MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/19/25!)

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/19/24!)

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:55 am

I love it when the dragons pretend they weren't born two days ago and are all like "nobody ever did this to me". The twins were also "yeah, you have always been a wussy, brother", but where did you even meet each other? can they interact even without having bodies and from within the DBs?
I guess they might be able to sense who's on the other sphere, how powerful they might be or how toxic they are, but... how did the princess dragon kill people who say their real face? I don't recall a regular DB killing someone. When did the ice dragon witness his brother being nice to someone?

At first, I thought they were ancient beings that have lived many lives, but they were created recently. Then I thought, based on DBAF, they were summoned from some other realm, but they are said to have been inside the DBs all this time. One is younger than fucking Goten.

I wonder if there's a way to tell how many days have passed from start to end. There's no night due to that weird sky but Goku and Pan also don't take a nap or anything, IIRC.

Salt-sensei
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:05 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/19/24!)

Post by Salt-sensei » Fri Aug 23, 2024 9:13 pm

I just thought about it, but Sū/Four-Star being the younger twin of San/Three-Star makes no sense at all if they were born when their respective wishes were made. Sū was born from Piccolo's wish in 753, San was born from the wish to erase people's memories of Boo in 774, it's a 21 years age gap, how are they twins? And how is Sū younger?

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/19/24!)

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Aug 24, 2024 2:57 pm

Salt-sensei wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 9:13 pm I just thought about it, but Sū/Four-Star being the younger twin of San/Three-Star makes no sense at all if they were born when their respective wishes were made. Sū was born from Piccolo's wish in 753, San was born from the wish to erase people's memories of Boo in 774, it's a 21 years age gap, how are they twins? And how is Sū younger?
The “he’s my older brother” thing definitely doesn’t make sense, but the idea of the two dragons being “brothers” could’ve worked if they simply changed the wish that San was born from. Specifically by making him be born from the wish that resurrected the people killed by Piccolo and his henchmen. That would’ve given the two a plausible connective tissue, and would’ve better highlighted the idea that the two are polar opposites of each other. Sadly, GT has a tendency to steer clear of logical creative decisions.

Jord
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/19/24!)

Post by Jord » Sun Sep 01, 2024 5:42 am

Scsigs wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:13 am
Gaffer Tape wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 10:56 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2024 12:28 pm God, I hate the Ryuu Shen Long epiosde so much. I opine about it all the time, but the weird transphobic tropes really make this episode torture to sit through.
It's interesting because I've seen the opinions run the gamut there, including seeing other trans women claim her as representation. Hell, I've likewise gotten flack in my comments from now-blocked transphobes complaining about me or the episode promoting it. Sigh. I hate people who hate people.
Question, wouldn't the dragons technically be genderless? Like, I know they're usually referred to by gendered pronouns & shit, as well as most have masculine appearances, but since they're technically dragons who can switch between them, wouldn't that either make them without gender, or gender fluid?
What's an example of a dragon switching gender in dragon ball?
To me, it seems like they were either male or female due to their designs and voice acting, with only Oceanus being female. (With a damn good design as well)

Dragon Ball at that hasn't exactly been shy of acknowledging gender, both for male and female characters.

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/16/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Sep 16, 2024 9:22 am

The Midpoint Pan Abduction - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Evil Dragon Arc Part 3

Dragon Ball Dissection has reached the midpoint dragon of Dragon Ball GT's Evil Dragon Arc. Qi Xing Long marks the shift from one-off comedic fights to longer, more dire confrontations, as well as the start of a whole bunch of Pan being used as a hostage. Does this stick the landing by adding depth and complexity to these new villains or does it twist its ankle in a ditch? Hope you like it!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

User avatar
FoolsGil
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5031
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/16/24!)

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:30 pm

As one of themes of the series is redemption, I think there could have been a version of the arc where multiple dragons if not all of them were not killed, and allowed their darkness to be purified.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/16/24!)

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:21 pm

(Let me just say from the outset that I’ll just be referring to the dragons by their dub names, since it’s easier for me to remember than their proper sub names.)

