About DBS Goku

[jjgp1112]

Piccolo on the other hand never killed anyone, at least in the manga. He didn't use anyone as a shield and didn't fight dirty.

He destroyed Papaya Island. No way everyone got off safely. He also tried to murder Goku, and would've made good on his threat to kill everyone else if he had won.

Yeah, people really need to go back and read the 23rd Tournament. Piccolo Jr. was an absolute unhinged psychopath, arguably even crazier than Big Daddy Piccolo. His more stoic, calm characterization starting from the beginning of the Saiyan arc is actually quite a departure.

I will check the manga later on, but I don't believe it was mentioned that anyone died. There is no denying Piccolo would have killed everyone, once he killed Goku.

Piccolo didn't use anyone as a hostage, like Piccolo Daimao. Against Piccolo Daimao, Goku had to get hit on purpose or Tenshinhan dies.

If you think every human escaped just because there were no confirmed casualties then I dunno what to tell you. (And how would we know? Everyone relevant to the cast survived, so that's that.)

And like, regardless of whether anyone actually was killed, he sure as hell had the intent. You don't let somebody off the hook for setting off a bomb in a building just because everybody evacuated before it exploded

And Piccolo Jr. never resorted to hostages because he was never backed into a corner and desperate the way Daimao was. Daimao only took that route when it was clear his goose was cooked. On the other hand, Jr. was firmly in control at the end of the fight by his own power.

[MasenkoHA]

Also Piccolo Daimao and Ma Junior are still supposed to be the same dude. Even when they acknowledge the new Piccolo is less evil (and as jjgp pointed out, it's arguably revisionism) it's still understood the guy who fought Goku at the Tenkaichi Budokai and helped defeat Raditz and kidnapped Gohan to train him is the same guy who conquered the earth via a coup at the King's Castle and put a hit on all martial artist and promised to destroy a district every 9th of May.

It's valid to use Daimao's actions against Junior to account for how evil he was.

[super michael]

Piccolo Daimao put a hit on martial artist, since he was afraid another Mafuba user would appear that can seal him.
Piccolo Jr on the other hand developed a technique to counter the Mafuba.
I guess Piccolo Jrs action were different since the circumstances was different.


Goku hates seeing innocent people die, that makes him angry as shown when Dr Gero was killing random people.
We didn't see Goku have any reaction to anyone dying against Piccolo Jr, therefore there is a chance that everyone survived.

Plus no one used the Dragon Balls to revive anyone, therefore the chance of someone being killed by Piccolo Jrs seems low.


Would he have killed everyone on earth once he killed Goku? 99.99% yes.


Edit I just thought of something about Goku Black, I pointed how dumb Goku was for not using IT, to teleport to Future Master Roshi to get the required items to seal Zamasu and Fused Zamasu. However why didn't Kaioshin or Gowasu create the urn and talisman with their magic.
Kaioshin can create anything, even the strongest metal in the universe.

[GokuHater]

For me Super Goku is dumbed down considerably.

I really do enjoy Goku character through OG, Z and GT even. In Super he always felt off to me.

Goku was never the brightest tool in the shed and always loved fighting. However these traits never took up all the character. When I think of the character, I instantly think optimism, courage, intelligence, love for figthig. All of these traits were mixed in some percentage where one or the other would occasionally be dominant. But it was never 100% that and nothing more. And I'm talking about manga Goku, not anime superhero Goku.
True, he was selfish (he let Vegeta and Piccolo go not because of mercy but his desire to fight them again), he made stupid decisions (destroying the potara) and did some morally questionable shit (leaving his family for many years) but still you had a sense that he knows what he's doing and that everything will turn all right. In the Buu saga he was portrayed as a veteran, who is very experienced in what he does.

Super presents him more as a bumbling optimistic idiot, who more often than not had to be guided to do something. That falls into a shonen young hero stereotype, the problem is that's not the Goku we left in Z. That's Goku from OG Dragon Ball and even before 22 Tenkaichi.

Also I refuse to believe that that was always Goku and the anime just changed his persona. I have read the original manga a dozen times and he's nowhere near that level. He loves fighting but isn't obsessed with it. He does genuine altruistic stuff apart from his Saiyan nature. And while maybe he isn't that perfect of a father, he clearly loves and cares for his family

The Super anime destroyed it even further with comic relief such as Goku does not know how to kiss, Goku does not know what meditation is, Goku forgets senzu etc.
Manga Super Goku is indeed portrayed better for me but still it isn't the same Goku I remember.

