About DBS Goku

[tonysoprano300]

I'd say it's obvious that you're not even trying to understand what Super is telling you.

You are not even trying to give it a chance.

So I can't say I'm surprised by this remark.

I do care about what Super tries to say, if I just turned my brain off and enjoyed the pretty fights, maybe I wouldn't hate it so much.
It's just that absolutely nothing what you said there is properly reflected in the story, you're seeing things that weren't meant to be there, sorry.

So you can only enjoy Super if you're stupid and only care about fights?

You sound very open-minded, lol!

Anyway, for someone who only cares about what is literally stated on-screen (logical connections and context be damned), you keep dismissing how it's stated on-screen by the other Gods that Goku gave the universes a chance to save themselves, and that Zeno was planning to erase the universes even before the Tournament of Power.

We keep going back to this point but it’s not really relevant. Goku made that decision without knowing those things would happen. He was warned by Beerus and he himself even agreed with Beerus that Zeno is unpredictable and liable to do anything. Goku acknowledged this, you can go back and watch that episode and observe him acknowledging it yet he still did it anyway. Thats the point, just because it happened to be the right decision in the end doesn’t retroactively justify how he made that choice in the beginning. It was the same thing when he allowed Vegeta to escape.

[SupremeKai25]

I do care about what Super tries to say, if I just turned my brain off and enjoyed the pretty fights, maybe I wouldn't hate it so much.
It's just that absolutely nothing what you said there is properly reflected in the story, you're seeing things that weren't meant to be there, sorry.

So you can only enjoy Super if you're stupid and only care about fights?

You sound very open-minded, lol!

Anyway, for someone who only cares about what is literally stated on-screen (logical connections and context be damned), you keep dismissing how it's stated on-screen by the other Gods that Goku gave the universes a chance to save themselves, and that Zeno was planning to erase the universes even before the Tournament of Power.

We keep going back to this point but it’s not really relevant. Goku made that decision without knowing those things would happen. He was warned by Beerus and he himself even agreed with Beerus that Zeno is unpredictable and liable to do anything. Goku acknowledged this, you can go back and watch that episode and observe him acknowledging it yet he still did it anyway. Thats the point, just because it happened to be the right decision in the end doesn’t retroactively justify how he made that choice in the beginning. It was the same thing when he allowed Vegeta to escape.

Why should Goku assume that the losing teams in a tournament will be erased?

[AliTheZombie13]

So you can only enjoy Super if you're stupid and only care about fights?

You sound very open-minded, lol!

People come to Dragon Ball for different reasons.
Some come only for the fight scenes, to the point people have made it a meme that "You don't watch Dragon Ball for the plot."
If these people want to watch Dragon Ball for the fights and nothing else, power to them, I'm just not one of them.

And here is the big problem:
Super barely offered me anything of quality that wasn't the fight scenes.
Every character behaves like a caricature, and Goku is no exception.

When Super's main shtick of handling Goku is to hammer down the notion that he is no hero of justice, that he just wants to fight and nothing else, that he is such a manchild that he can't count properly, remember to bring important items to stop a mass-murderer, or know what a damn kiss is, to the point he keeps making terrible dangerous decisions that ended up destroying the Earth multiple times, then what am I supposed to take from this?

If there is any consistency to Super, it's that Goku is an inconsiderate idiot. Your entire head-canon that, "No, no, no. Goku is actually being thoughtful here, he actually senses killing intent and understands Zeno and stuff." Contradicts everything Super told me and shown me about Goku. He can't sense Monaka is a weakling and punches him in the face, can't sense that Zamasu is Hitler-in-training and provokes him anyway, with the knowledge that he'll commit genocide in the future. Now I'm supposed to believe he deeply understands Zeno and somehow sensed Beerus and Whis weren't dead serious?

For someone who kept telling me that I shouldn't be inserting my head-canon into the show, you sure like to do that a lot.
I would love to believe your words, but Super's writing isn't that good.

[tonysoprano300]

So you can only enjoy Super if you're stupid and only care about fights?

You sound very open-minded, lol!

Anyway, for someone who only cares about what is literally stated on-screen (logical connections and context be damned), you keep dismissing how it's stated on-screen by the other Gods that Goku gave the universes a chance to save themselves, and that Zeno was planning to erase the universes even before the Tournament of Power.