It’s interesting to note that the show has suggested on at least three occasions that the Evil Dragons are capable of voluntarily giving up their respective Dragon Ball without dying. Sure, you could easily point out that both Rage (five stars) and Eis (three stars) were only offering their Dragon Balls as a ruse, but Nuova (four stars) seemed to corroborate the idea that a Dragon can in fact give up their ball and live. It’s kinda weird to think they can do that. Aren’t they literally the personification of their respective Dragon Ball? Do they simple lose their powers, but otherwise continue to exist? Furthermore, do their Dragon Balls suddenly “purify” once they willingly give them up?

Anyway, yeah, there is an interesting moral dilemma to be explored here, but I can’t say it’s surprising that Toei chose to take the easy way out by having most of the dragons clearly be evil, while their token “good” dragon conveniently gets killed by the bad guy (twice!) so Goku doesn’t have to do it himself.

User avatar
MisteryOne
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:27 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/16/24!)

Post by MisteryOne » Sun Sep 22, 2024 5:14 pm

I feel kinda bad for bringing up something completely unrelated to GT, but given you are probably never covering the Granolah arc, I wanted to share something I realized after rewatching Dragonball Dissection for the hundreth time (will put it into spoilers for anyone that rightfully doesn't care about the ramblings of a random person who deemed it unworthy of its own thread)
To stay on topic however, I just have to say your videos on the Shadow Dragons arc have already being more interesting than what I find that src itself overall. I expected that to happen with Super 17 because it's a train wreck that gives lots of topics to talk about...but I didn't remember the early dragons got this, uh, potentially interesting? It's always so fun to hear your thoughts and I'm looking forward for more.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/16/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:13 am

Goku's Biggest Lie? - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Evil Dragon Arc Part 4

Dragon Ball GT's Evil Dragon Arc continues with a dragon with heat power! It's a tense game of cat and mouse... until Goku reveals he can just transform himself out of the story doing anything interesting! Then the show slams on the brakes so Vegeta can reminisce. Well, if Dragon Ball GT can pander to Vegeta's popularity, so can I! But seriously, I actually took away more from the clip show than I thought I would!
MisteryOne wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2024 5:14 pm To stay on topic however, I just have to say your videos on the Shadow Dragons arc have already being more interesting than what I find that src itself overall. I expected that to happen with Super 17 because it's a train wreck that gives lots of topics to talk about...but I didn't remember the early dragons got this, uh, potentially interesting? It's always so fun to hear your thoughts and I'm looking forward for more.
Thank you! That's very kind of you to say. Thanks for sharing, and I apologize for taking so long to say anything about it.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

User avatar
AliTheZombie13
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:29 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:53 pm

I don't really think Toriyama meant Goku's line about hard work and dedication being a misleading philosophy, I think he meant every single word, but forgot to reflect that into his own story. You know, I have always felt Dragon Ball had these messages that Toriyama tried to teach to his audience that shot themselves in the foot immediately after they're introduced.

"There ain't no magic water to make you strong, you only get stronger through hard work. Anyway, here's some magic water to make you 10 times stronger!"

"It shows that with hard work and dedication, anyone can get to the top... But still, if you somehow train your entire life to defeat me, that still doesn't matter, because my body has special space biology that lets me come back 30 times stronger than you. And if that fails, my special space biology allows me to become 150 times stronger than you by screaming a lot, and if that fails, it has multiple tiers of strongerification, some of which require no training at all."

"We don't want to fight dirty, that's just not the Saiyan way. We prefer using our own power and skill to defeat the bad guy... Until we resort to tag-teaming, fusing, using healing items, restoring our power and energy with the Dragon Balls, and gathering everybody else's power through the Genki Dama!"

"Let's pass the torch to the new generation- Oh, who the fuck am I kidding? I'm the main character, deal with it!"
Personal Dragon Ball Arc Ranking:

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:51 pm

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 5:53 pm I don't really think Toriyama meant Goku's line about hard work and dedication being a misleading philosophy, I think he meant every single word, but forgot to reflect that into his own story. You know, I have always felt Dragon Ball had these messages that Toriyama tried to teach to his audience that shot themselves in the foot immediately after they're introduced.
I don't think he meant it as a misleading philosophy either. I've always maintained I side with Goku on that one. I believe him. I spend this video analyzing and laying out Vegeta's perspective, not my own.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Oct 16, 2024 9:35 am

One of the funniest Dissection video to date.

