. Not amazing, didn't match the original and there were some miscasts, but you could tell they paid for real talent. It's why you see their names pop up all the time in other children's cartoons/animated films. They were seasoned pros.

Bingo. They were/are professional actors. Up here in Canada we were very familiar with many of the voice actors in the show, hearing them in lots of shows at the time. Even to this day, I'll still occasionally see or hear one of them in something.

[90sDBZ]

I'd say they were pretty great during the Saban/Pioneer era. Most of the performances where top notch, with Ian Corlett, Brian Drummond, and Scott McNeil all sounding particularly awesome. There was some serious weight to these performances that elevated the show.

I wasn't a fan of Peter Kelamis as Goku back in the day, but he grew on me a lot after seeing the Pioneer movie trilogy and revisiting the Saban dub.

For me personally, the Westwood dub was a major step down from their earlier work, due to being rushed. A lot of the performances in the Android/Cell saga felt flat, and some of the newer casting felt off, like the voice of Trunks. Brian Drummond and Scott McNeil still sounded mostly decent as Vegeta and Piccolo, but others like Terry Klassen as Krillin sounded noticeably worse than before.

It did begin to gradually improve over time though. I actually thought Kirby Morrow was decent as Goku, and Brad Swaile was a solid choice for Buu saga Gohan.

For whatever reason, things improved drastically around the Fusion saga. This is partially because new music tracks were finally introduced (the recycled Mega-man score was insanely repetitive up to this point), and they were suddenly allowed to reference death. Hearing the Ocean actors finally being able to reference death was actually pretty awesome, i.e. Brian Drummond screaming "Put your hands up right now or you're all going to die!!!!!", or his line to Goku "Thanks, but I'm already dead".

I'm more partial to the Texas cast overall, but I still have a massive appreciation for what the Vancouver cast were able to do at their best, and it's a shame Ocean Kai still hasn't surfaced. At the very least it's time the Saban dub got another re-release on Blu-ray.

[MasenkoHA]

They were all veteran peformers which helped a lot. I'm not sure if any performance was outright "bad" just a lot of miscast or goofy cartoon voices that didn't necessarily fit the character or didn't go well with the material. I think with a few recast and some actors being directed differently it could have been a solid dub had it been uncut and with Pioneer quality scripts applied to the tv deries.

The Westwood era meh it's not good but I don't think it was worse than the Funimation dub at the time (as far as acting, the scripts were 99 percent identical and both used the wrong music)

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

And Brad Swaile was a solid choice for Buu saga Gohan.

At the very least it's time the Saban dub got another re-release on Blu-ray.

Brad Swaile was really great as Rock in Black Lagoon. I've heard his Gohan voice and he was good. I'm curious what he could've done in an Ocean dub of Boo Kai.
I know that the Saban dub got released by Funimation as part of the "Rock the Dragon" DVD set. However I don't know how much value there'd be in releasing it on Blu-ray. It seems that the subset of the fandom who're nostalgic for that dub might not be viewed as a big enough market for Crunchyroll to justify a Blu-ray.

[90sDBZ]

I know that the Saban dub got released by Funimation as part of the "Rock the Dragon" DVD set. However I don't know how much value there'd be in releasing it on Blu-ray. It seems that the subset of the fandom who're nostalgic for that dub might not be viewed as a big enough market for Crunchyroll to justify a Blu-ray.

They could always just make it a limited quantity again. That dub will be 30 years old in 2026, so maybe they could do something with it.

Its already been 11 years since the RtD set came out. I was lucky enough to get it at the time, but I'm sure there's people who either missed out, or want it in better picture quality.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As for Goku I don't think any of the Ocean voices got the full scope of the character and it'd probably be best to recast that voice with something more appropriate with our understanding of him now. (Which is supposedly what Ocean Kai did if rumors are to be believed.)

We know Ocean went out of their way to find the right actor for Goku. The actor they cast was Richard Ian Cox, whom Scott McNeil described as the perfect man for the job. Cox sadly vehemently denies playing Goku, and only once he responded to Peter Kelamis saying "You're too kind! I only did my best to follow in the footsteps of greatness laid out before me"

I'm sure a Saban dub Blu-Ray or even SD Blu-Ray would sell. The Rock the Dragon collection is highly sought after. I missed it, and sadly Manga UK never released it, despite Jerome Mazandarani responding positively to tweets and saying he was waiting to meet TOEI about it at one point. I have the Pioneer singles but I'd be all over it if another opportunity presented itself to support that dub.

Unfortunately I don't have any faith in Crunchyroll to do it. It was a miracle as-is Funimation released Rock the Dragon, and from what I've heard it took a lot of pressure from the inside for that to even be put out.

[MasenkoHA]

We can't even get original Dragon Ball on blu-ray :/

Spoiler:

Or GT, but I don't care about that one

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

As for Goku I don't think any of the Ocean voices got the full scope of the character and it'd probably be best to recast that voice with something more appropriate with our understanding of him now. (Which is supposedly what Ocean Kai did if rumors are to be believed.)

We know Ocean went out of their way to find the right actor for Goku. The actor they cast was Richard Ian Cox, whom Scott McNeil described as the perfect man for the job. Cox sadly vehemently denies playing Goku, and only once he responded to Peter Kelamis saying "You're too kind! I only did my best to follow in the footsteps of greatness laid out before me"

That makes me wonder what it'd be like in a parallel universe where Chris Sabat was kicked out of the director and producer chairs for Kai with new people who had no connection to the previous dub, and would require each actor to re-audition for their characters, and completely change Funimation's approach to dubbing. Would any of the legacy actors still be casted? If Ocean was willing to do a semi similar approach how much of Funimation's Texas cast would survive?

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

They were all veteran peformers which helped a lot. I'm not sure if any performance was outright "bad" just a lot of miscast or goofy cartoon voices that didn't necessarily fit the character or didn't go well with the material. I think with a few recast and some actors being directed differently it could have been a solid dub had it been uncut and with Pioneer quality scripts applied to the tv deries.

I think that's a good way of summing it up.

A perfect example would be the late Pauline Newstone as Freeza. Was it the wrong voice for that character? Absolutely, but the performance in and of itself wasn't bad. Some of her line deliveries were incredibly amusing. I can enjoy the performance for what it is even though it's a miscast if you want a faithful depiction of the Freeza character.

The problem is that in season 3 you now had inexperienced people doing pale imitations of voices that were miscasts for certain characters to begin with.