[tonysoprano300]

There's no reason to. There are no lasting consequences. The Dragon Balls put things right every time.

No, Vegeta isn't a better person. He is just as culpable for all of it as Goku is, and worse. It's disingenuous to claim Vegeta wouldn't put people he cares about and strangers in danger for the sake of a fight. Even after his development, he would still make the same decisions Goku made.

You could make that same argument for a number of characters, saying because "Dragon Balls"(I believe Trunk's timeline was eviscerated because Goku forgot the seal to the Mafuba, but my guess is that we're doing the thing where things dont count because its another timeline) is very uninteresting to me and if that's what Super is commiting itself to then that's just not my cup of tea.

I disagree, I'm the opposite of a Vegeta defender but strictly within the context of Super Vegeta is by far the more pragmatic and ultruistic of the two

I would make that same argument and so would others bc DB is at this point put things right. If that's uninteresting to you, that's fine but it has been the case for decades. What lasting consequences are there? This started before Super.

How is Vegeta more pragmatic or "altruistic"? And how does any of that make up for what he's done such that he's a better person than Goku?

I don't buy that anyone cares about such ridiculously high stakes.

So we have seen characters turn over a new leaf or undergo change despite the existence of the DBs, Vegeta is the most popular example of this. When he unleashed Buu, he was made to reckon with the mess he created and sacrificed himself. My qualms with Vegeta's redemption arc is well documented but at least it was introduced in the story and led to some kind of resolution by the end of the series where you can legitimately identify a character arc. By the definition we are using, Buu saga didnt have any lasting consequnces but the events that transpired still changed Vegeta. In Super, Goku's recklessness in TOP was something the story took the time to acknowledge and it posed some compelling questions through the character of Toppo. But then its never dealt with beyond that, if I'm not supposed to care about Goku's morals then the story shouldnt waste time bringing it up in a dramatic way only to do nothing with it.

Vegeta wanted to see Freeza dead and didnt care for a rematch. Thats definitely more pragmatic and altruistic than Goku who wanted to let freeza go and endanger the earth again. In BOG Vegeta was willing to dance and humiliate himself in order to avoid angering Beerus compared to Goku who recklessly challenged him to a fight despite being told not to. In the broly movie, Vegeta was again not interested in letting Freeza go and felt it was a huge risk to do so while Goku didnt really care. I also just dont recall Vegeta making any collosal mistakes like Goku did, such as forgetting the Mafuba seal. I'm not making the claim that this makes up for the attrocities Vegeta has commited, I'm saying strictly within Super, Vegeta is far more well behaved than Goku is.

[ABED]

You could make that same argument for a number of characters, saying because "Dragon Balls"(I believe Trunk's timeline was eviscerated because Goku forgot the seal to the Mafuba, but my guess is that we're doing the thing where things dont count because its another timeline) is very uninteresting to me and if that's what Super is commiting itself to then that's just not my cup of tea.

I disagree, I'm the opposite of a Vegeta defender but strictly within the context of Super Vegeta is by far the more pragmatic and ultruistic of the two

I would make that same argument and so would others bc DB is at this point put things right. If that's uninteresting to you, that's fine but it has been the case for decades. What lasting consequences are there? This started before Super.

How is Vegeta more pragmatic or "altruistic"? And how does any of that make up for what he's done such that he's a better person than Goku?

I don't buy that anyone cares about such ridiculously high stakes.

So we have seen characters turn over a new leaf or undergo change despite the existence of the DBs, Vegeta is the most popular example of this. When he unleashed Buu, he was made to reckon with the mess he created and sacrificed himself. My qualms with Vegeta's redemption arc is well documented but at least it was introduced in the story and led to some kind of resolution by the end of the series where you can legitimately identify a character arc. By the definition we are using, Buu saga didnt have any lasting consequnces but the events that transpired still changed Vegeta. In Super, Goku's recklessness in TOP was something the story took the time to acknowledge and it posed some compelling questions through the character of Toppo. But then its never dealt with beyond that, if I'm not supposed to care about Goku's morals then the story shouldnt waste time bringing it up in a dramatic way only to do nothing with it.