Agreed that the S-17 arc would've benefited from the no-touching rule to justify Goku spamming ki blasts all day long.

However, I liked base Goku struggling with the heat and overcoming the obstacle in his strongest form, even if it's just a red herring and won't be an issue once Goku stops playing around. I understand it's a waste of a good thing, even if it's something he has done before*, but I don't really have a problem with that obstacle not really being a definite obstacle.
I remember Omega Shenron pulled the Heat Skin, too, but only for like one scene, odd. That could've been a decent follow up but they chose to make the guy too strong for that to be a thing.


*This brings another question, the Goku that cycles through his forms to have some fun, which is a common trait attributed to Goku by now, is it a Toei trait or a Toriyama trait? because he does this vs Rildo, vs S-17, vs Suu, he does this vs Kid Buu in that filler episode, and in some Z movies. But he doesn't really do this in Z, except vs Majin Vegeta. Is Goku more practical in the manga or not really?

jcogginsa
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:12 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by jcogginsa » Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:10 pm

Imagine a world where Funimation called the Kienzan the "Dicin' Disc"


When it comes to translating move names, the Dub does face an additional hurdle that a Manga Translation or a subtitle doesn't face: Lip Flaps. If they translate something, whatever they translate it to needs to match the number of lip flaps present in the original animation.

Makankosappo is 5 sylables, so whatever they translate it to also needs to be 5 sylables to match

Which I suppose ultimately works back around to "just use the original name"

User avatar
MisteryOne
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:27 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by MisteryOne » Sat Nov 02, 2024 6:28 pm

I love that you are doing Daima videos. You are probably the only DB youtuber I care for enough to watch a weekly discussion of an ongoing series episode by episode. It's kind of nice, feeling we are watching it together wothout you rushing out the video minutes later (or maybe it's just me prefering that because my current schedule even made me forget it came out this Friday).

I have said mostly all of what I felt about in the episode thread, but I mostly agree on it being the best episode yet, even as somepne who enjoys the lore dumps. At the same time, as you say the police stuff is the most egregious example of "as you know..." because, above all, when the demon guy is being literally hold up by the staff he screams "they got me! they got me!" Like, yeah, we are seeing! I would lie if if I said it actually bothered me tho, the one thing that did take me put of the episode were the insects being able to fuse (of course, it isn't ridiculous for DB, but it felt like too obvious of an excuse for another Goku-Vegeta fusion that doesn't contradict Super, I hope I am wrong and they do something interesting with it but even as someone who used to get hyped by Vegetto, it got an eyeroll from me). However the pacing of the series is so fresh and good, I hope it later doesn't crash down and burn like the Granolah arc. I'm so surprised I'm having so much of a better time watching than with Super since I was expecting the opposite, then again Super had an abbysmal start as a retelling.

I didn't even see the fish on my first view. It's hilarious. I want to use it as a reaction. It reminds me of my pet bunny judging. Excluding that, I love Glorio's deadpan response of "It's Glorio". The guy is generic for sure, but I find him the most entertaining character in the show so far, both because of how it's clear he's hiding something (which surprisingly given Daima's record hasn't been literally told to us) and because of how he reacts to Goku. He is not annoyed by him Vegeta style, he is just always stoic about everything. That however also makes me worried that he and Pantzy may end up being tossed aside when fighting (very glad he can at least fly) or that Vegeta and Piccolo joining the group will feel redundant. It also makes Kaioshin just...be there. I guess he's suspicious sure, but so far he is just uninteresting. I do wonder about the full group mechanics amd hope Pantzy can shake it up.

I am curious about your opinion of many things being now revealed to be from the Demon Realm, all pointy ears included. I have mixed feelings on it so far.

I know I'm saying a bunch of nothing, just wanted to show appreciation because I imagine those may become next to impposible to do once DBD December comes around.
English is not my first language. Please excuse my gramatical mistakes.

jcogginsa
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:12 pm

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by jcogginsa » Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:46 pm

I'm going to be honest, I literally cannot understand how anyone could equate what the 4-Star Dragon did to Pan and what the 3-Star Dragon did to Pan.

4-Star used a minimum of force to take Pan out of the fight with a single strike, in response to an attack initiated by Pan.

