Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 4 - Official Discussion Thread

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

- "Medi Bugs... They're like Senzu Beans... And these ones, they're like the Potara!" - Then... why not just use the Senzu Beans and the Potara?

Glorio approached Goku rather suddenly in episode 2 and basically said that they had to leave that instant. So he and Kaio-Shin didn't have time to bring anything besides the clothes on their backs, and whatever was in their pockets.

[nineko]

Nice little episode, but yeah, this is heading towards being GT 2.0, stolen mean of transportation, helping oppressed townspeople, sure there are new elements, but even the bugs are senzus and potaras in a wig, as someone already said. It makes sense, though, it looks like Toriyama tried to give some of his trademark comedic touch in every little detail he could (such as the warp goldfish) without straying too much from the regular Dragon Ball staples, creating a product which is new and not new at the same time (take that, Schrödinger). It's not bad, but it looks like they're playing safe, like they're trying to score a 5 out of 10 in a dozen of categories at the same time instead of trying to achieve a 10 in some of them, it's an all-around "not bad" which fails at being great at anything. I think you English people have an idiom for that, jack of all trades and master of none.

Then again, it's only the fourth episode, I'm still keeping an open mind. The new character might add some spice, and I still hope that the rest of the cast can arrive soon, we know from day 1 that they'll be there eventually thanks to the OP and the ED, so each episode with only the trio sounds like "lol no try again".

[Cipher]

First two episodes: Very lore heavy, but fun atmosphere.
Third episode: Okay, we're doing some JRPG tropes and basically the Toriyama manga thing. I'm vibin', I'm vibin'.
Fourth episode: This is going to be twenty episodes long, huh?

I'm not having a bad time when I watch, but that is a veeeery long runtime for RPG tropes and the Toriyama single-volume manga formula--but with what essentially promise to be flat main characters (since it's the DB cast along for the ride). We also have my least favorite action-manga plot structure: telegraphed sub-bosses. I really need this to offer some surprises to elevate itself beyond "vaguely pleasant" or be something I'm likely to ever want to revisit...

[Jord]

Like others said, thus far it's feeling more and more like a GT rethread, only with more exposition. It feels like Toriyama played Dragon Quest all day, then watched some GT eps and then started writing this. I was really expecting to see the GT Wanted posters but perhaps we'll see them next episode.

I'm also wondering when we'll get to see characters like Piccolo and Vegeta again since this current crew is pretty boring. The blue guy is the standard shonen stoic guy archetype and Kaioshin...well..in Z he was an interesting mysterious figure until we got to know him. Now he's just "wise and cautious". I still have to get used to his pink head as well, lol.

The animation is still great but I keep noticing how strained Nozawa sounds as Goku.
She could have bookended this show as adult Goku with a new voice voicing the younger Goku.

[Blade]

This is such a meta series.

And I say that distinctly in a franchise that does all sorts of meta, most of it without artistic integrity and making for an abysmally unsatisfactory product (e.g. Dragonball Heroes).

I just wish we had more insight from Toriyama about his thought process. Maybe more nuggets will come to light in future... maybe we will never know.

[Mr Baggins]

The similarities between Daima and GT are so infinitesimal that they're barely worth dissecting. There's some extremely rough structural inspiration here and there, and maybe a couple of stylistic choices like the soundtrack I mentioned last thread, but there's little to seriously discuss beyond that.

GT is rudimentarily and fundamentally a different show. Its writing is different, its setting is different, its approach to the characters is different, its flavor of humor is wildly different, its tone is different, its way of engaging its audience is different. Its one major shared element, kid Goku, is a completely different character between the two series. Only the vaguest possible plot similarities hold any water, and one can reasonably doubt some of them were even intended.

Above all, Daima thus far feels like something Toriyama had serious involvement in. It feels of a piece with his world, and his work.

GT does not and is impossible to sit through for 5 minutes without mentally trailing off.

[Smilodon]

It's starting to get weird. Only 20 episodes... So, we had 20% of the show and... Nothing relevant had happened.
Vegeta+Piccolo+Bulma hasn't joined yet. We will have 3 Tamagamis to fight. Dra Arinsu will show 2 different Majins ( Kuu and Duu). The fight with Gomah and Degesu. Rescue Dende. Neba and the wish.
And the others Z team on earth... Nothing?

I really don't get how can 16 episodes left will do everything.

[Yuji]

Its one major shared element, kid Goku, is a completely different character between the two series.

I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate. The only difference I can spot is that GT Goku is a bit less enthusiastic about the adventure. At least in the first arc, when things get serious in GT, Goku gets a bit more serious and less childish, but for the first arc and compared to Daima, they've been essentially the same.

[Majin Buu]

I concur on the "this is a JRPG" sentiment. This is Dragon Ball with Dragon Quest vibes- And I love it. I'm also a Dragon Quest fan and parts of early Dragon Ball have a similar vibe to that so I think that fits for a show that's trying to emulate early Dragon Ball.

More lore stuff, but like the last episode, it didn't feel too egregious now that we're getting more action- and intrigue too. Glorio still feels like he's playing his own game with the way he's low-key dictating how the group's gonna do things, and Kaioshin seems to pick up on something with him too with the way he stared at Glorio for a moment before (reluctantly?) agreeing to the plan.

I'm liking Panzy so far. She seems to have that Pan-like quality of "means well but gets in over her head" with that failed attempt to take on the police (Also- her name is literally "Pan" with two extra letters). It's charming. I can see her and Goku getting along. Interested to see what she brings to the story.