Vegeta wanted to see Freeza dead and didnt care for a rematch. Thats definitely more pragmatic and altruistic than Goku who wanted to let freeza go and endanger the earth again. In BOG Vegeta was willing to dance and humiliate himself in order to avoid angering Beerus compared to Goku who recklessly challenged him to a fight despite being told not to. In the broly movie, Vegeta was again not interested in letting Freeza go and felt it was a huge risk to do so while Goku didnt really care. I also just dont recall Vegeta making any collosal mistakes like Goku did, such as forgetting the Mafuba seal. I'm not making the claim that this makes up for the attrocities Vegeta has commited, I'm saying strictly within Super, Vegeta is far more well behaved than Goku is.

I'm gonna say this again until people finally acknowledge it - the TOP wasn't Goku's idea. He's not the one at fault for it. It was Zen-o's idea. He got the idea from the Universe 7 vs. 6 tournament. Sure, Goku may have made it happen sooner, but it was going to happen anyway. The story isn't ultimately concerned in any significant way about the ethics of what Goku is doing. The reason it is brought up is to provide motivation for characters like Toppo, which is reason enough to write it that way. Goku doesn't fear hitting the beehive and while reckless, it's also been a huge benefit. Goku doesn't fear Zen-o or Beerus the way others like Vegeta do bc he has the innocence of a child. He has purity of intention. he just wants to fight Beerus for sport. It's ultimately this purity that turns his enemies into allies. It's a recurring theme throughout all of DB. That's not inherently a bad trait.

And no wanting to kill Freeza isn't more "altruistic". He's not doing it for anyone else. He's doing it bc he's doesn't give a shit about Freeza or getting a better fight out of someone he doesn't respect as a fighter.

[Grimlock]

Sure, Goku may have made it happen sooner, but it was going to happen anyway.

Was it, though? What could guarantee Zeno would have remembered it if it wasn't for Goku asking about it?

[ABED]

Sure, Goku may have made it happen sooner, but it was going to happen anyway.

Was it, though? What could guarantee Zeno would have remembered it if it wasn't for Goku asking about it?

I'm aware of the scene, but how would anyone except Goku and Zen-o know about that and how is Goku supposed to know Zen-o was so blasé about everything that he'd forget about the tournament? I think it's less the story is putting the blame on Goku and more a point about Zen-o's child like nature along with his omnipotence.

He could just as easily remember down the road. Perhaps one of the angels might have brought it up. There are numerous ways. None of that is on Goku.

How is this one scene the reason so many people here seem to think Goku is solely responsible for the tournament? I guess it makes sense. People keep claiming he was unaware that Gohan didn't enjoy fighting like he did even though there is EXPLICIT evidence to the contrary. I bring this up bc it's another example of people disregarding evidence in favor of a (very weird) narrative.

[Grimlock]

He is not solely responsible, but he still is responsible. As you can see, it was Goku who remembered Zeno about it. We don't have any evidence that he would have remembered eventually, or that Daishinkan would have brought it up. What we have is Goku personally asking Zeno about it.

Just to clarify, I don't have any horse here. I don't care if it was Goku or Toribot who decided to hold a tournament. However, I'm all to be fair, and as far as fairness goes, Goku is partly to blame, yes.

[ABED]

He is not solely responsible, but he still is responsible. As you can see, it was Goku who remembered Zeno about it. We don't have any evidence that he would have remembered eventually, or that Daishinkan would have brought it up. What we have is Goku personally asking Zeno about it.

Just to clarify, I don't have any horse here. I don't care if it was Goku or Toribot who decided to hold a tournament. However, I'm all to be fair, and as far as fairness goes, Goku is partly to blame, yes.

You don't need evidence. It's basic human behavior. The entire point of Zen-o is that he's very childlike and yet omnipotent. He likes doing things that amuse him for no greater reason than they are fun. It's why he's friends with Goku. He could remember for the same reason he forgot. So many took a simple joke about the most powerful being in the universe behaving like a child and ran with it as a way to blame Goku. For what? The extent to which I blame Goku is that he made it happen sooner.

My biggest issue with the way Super Goku is written is he's more exaggerated than he previously was. He's always been childlike, no matter how mature he got, but Super felt like when a new showrunner comes into a series. It's always gonna feel slightly different. And as any show goes on, tone changes and characteristics get exaggerated. It's not inherently a bad thing.

[tonysoprano300]

I would make that same argument and so would others bc DB is at this point put things right. If that's uninteresting to you, that's fine but it has been the case for decades. What lasting consequences are there? This started before Super.