Whereas with the 3 Star Dragon, we can blatantly see that Pan is significantly more injured after her encounter with 3-Star. Her body is covered in bruises and her lip is bloody. None of that damage can be attributed to 4-Star, because 4-Star only her her in the back, not the face.

Like, in real life knocking a person out obviously hurts them badly, but it is very common in fiction for knocking someone out to be treated as a fairly harmless means of incapacitating them. That's what 4-Star did to Pan, he incapacitated her so he could focus on Goku. The fact that Pan is still conscious after the encounter with 3-Star doesn't indicate that 3-Star's attack was less damaging. What it indicates is that 3-Star was acting out of a sense of sadism rather than need.

You do make good points over all about how the show handles honor, but the specific comparison between those two moments just didn't really work for me

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:50 pm

Honor Is the New Stupidity - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Evil Dragon Arc Part 5

Hey, I can finally log in again! Hooray! Dragon Ball Dissection continues its look at those Evil Dragons! Si Xing Long suddenly decides he's the "honorable" one, while his counterpart, San Xing Long, is just all kinds of "dirty." But are they really all that different? Or is Si Xing Long just really, really dumb?
jcogginsa wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:46 pm I'm going to be honest, I literally cannot understand how anyone could equate what the 4-Star Dragon did to Pan and what the 3-Star Dragon did to Pan.

4-Star used a minimum of force to take Pan out of the fight with a single strike, in response to an attack initiated by Pan.

Whereas with the 3 Star Dragon, we can blatantly see that Pan is significantly more injured after her encounter with 3-Star. Her body is covered in bruises and her lip is bloody. None of that damage can be attributed to 4-Star, because 4-Star only her her in the back, not the face.

Like, in real life knocking a person out obviously hurts them badly, but it is very common in fiction for knocking someone out to be treated as a fairly harmless means of incapacitating them. That's what 4-Star did to Pan, he incapacitated her so he could focus on Goku. The fact that Pan is still conscious after the encounter with 3-Star doesn't indicate that 3-Star's attack was less damaging. What it indicates is that 3-Star was acting out of a sense of sadism rather than need.

You do make good points over all about how the show handles honor, but the specific comparison between those two moments just didn't really work for me
So here's the thing. I can equate what Si Xing Long does to Pan with what San Xing Long does to Pan because I have absolutely no idea what San Xing Long even does to Pan. Si Xing Long knocks her out. Great. Got it. Good. San Xing Long does... something? Or does he? Does he even attack her? I mean, I guess he does. Maybe. Geez, for all I know, she tripped and fell down! Yeah, almost certainly not, but the show does a *terrible* job of conveying what we're supposed to take away from that. And maybe I didn't do a great job of explaining why. But, well, here's me trying to make up for it.

The story is trying to convey that when we see San Xing Long swoop in and steal the Dragon Balls, he also beats her up for absolutely no reason at all. Unfortunately, the structure of the story obscures that. My point in the video is, until I compared images of her while making this video, I didn't notice that she wasn't ever-so-slightly scuffed up before. When presented with a Pan who is scuffed up, my first inclination is to think I must have forgotten that she was scuffed up before. Here's the logic: The last time I saw Pan do anything, it's when Si Xing Long beat her up. The next time I see her stumble into the scene, she looks beaten up. So, naturally, I assumed she looked beaten up because she was beaten up by the person I saw beat her up. It's a really weird and confusing structure to have another character implied to beat her up off screen in between the last beating we actually saw. Those two events end up blending together, and, generally speaking, our brains prioritize what we actually see happen.

Now, I think there is a way to properly imply that San Xing Long beat her up without actually seeing it. In the scene where San first appears, Pan needs to wake the hell up. We need to see that she's fine, she's able-bodied, she's ready to fight the good fight. She scoops up the bag with the Dragon Balls. Whatever. We now know for sure that Si Xing Long did not actually damage her in any way. Then an ominous shadow appears in front of her. Pan looks horrified. The end. Now that leaves an expectation in our mind that something bad is about to happen to her. Then when we see her again, and she's beaten up, we associate that with the last time we saw her. The way it is now it's all muddled. San got what he wanted. Pan looks peaceful the last time we see her. He has no motivation to do anything to her at this point. Like I said, if the two most obvious implications are that he did nothing to her or that he tortured her for literally no reason, we need a damn good reason to assume it's the latter.