Still loving the music and how atmospheric it is. A lot of that "JRPG" vibe is coming from it.

I like the Medi Bugs. They're a neat world-building tidbit (They're the Demon Realm counterpart to Senzu Beans and seemingly Fusion) that will likely come into play later in the story.

Lastly- I like Goku getting Glorio's name wrong. It feels in-line with the "uncivilized hick with no social skills" part of him, just like in the last episode when he called Warp a fish. I'm liking how Goku is being written.

[Zinnia]

GT does not and is impossible to sit through for 5 minutes without mentally trailing off.

This is like, your opinion. I have fun watching GT and it's early adventure arc no problem at all. The characters are engaging enough.

Its one major shared element, kid Goku, is a completely different character between the two series.

?
Goku eats a lot in both GT and Daima. He's adventurous in both, explores new worlds and does silly stuff like taking the adventure easy instead of rushing to get the Dragon Balls in both.

You're really overplaying the differences. Toriyama clearly liked GT and took cues from it.

[JulieYBM]

I'm not really seeing how Gokuu is acting like a child, unless we think to be an adult you need to be devoid of enthusiasm for life and the world.

I mean, I often am devoid of enthusiasm for life and the world, but I suffer from more mental illnesses than you can count on you hands and feet.

[Mr Baggins]

I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate. ... Goku gets a bit more serious and less childish

A bit? Brother, there are whole scenes dedicated to putting GT Goku's "wisdom" on full display.

A not uncommon vocal sentiment that tends to rear its head in fandom is that he's the most mature he's ever been portrayed in the franchise, so when there's shit like him flat-out denying his race or (more hilariously) giving moralizing speeches to villains, I ain't disagreeing. I'd only disagree that it's good or accurate characterization, but that's neither here nor there.

Daima Goku is just Goku. Funnily enough, there's already a litany of complaints that he's too much like Super Goku.

This is like, your opinion.

Um, yeah? The nature of forum posts is intrinsically that they're opinions.

Stop me if you've heard this one.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

If Daima is GT retread then where is the Earth destruction stake?

As for the episode, it was a fun and short sidequest. Found really weird that Glorio doesnt know what ki is but can fly.

[Yuji]

A bit? Brother, there are whole scenes dedicated to putting GT Goku's "wisdom" on full display.

Moral grandstanding is Toei nonsense and denying his race is flat-out character regression. I don't think he's the most mature, or a good depiction at all, I just think he's more mature post Baby than he is here.

With that being said, the point of comparison here is his characterization in the Black Star DBs arc, where stakes are low(er) and he's most comparable to the Daima context. I don't think you can find much difference between this and the first 4 episodes of GT in terms of characterization.

[Jord]

If Daima is GT retread then where is the Earth destruction stake?

As for the episode, it was a fun and short sidequest. Found really weird that Glorio doesnt know what ki is but can fly.

You are right. The Earth's imminent destruction was a way more interesting approach than "Oh my, Dende has been kidnapped." Especially since the Earth did get destroyed.

[JulieYBM]

If Daima is GT retread then where is the Earth destruction stake?

They don't have to copy everything 1:1 for Dragon Ball Daima to be based on Dragon Ball GT.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

You are right. The Earth's imminent destruction was a way more interesting approach than "Oh my, Dende has been kidnapped." Especially since the Earth did get destroyed.

After slogging through over 30 episodes of boring stuff, the pay off was not worth it.

[StaticMania]

I'm not really seeing how Gokuu is acting like a child, unless we think to be an adult you need to be devoid of enthusiasm for life and the world.

Maybe it's been too long since Goku has shown any interest and enthusiasm for things besides fighting that people feel like it's out of character.

The characters haven't really been on an "adventure" in a long time, they've just retreaded familiar ground over and over...or been to places of no interest during a conflict. Goku's blasé attitude later in life is probably why he stopped being the focus character, it makes sense that in GT he wasn't really the one at the forefront. Daima's approach is just better though.

[JulieYBM]

I'm not really seeing how Gokuu is acting like a child, unless we think to be an adult you need to be devoid of enthusiasm for life and the world.

Maybe it's been too long since Goku has shown any interest and enthusiasm for things besides fighting that people feel like it's out of character.

The characters haven't really been on an "adventure" in a long time, they've just retreaded familiar ground over and over...or been to places of no interest during a conflict. Goku's blasé attitude later in life is probably why he stopped being the focus character, it makes sense that in GT he wasn't really the one at the forefront. Daima's approach is just better though.

I suppose that could the issue: Gokuu isn't written with enough depth because Toriyama's desire to 'go against the grain' or whatever he thought that he was doing. The thing is, that's just shooting yourself in the foot.

Anyway, I definitely hope Gokuu shows interests and opinions on stuff outside of fighting more often now.

[Mr Baggins]

With that being said, the point of comparison here is his characterization in the Black Star DBs arc, where stakes are low(er) and he's most comparable to the Daima context. I don't think you can find much difference between this and the first 4 episodes of GT in terms of characterization.

It doesn't take many episodes before the stuff I was referring to starts to get overt.

But to your general point, I don't think basing the comparison on a small arbitrary number of episodes is meaningful. What I'm saying is that Toriyama's Daima Goku is, so far, a very different character relative to his GT iteration. The few similarities they might share is nothing compared to how (badly) distracting the differences are.

This is of course all preliminary, given that we're only 4 episodes into Daima.

______________

I also deeply regret that this thread turned into the thousandth "Goku's characterization" debate when my broader, actual point is that just about everything Daima has in common with GT is pretty surface level. It's trivia level analysis at best.