How is Vegeta more pragmatic or "altruistic"? And how does any of that make up for what he's done such that he's a better person than Goku?

I don't buy that anyone cares about such ridiculously high stakes.

So we have seen characters turn over a new leaf or undergo change despite the existence of the DBs, Vegeta is the most popular example of this. When he unleashed Buu, he was made to reckon with the mess he created and sacrificed himself. My qualms with Vegeta's redemption arc is well documented but at least it was introduced in the story and led to some kind of resolution by the end of the series where you can legitimately identify a character arc. By the definition we are using, Buu saga didnt have any lasting consequnces but the events that transpired still changed Vegeta. In Super, Goku's recklessness in TOP was something the story took the time to acknowledge and it posed some compelling questions through the character of Toppo. But then its never dealt with beyond that, if I'm not supposed to care about Goku's morals then the story shouldnt waste time bringing it up in a dramatic way only to do nothing with it.

Vegeta wanted to see Freeza dead and didnt care for a rematch. Thats definitely more pragmatic and altruistic than Goku who wanted to let freeza go and endanger the earth again. In BOG Vegeta was willing to dance and humiliate himself in order to avoid angering Beerus compared to Goku who recklessly challenged him to a fight despite being told not to. In the broly movie, Vegeta was again not interested in letting Freeza go and felt it was a huge risk to do so while Goku didnt really care. I also just dont recall Vegeta making any collosal mistakes like Goku did, such as forgetting the Mafuba seal. I'm not making the claim that this makes up for the attrocities Vegeta has commited, I'm saying strictly within Super, Vegeta is far more well behaved than Goku is.

I'm gonna say this again until people finally acknowledge it - the TOP wasn't Goku's idea. He's not the one at fault for it. It was Zen-o's idea. He got the idea from the Universe 7 vs. 6 tournament. Sure, Goku may have made it happen sooner, but it was going to happen anyway. The story isn't ultimately concerned in any significant way about the ethics of what Goku is doing. The reason it is brought up is to provide motivation for characters like Toppo, which is reason enough to write it that way. Goku doesn't fear hitting the beehive and while reckless, it's also been a huge benefit. Goku doesn't fear Zen-o or Beerus the way others like Vegeta do bc he has the innocence of a child. He has purity of intention. he just wants to fight Beerus for sport. It's ultimately this purity that turns his enemies into allies. It's a recurring theme throughout all of DB. That's not inherently a bad trait.

And no wanting to kill Freeza isn't more "altruistic". He's not doing it for anyone else. He's doing it bc he's doesn't give a shit about Freeza or getting a better fight out of someone he doesn't respect as a fighter.

Does that really matter though? from a process standpoint Goku was explicitly warned not to do something and ignored those warnings because he was bored, not for any other reason and he even acknowledges in the anime how unpredictable Zeno can be because he was him erase the future timeline on a whim and still handwaved it by going "it will be fine". Purity is not the word I would use to describe that situation. Beerus and Whis had reasonable cause to make sure Goku does not remind Zeno of the tournament because anything is liable to happen, in the end It still reflects poorly on Goku because you can evaluate how people make decisions even if the end result was good. But even regardless of that, why use that as motivation? the tournament of power was gonna happen regardless and he was gonna have to fight Toppo anyway so its not like they needed to add that into the story to make it work. Other characters aside from Toppo do criticize Goku for this, including Beerus and his own son Gohan. The idea that they made it up because they desperately wanted to give Toppo a motivation would make a lot more sense if Toppo alone was the guy criticizing him, but if even his own son like "WTF Dad" then its entirely reasonable to assume that there's supposed to be ambiguity there. Which would be great, I think a lot of fans would be interested in exploring this side of Goku with a little more depth. But if they're not going to do that, then don't use Goku's recklessness as part of the impetus for the tournament and dont have multiple characters question his morals as a result of that. Its just a flat out waste of time, just begin the arc with Grand Priest visiting the Supreme Kai's planet and telling them about the tournament.

Thats not true, Vegeta expressly says in the broly movie that Freeza being alive is a big risk because he could return to earth at any moment and defeat them. And that Goku is an idiot for letting him live...which he ended up being entirely correct about.

[ABED]

There's nothing desperate about it. It's a good motivation. Blame the guy you are fighting for the end of the world. A whole hell of a lot easier than going up against an omnipotent being.