So, yeah, I totally believe the story wants me to think that San Xing Long beat her up while she's unconscious, which is terrible. But it does an absolutely terrible job of conveying that. Hope that makes sense.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

User avatar
AliTheZombie13
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:29 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:58 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 5:50 pm San Xing Long does... something? Or does he? Does he even attack her? I mean, I guess he does. Maybe. Geez, for all I know, she tripped and fell down! Yeah, almost certainly not, but the show does a *terrible* job of conveying what we're supposed to take away from that.
...She got knocked out by 4-Star, fairly harmlessly. No more, no less.
Then he leaves her to sleep with Giru creepily watching her while he chases after Goku.
Next time we see her, Giru's dead, the Dragon Balls are stolen, and she's all bruised up.

Much like a lot of things in GT, the logic and execution isn't the best, but the show doesn't need to go through great lengths to explain what exactly happened there. It does a decent enough job of showing and not telling. I'm not very fond of the Evil Dragons arc, but I think you're nitpicking hard in this one instance.

Also, if we're going to equate that 4-Star is as much of a monster as 3-Star for knocking her out, then Gohan better get on his knees and cry that he's as bad as the Cyborgs when Trunks dies in the future timeline.
Personal Dragon Ball Arc Ranking:

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:41 pm

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:58 pm but I think you're nitpicking hard in this one instance.
Ohhh, you tell me that, and I'm just gonna double down and insist it's the most grievous sin of the entire show. Seriously, though, I don't know if you read the rest of the post you're quoting, but I did lay out exactly how the show could have competently gotten that point across without going to great lengths to explain everything. I'd be curious to know what you think. But it is completely ridiculous to have a character beat up a character before we see the actual aftermath of the first time she was beaten up. It's stupid and confusing. In fact, I'm now going to insist it's the absolute worst piece of writing that's ever been created by humans! They should be ashamed, and you should be ashamed for defending it. :wink:
Also, if we're going to equate that 4-Star is as much of a monster as 3-Star for knocking her out, then Gohan better get on his knees and cry that he's as bad as the Cyborgs when Trunks dies in the future timeline.
But see, that's not even a fair framing of what I said. You're coming at it backwards. I never said that Si was wrong or evil for knocking out Pan. I don't care in the slightest. What he did was fine. I just don't think it creates an effective counterpoint to San, especially if the show is going to present San's "evil"... whatever he does... in such a vague and muddied way. If San is supposed to have done something SOOOO MUCH WORSE than Si did, it better be clear that he did something really, really bad. This is his introduction, his defining character moment, but Pan's only slightly smudged and far more conscious than she was before. I just don't buy it. I'm all for subtlety, but this show does not earn it. It just hopes you fill in the gaps for it and skip over whatever doesn't fit.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

User avatar
AliTheZombie13
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:29 am

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by AliTheZombie13 » Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:30 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:41 pm Seriously, though, I don't know if you read the rest of the post you're quoting, but I did lay out exactly how the show could have competently gotten that point across without going to great lengths to explain everything. I'd be curious to know what you think.
I did read the posts, it's just that I disagree completely with your stance.

"We don't see the aftermath of the first beating."
We do. She's sleeping harmlessly and Giru is creeping over her.
Image

Then Giru gets killed and 3-Star moves in to beat her up while she's unconscious.
It's not a blink-and-you-miss-it moment either.

"He beat her up for no reason when she was already unconscious."
Because of course, there's no reason the evil character would do such a thing. Sadism? Nah.

In fact, Vegeta didn't need to kill Nappa, and Tenshinhan didn't need to break Yamcha's leg.
Seriously, why did they feel the need to do that? Trash writing!
Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:41 pm But see, that's not even a fair framing of what I said. You're coming at it backwards. I never said that Si was wrong or evil for knocking out Pan. I don't care in the slightest. What he did was fine. I just don't think it creates an effective counterpoint to San, especially if the show is going to present San's "evil"... whatever he does... in such a vague and muddied way. If San is supposed to have done something SOOOO MUCH WORSE than Si did, it better be clear that he did something really, really bad. This is his introduction, his defining character moment, but Pan's only slightly smudged and far more conscious than she was before. I just don't buy it. I'm all for subtlety, but this show does not earn it. It just hopes you fill in the gaps for it and skip over whatever doesn't fit.
Like you said, he beat the fuck out of an unconscious child for absolutely no reason, then used her as a meat shield.
She doesn't look "slightly smudged" by GT's censored standards, she looks pretty fucked up to me.