We keep going back to this point but it’s not really relevant. Goku made that decision without knowing those things would happen. He was warned by Beerus and he himself even agreed with Beerus that Zeno is unpredictable and liable to do anything. Goku acknowledged this, you can go back and watch that episode and observe him acknowledging it yet he still did it anyway. Thats the point, just because it happened to be the right decision in the end doesn’t retroactively justify how he made that choice in the beginning. It was the same thing when he allowed Vegeta to escape.

Why should Goku assume that the losing teams in a tournament will be erased?

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

[SupremeKai25]

We keep going back to this point but it’s not really relevant. Goku made that decision without knowing those things would happen. He was warned by Beerus and he himself even agreed with Beerus that Zeno is unpredictable and liable to do anything. Goku acknowledged this, you can go back and watch that episode and observe him acknowledging it yet he still did it anyway. Thats the point, just because it happened to be the right decision in the end doesn’t retroactively justify how he made that choice in the beginning. It was the same thing when he allowed Vegeta to escape.

Why should Goku assume that the losing teams in a tournament will be erased?

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

[super michael]

Why should Goku assume that the losing teams in a tournament will be erased?

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because Zeno erased a whole time line, when he could have just erased Zamasu. We know Zeno can choose what to get erased, yet he chose to erase everyone and everything. Goku wasn't just told about Zeno powers, he witnessed it first hand. So Goku knows Beerus and Whis are not exaggerating.

So Goku had everything reason to believe that if things goes wrong, then Zeno could do the same for the present time line.
Goku doesn't need to know how or why it could happens, just that it could happen.

[SupremeKai25]

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because Zeno erased a whole time line, when he could have just erased Zamasu. We know Zeno can choose what to get erased, yet he chose to erase everyone and everything. Goku wasn't just told about Zeno powers, he witnessed it first hand. So Goku knows Beerus and Whis are not exaggerating.

So Goku had everything reason to believe that if things goes wrong, then Zeno could do the same for the present time line.
Goku doesn't need to know how or why it could happens, just that it could happen.

He erased the whole Cosmos because Zamasu became the whole Cosmos.

This is literally stated on-screen.

[super michael]

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because Zeno erased a whole time line, when he could have just erased Zamasu. We know Zeno can choose what to get erased, yet he chose to erase everyone and everything. Goku wasn't just told about Zeno powers, he witnessed it first hand. So Goku knows Beerus and Whis are not exaggerating.

So Goku had everything reason to believe that if things goes wrong, then Zeno could do the same for the present time line.
Goku doesn't need to know how or why it could happens, just that it could happen.

He erased the whole Cosmos because Zamasu became the whole Cosmos.

This is literally stated on-screen.

Zeno could choose to just erase Zamasu only, while leaving the universe in that time line how it is. We know the time line doesn't exist, since the time ring got destroyed.

Goku knew what happened to that time line, he even saw there was nothing. All the innocent people erased.

[SupremeKai25]

Because Zeno erased a whole time line, when he could have just erased Zamasu. We know Zeno can choose what to get erased, yet he chose to erase everyone and everything. Goku wasn't just told about Zeno powers, he witnessed it first hand. So Goku knows Beerus and Whis are not exaggerating.

So Goku had everything reason to believe that if things goes wrong, then Zeno could do the same for the present time line.
Goku doesn't need to know how or why it could happens, just that it could happen.

He erased the whole Cosmos because Zamasu became the whole Cosmos.

This is literally stated on-screen.

Zeno could choose to just erase Zamasu only, while leaving the universe in that time line how it is. We know the time line doesn't exist, since the time ring got destroyed.

Goku knew what happened to that time line, he even saw there was nothing. All the innocent people erased.

I quite literally just told you that Zamasu became the universe, so he couldn't "just erase Zamasu and leave the universe alone".

You're not even listening.

[super michael]

He erased the whole Cosmos because Zamasu became the whole Cosmos.

This is literally stated on-screen.

Zeno could choose to just erase Zamasu only, while leaving the universe in that time line how it is. We know the time line doesn't exist, since the time ring got destroyed.

Goku knew what happened to that time line, he even saw there was nothing. All the innocent people erased.

I quite literally just told you that Zamasu became the universe, so he couldn't "just erase Zamasu and leave the universe alone".

You're not even listening.

I am listening and I am saying that you are wrong. Zeno can choose whatever he wants to erase, he can choose the object, materials and living beings. He can choose the planet, galaxy and universe.

