Continuity Conundrums: Daima and Super (Running Tracker)

[No9tro]

On Point 4, I think it's probably the latest Macro-Expansion in Dragon World.

We already had several in the revival era - the Core planet where Shin-jin are from, God of Destruction Planets, 12 Universes, "Neutral Space" between Universes, Zeno-Sama's Palace, the World of Void, and a more general "Angel Realm" in which a lot of the new Godly stuff seems to sit. A "Dragon World"-wide Demon Realm seems to be a fairly straightforward counterpart to a "Dragon World"-wide Angel Realm, sitting either side of the Mortal Realm where most of the action happens.

It's possible the bits of each Universe previously set aside as the "Demon Realm" may be either toeholds the Demon Realm has in the Mortal Realm, or else (and perhaps more likely) conduits through which Warp-Fish-facilitated traffic between the two realms can proceed.

For fun, I tried my hand at sketching out a speculative map of Dragon World that tries to incorporate all the new places in a model that looks like the original one Toriyama made for the main Dragon Ball Universe. This is a guess in places and will probably age horribly overall, but it was fun to try out (click on thumbnail for full image):

Nice! That's really well done even if I admittedly have a hard time reading the writing (Not a critique just a me problem). Of course if the multiverse is incased in a big ball as well one has to wonder what would be outside that ball. More multiverses? Maybe just empty nothingness.

[nineko]

There is a little something which bothers me (it's related to the original DB, though, not Super, so I apologise if I'm off topic here, but it looked like a nice place to say this).

The wish was meant to turn all adults into first graders, e.g. 6 years old, though let's not forget that this is how Piccolo looked like at 3:


Unless he was grouped with the ones who already were children, and turned into the Namekian equivalent of a toddler...

[Yuji]

New information:

• Shenlong's "one wish for new timers" rule conflicts with RF. Either Sorbet was the wish maker, in which case he should have only one wish, or Pilaf was the "regular" Shenlong noticed, in which case, he should have all 3. Two wishes were granted in the movie, three in the anime and one in the Toyotaro one-shot. The anime works if Pilaf was recognized as the wish maker, the manga works if Sorbet was the wish maker, and the movie doesn't work at all unless "reviving Freeza" is such a consuming wish it takes up 2 wishes due to how long ago he died.
• At the same time, the new rule retroactively explains why only one wish was granted in Broly.
• Shin implies he's from the Demon Realm? Maybe some clarification is needed on this, but he states he came to U7 on a spaceship. If he came from the Demon World, this may contradict the Shinjin lore. If no elaboration is provided, then we can assume he came from the Core planet by spaceship.
• Piccolo remembers the Demon World, but Dende doesn't. Moori knew of the Demon World but didn't specify it to the children in the Granolah arc. Maybe the adults like Moori (and, presumably, Nail, since God had no idea of his heritage) know about the Namekian origins, but the children don't learn of it until a certain age?
• Kibito claims permission is needed to leave the Demon Realm. No elaboration is provided, but we can assume he's implying the upper Gods, such as the Grand Priest and Zeno. Perhaps he means the Kaioshin, but Shin seems to be dettached from Demon Realm matters so far.
• The Nyoibo is not present in Karin's temple. Was there any scene showcasing it in Super?
• Piccolo retains his manga and Superhero coloring (yellow muscles rather than red).

[ankokudaishogun]

Shenlong obviously is not neutral at all in how he manages wishes.
This tracks with him giving Piccolo a bonus in SUPER HERO and, arguably, resurrecting Freeza in pieces

[ZombieVito]

They actually managed to clear up a mistake from the Broly movie.

Color me impressed.

[Mr Baggins]

People have been bickering and squabbling about wish inconsistencies for years as if it mattered and Toriyama basically said "take it easy bro, Shenlong just does whatever the fuck Shenlong wants"

I love it

[Yuji]

On Point 4, I think it's probably the latest Macro-Expansion in Dragon World.

We already had several in the revival era - the Core planet where Shin-jin are from, God of Destruction Planets, 12 Universes, "Neutral Space" between Universes, Zeno-Sama's Palace, the World of Void, and a more general "Angel Realm" in which a lot of the new Godly stuff seems to sit. A "Dragon World"-wide Demon Realm seems to be a fairly straightforward counterpart to a "Dragon World"-wide Angel Realm, sitting either side of the Mortal Realm where most of the action happens.