Image

I had zero issues interpreting what happened in-between.
There's nothing muddled and vague there.

Could have it been conveyed better? Absolutely.
But the writers are not at fault because you, in your own admission, didn't notice/forgot what was shown before.
Personal Dragon Ball Arc Ranking:

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6108
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/14/24!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Nov 11, 2024 11:46 pm

AliTheZombie13 wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:30 pm "We don't see the aftermath of the first beating."
We do. She's sleeping harmlessly and Giru is creeping over her.
That's not the aftermath. She's still unconscious. We don't know what state she's actually in.
Then Giru gets killed and 3-Star moves in to beat her up while she's unconscious.
It's not a blink-and-you-miss-it moment either.
Yeah, he moves in. You're adding the rest. There's just no logic to his actions as you and the show want me to believe. He wants to use her as a shield? Why doesn't he just do that then? That would make far more sense, that he was approaching her to kidnap her, than beating her up just to leave her where she is just to hope she wanders in on her own just so he might be in a situation to use her as a shield later. Actions have to follow a certain logic, even if they are evil.
"He beat her up for no reason when she was already unconscious."
Because of course, there's no reason the evil character would do such a thing. Sadism? Nah.
In fact, Vegeta shouldn't have killed Nappa for no reason like that, that's the worst writing ever!
That is an unfair comparison. To be fair, you're jumping ahead to what the subject of the next video is (characterization or the lack thereof), so I haven't had a chance to address that yet. But Vegeta killing Nappa is germane to his character and to the relationship that has been set up. He kills Nappa for a purpose. There's a causal relationship. It's not just sadism that flies in the face of logic. San's problem is that he has no character to speak of, so his actions aren't motivated by anything. Therefore, it's quite difficult to follow why he's doing what he's doing. But, again, I'll get into that next time.
She doesn't look "slightly smudged" by GT's censored standards, she looks pretty fucked up to me.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that because I think she looks fine. She doesn't look tortured. Just looks a bit dirty and her clothes a bit roughed up. Again, at least she's conscious. Still seems better to me. Had she been just abandoned and nothing else the last time we saw her, and then she shows up looking like this, sure, I'd agree with you. But they need more to that to imply a second physical altercation.
I had zero issues interpreting what happened in-between.
Good. I'm glad.
There's nothing muddled and vague there.

Could have it been conveyed better? Absolutely.
I feel like these statements contradict each other. If there's *nothing* muddled or vague, how could it have been conveyed better? If it could have been conveyed better, that must mean *something* is lacking, right? Even if you don't agree to the degree that I'm arguing, clearly we agree something is amiss here.
But the writers are not at fault because you, in your own admission, didn't notice/forgot what was shown before.
I think you're forgetting some important context here. We have the ability to run back to a previous episode to check a detail. For people watching this on TV when it first aired (what the show was written for), there would have been a full two weeks in between those two shots. Not only is it a weekly show, they decided to pull focus by putting a full-episode clip show in between the setup and resolution. I just don't find it nearly as hard to believe as you do that other members of the audience besides me are going to go, "Hey, wait a second. Did Pan look like that before? I don't remember. That was two weeks ago. And she did get beaten up then, so I guess this is why she looks like that. Oh? The other guy did that? Okay, well, sure, I guess, but that's weird..." And unlike me, they wouldn't have had the ability to go back and check. Given that those two scenes were covered in separate DBD videos, I ended up having a similar re-viewing experience to someone who would have been watching this in '97 (a few weeks apart), and until I went back to verify, I very much did assume she must have gotten a little smudged when Si Xing Long knocked her out. I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption after a few weeks off, nor is it unreasonable to expect showrunners to be aware of that potentiality.

I do agree, though, that Giru is being weird and creepy. Or just sad and lonely. She's beaten him up far too much for him to have a crush on her. He needs therapy.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 5/19/25!)
Current Episode: The Origin of Modern Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Dissection: Heya! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!

Post Reply