If Vegeta actually does care that much, he could kill Freeza himself. That he doesn't says a lot, ergo he's not nearly all that pragmatic. It's like when people blame only Goku on letting Dr. Gero live to create the cyborgs. Sure, Bulma and others brought up taking pre-emptive action, but when they were shot down, no one did anything. If anyone else had any real objection, they could've done something. They didn't have a real issue, hence why they didn't do anything. Vegeta didn't kill Freeza even though it would've been prudent bc he doesn't care that much about Freeza nor does he fear him.

[Koitsukai]

There's nothing desperate about it. It's a good motivation. Blame the guy you are fighting for the end of the world. A whole hell of a lot easier than going up against an omnipotent being.

If Vegeta actually does care that much, he could kill Freeza himself. That he doesn't says a lot, ergo he's not nearly all that pragmatic. It's like when people blame only Goku on letting Dr. Gero live to create the cyborgs. Sure, Bulma and others brought up taking pre-emptive action, but when they were shot down, no one did anything. If anyone else had any real objection, they could've done something. They didn't have a real issue, hence why they didn't do anything. Vegeta didn't kill Freeza even though it would've been prudent bc he doesn't care that much about Freeza nor does he fear him.

I know the Dr. Gero's Minority Report discussion has been beaten to a pulp, but during a recent re-watch of that arc, I'm surprised Future Bulma never thought of doing what Present Bulma did.
I'm assuming after 20 years she knows where Dr. Gero might have been working in the past(and if not, the DBs sure will tell you where he is), but she never sent Trunks there to stop him from ever creating anything, only "let them know so they can beat the shit out of them when they arrive".
Perhaps she wanted the androids to get some knuckle soup instead of getting aborted.

[Grimlock]

My biggest issue with the way Super Goku is written is he's more exaggerated than he previously was. He's always been childlike, no matter how mature he got, but Super felt like when a new showrunner comes into a series. It's always gonna feel slightly different. And as any show goes on, tone changes and characteristics get exaggerated. It's not inherently a bad thing.

That we agree. I get that a few like to say "Goku is dumb in the original" or stuff like that, but I guess that's the difference. Dragon Ball Super takes it to another level. To a level where it becomes very noticeable and may bother the hell out of people. You don't see as much complaint about it for the movies, because they don't exaggerate them as the series does.

[super michael]

My biggest issue with the way Super Goku is written is he's more exaggerated than he previously was. He's always been childlike, no matter how mature he got, but Super felt like when a new showrunner comes into a series. It's always gonna feel slightly different. And as any show goes on, tone changes and characteristics get exaggerated. It's not inherently a bad thing.

That we agree. I get that a few like to say "Goku is dumb in the original" or stuff like that, but I guess that's the difference. Dragon Ball Super takes it to another level. To a level where it becomes very noticeable and may bother the hell out of people. You don't see as much complaint about it for the movies, because they don't exaggerate them as the series does.

In Goku Black Saga alone Goku did many things wrong such as these:

- Being a pest to Zamasu, that is why Zamasu gets mad and steal his body
- Forget senzu beans
- Forget urn
- Forget talisman
- Believes senzu beans = immortality

5 things in just 1 saga. Then the episode Beerus wears a costume, they couldn't have Goku pretending to be dumb to get his way, he has to be dumb for real. In DBS Super Hero they turned him into a amateur.

Goku has issues with what Vegeta does and doesn't do, when it comes to training. He even has problem when Vegeta train and doesn't train.


So yes they exaggerated DBS Goku being dumb and even contradicts what he knews and acted like in Dragon Ball manga.

[Freezer94]

Reading the last several posts on this thread really reinforce that Toei Super and Toyotarou Super are vastly different and the sins of the anime plague the overall discussion.

Cause in the manga:
Goku was never a pest to Zamas
Goku didn't forget the senzu
Goku didn't forget any of the mafuba stuff (though the scroll was mixed up with another thing of the same size)
And in repeatedly states Goku isn't responsible for the TOP and actually a good thing here cause the Lord of everything was going to destroy all those universes anyway, and the TOP gave one an opportunity to survive (and actually gave them all one by the end).

The only moment I see with the manga getting brought up with is Moro and I'm in the camp that thinks it's fine cause Goku was so massively above Moro at that point that he couldn't have known what could have gone wrong. Though if you disagree it's still just one mistake and not a bunch like the anime seems to have.

Also I believe the Super Hero manga adoption fixes the meditation line.