It's possible the bits of each Universe previously set aside as the "Demon Realm" may be either toeholds the Demon Realm has in the Mortal Realm, or else (and perhaps more likely) conduits through which Warp-Fish-facilitated traffic between the two realms can proceed.

For fun, I tried my hand at sketching out a speculative map of Dragon World that tries to incorporate all the new places in a model that looks like the original one Toriyama made for the main Dragon Ball Universe. This is a guess in places and will probably age horribly overall, but it was fun to try out (click on thumbnail for full image):

I think the GoD planets are probably their own sphere alongside the Kaioshin realm of every universe. Besides that, love the sketch.

[Cipher]

There is a little something which bothers me (it's related to the original DB, though, not Super, so I apologise if I'm off topic here, but it looked like a nice place to say this).

The wish was meant to turn all adults into first graders, e.g. 6 years old, though let's not forget that this is how Piccolo looked like at 3:


Otherwise, in Episode 2, lots of new lore and some wink-wink excuses on wish numbers, but nothing touching on Daima's relationship with Super at all.

Unless he was grouped with the ones who already were children, and turned into the Namekian equivalent of a toddler...

Headcanon: Since he's reintegrated with God, he goes back to the way the original Nameless Namekian looked at that age.

[nineko]

Why did you add a paragraph inside my quote?

[Magnificent Ponta]

Nice! That's really well done even if I admittedly have a hard time reading the writing (Not a critique just a me problem). Of course if the multiverse is incased in a big ball as well one has to wonder what would be outside that ball. More multiverses? Maybe just empty nothingness.

Thanks! That's kind of you to say. And by all means, feel free to critique - I know my handwriting is terrible

I did consider putting the "World of Void" outside the 'ball' of Dragon World in the sketch, but decided against it when considering that after Zeno-Sama destroys Future Trunks' reality in 超#26, he's left floating in a Big Plain White Nothing. So, I figure that's what there is outside of Dragon World as I conceive it.

I think the GoD planets are probably their own sphere alongside the Kaioshin realm of every universe. Besides that, love the sketch.

Thanks for the kind words! That's certainly possible. I guess it depends on where you consider the "Heavenly Realm" (Tenkai, 天界) to be - Whis says he's taking Merus back there in 超#55 (taking him away from the "Mortal Realm", Gekai, 下界), and when we see them next in 超#59, they are on Beerus's Planet, so Beerus's Planet is in that Realm. I thought it unlikely that every Universe has another such Realm orbiting them separately like the Kaioshin Realm does, as in 超#16 we see Universe 10 from the outside, and only the Kaioshin Realm is shown orbiting. So that would mean that either the Heavenly Realm is referring to something within each Universe (it is a possible designation for the "afterlife" portion of each Universe, in which case Beerus's planet would probably be situated more like the planets of the Kaio than those of the Kaioshin), or it's in a shared Heavenly Realm distinct from all Universes.

I chose the latter for this sketch, but if the God of Destruction Planets are within each Universe in its upper portion, that would line up with a few data (e.g., Arak's planet seems to be in Deep Space in 超#28, presumably within Universe 5, and Belmod's planet is simply said to be in Universe 11 in 超#30; moreover it seems to take much longer for Whis to get to "Neutral Space" between Universes 6 and 7 than to get to Beerus's planet, in 超#7 - see also 超#17, where he would take longer to get to the Heavenly Palace also); and it wouldn't change very much about the sketch - I guess the "Angel Realm" would just be designated the "Heavenly Palace Realm" or something, and would otherwise have the same functions in containing the birthplaces of the Angels and the Shin-jin, just not the God of Destruction Worlds.

Something for me to reflect on, as the current series unfolds and I find I need to resketch the whole thing from scratch anyway Thanks again!

[WittyUsername]

I’m sure it wasn’t Toriyama’s intention, but I’d be fine with imagining that Daima isn’t connected to Super at all. Super has enough continuity headaches as it is.

[Cipher]

Why did you add a paragraph inside my quote?

Because I was on mobile, fat-fingered it, then thought the edit just didn't go through until seeing what had happened well after the edit window expired.

A continuity conundrum for sure.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I'll drop a minor continuity resolution prediction here:

When the characters get aged up again, by whatever means that might be (at the moment one assumes the Dragon Balls of somewhere or other), Bulma at least will end up younger than she "should" be (either by request or simply by happenstance) so that her birthday in Battle of Gods really does end up being her 38th (again).