[SupremeKai25]

Reading the last several posts on this thread really reinforce that Toei Super and Toyotarou Super are vastly different and the sins of the anime plague the overall discussion.

Cause in the manga:
Goku was never a pest to Zamas
Goku didn't forget the senzu
Goku didn't forget any of the mafuba stuff (though the scroll was mixed up with another thing of the same size)
And in repeatedly states Goku isn't responsible for the TOP and actually a good thing here cause the Lord of everything was going to destroy all those universes anyway, and the TOP gave one an opportunity to survive (and actually gave them all one by the end).

The only moment I see with the manga getting brought up with is Moro and I'm in the camp that thinks it's fine cause Goku was so massively above Moro at that point that he couldn't have known what could have gone wrong. Though if you disagree it's still just one mistake and not a bunch like the anime seems to have.

Also I believe the Super Hero manga adoption fixes the meditation line.

"Sins" and "Plague", lol... it's amazing how a harmless cartoon for children can be hated with such passion.

Anyway, the Anime also reinforces multiple times that Goku isn't responsible for the universes' erasure and should be thanked for giving them a fighting chance.

[Freezer94]

Sorry for the dramatic words, I didn't mean it that seriously.

Also I haven't seen thus far in the anime yet, still in the Goku Black arc of that version.

[super michael]

Reading the last several posts on this thread really reinforce that Toei Super and Toyotarou Super are vastly different and the sins of the anime plague the overall discussion.

Cause in the manga:
Goku was never a pest to Zamas
Goku didn't forget the senzu
Goku didn't forget any of the mafuba stuff (though the scroll was mixed up with another thing of the same size)
And in repeatedly states Goku isn't responsible for the TOP and actually a good thing here cause the Lord of everything was going to destroy all those universes anyway, and the TOP gave one an opportunity to survive (and actually gave them all one by the end).

The only moment I see with the manga getting brought up with is Moro and I'm in the camp that thinks it's fine cause Goku was so massively above Moro at that point that he couldn't have known what could have gone wrong. Though if you disagree it's still just one mistake and not a bunch like the anime seems to have.

Also I believe the Super Hero manga adoption fixes the meditation line.

"Sins" and "Plague", lol... it's amazing how a harmless cartoon for children can be hated with such passion.

Anyway, the Anime also reinforces multiple times that Goku isn't responsible for the universes' erasure and should be thanked for giving them a fighting chance.

Zamasu traveled to the future 1,000 year, yet the universe still exist. There is no guarantee that Zeno would have erased it.

Goku didn't go to Zeno place to save the Universe, he went to start a tournament, which Beerus and Whis warned that it was risky. Goku just got lucky that is all.

[SupremeKai25]

Reading the last several posts on this thread really reinforce that Toei Super and Toyotarou Super are vastly different and the sins of the anime plague the overall discussion.

Cause in the manga:
Goku was never a pest to Zamas
Goku didn't forget the senzu
Goku didn't forget any of the mafuba stuff (though the scroll was mixed up with another thing of the same size)
And in repeatedly states Goku isn't responsible for the TOP and actually a good thing here cause the Lord of everything was going to destroy all those universes anyway, and the TOP gave one an opportunity to survive (and actually gave them all one by the end).

The only moment I see with the manga getting brought up with is Moro and I'm in the camp that thinks it's fine cause Goku was so massively above Moro at that point that he couldn't have known what could have gone wrong. Though if you disagree it's still just one mistake and not a bunch like the anime seems to have.

Also I believe the Super Hero manga adoption fixes the meditation line.

"Sins" and "Plague", lol... it's amazing how a harmless cartoon for children can be hated with such passion.

Anyway, the Anime also reinforces multiple times that Goku isn't responsible for the universes' erasure and should be thanked for giving them a fighting chance.

Zamasu traveled to the future 1,000 year, yet the universe still exist. There is no guarantee that Zeno would have erased it.

U10 still exists 1,000 years into the future because Android 17 restored the erased universes at the end of the ToP. WTH is this argument?

Goku didn't go to Zeno place to save the Universe, he went to start a tournament, which Beerus and Whis warned that it was risky. Goku just got lucky that is all.

What Beerus and Whis think is irrelevant because we as the audience learned that Goku indeed gave the universes a fighting chance as Zeno was always planning to do some clean-up, even before Goku came up with the ToP idea.

And anyway, it is quite literally the exact same thing in the Manga.