Goku went back to Future Trunks time line, to bring Future Zeno to the present. So he saw the result.
Goku should think that can happen to the present time line.

Goku heard how there used to be 18 universe, but 6 universe got erased. Then he saw it himself how Zeno did it in a time line.

[SupremeKai25]

I am listening and I am saying that you are wrong. Zeno can choose whatever he wants to erase, he can choose the object, materials and living beings. He can choose the planet, galaxy and universe.

Yes, and he had to erase the Cosmos, because Zamasu became "the very fabric of the Cosmos".

It's simple to understand.

Why can't we just agree on the very basics... I don't understand...

[tonysoprano300]

Why should Goku assume that the losing teams in a tournament will be erased?

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because they told him that was the case and he even agreed that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, he still took the risk anyway.

Zeno is a petulant rash child, who could simply erase everything because he happens to be in a bad mood. That is the information that Goku was given from reputable sources and Goku even acknowledged it. Even his own son Gohan, condemned him and called him irresponsible.

If a tour guide on a safari warns me not to feed the animals, then I'm probably gonna listen to the guy who knows these things better than me. If i didn’t listen, then people are 100% justified in calling me an irresponsible idiot.

[super michael]

I am listening and I am saying that you are wrong. Zeno can choose whatever he wants to erase, he can choose the object, materials and living beings. He can choose the planet, galaxy and universe.

Yes, and he had to erase the Cosmos, because Zamasu became "the very fabric of the Cosmos".

It's simple to understand.

Why can't we just agree on the very basics... I don't understand...

Zeno chose to erase everything, he didn't need to erase everything just Zamasu.

Understand this Goku heard what Zeno did to 6 Universe. Goku saw what Zeno did to the future time line, what made Goku think the same wouldn't happen to the present time line, especially when Whis and Beerus warned him and threatened him?
How or why Zeno would erase the present time line isn't important for Goku to know, all that he should know is that it is a risk.

[SupremeKai25]

He should assume that Zeno is an unpredictable child that may do rash things in response to even the smallest stimuli. Because that’s what both Whis and Beerus told him, and that’s a risk he knowingly took. He doesn’t have to know the specificities of the potential dangerous outcomes, he just has to understand that something dangerous can happen.

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because they told him that was the case and he even agreed that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, he still took the risk anyway.

Zeno is a petulant rash child, who could simply erase everything because he happens to be in a bad mood. That is the information that Goku was given from reputable sources and Goku even acknowledged it. Even his own son Gohan, condemned him and called him irresponsible.

If a tour guide on a safari warns me not to feed the animals, then I'm probably gonna listen to the guy who knows these things better than me. If i didn’t listen, then people are 100% justified in calling me an irresponsible idiot.

They also told him not to get near Zeno, and he still did it, and nothing happened to him. In fact, he gained a new friend.

Whis and Beerus DON'T know how Zeno works or thinks, so that's a false equivalence.

You just finished saying that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, so why are you claiming that Whis and Beerus know him?

[super michael]

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because they told him that was the case and he even agreed that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, he still took the risk anyway.

Zeno is a petulant rash child, who could simply erase everything because he happens to be in a bad mood. That is the information that Goku was given from reputable sources and Goku even acknowledged it. Even his own son Gohan, condemned him and called him irresponsible.

If a tour guide on a safari warns me not to feed the animals, then I'm probably gonna listen to the guy who knows these things better than me. If i didn’t listen, then people are 100% justified in calling me an irresponsible idiot.

They also told him not to get near Zeno, and he still did it, and nothing happened to him. In fact, he gained a new friend.

Whis and Beerus DON'T know how Zeno works or thinks, so that's a false equivalence.

You just finished saying that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, so why are you claiming that Whis and Beerus know him?

I will agree with that Whis and Beerus can't predict how Zeno thinks and reacts, however they have seen him erase universe. There used to be more than 12 universe, that is what Whis and Beerus said. Even for the silliest of reason, Zeno can choose to erase universe.
Goku heard about it and Goku saw him first hand, he saw innocent people get erased.

True Goku and Zeno being friends is a good thing. He became friends thanks to him not listening.

[tonysoprano300]

Why should Goku assume that this "rash thing" is the literal destruction of everything?

Y'all are just using the power of Hindsight.

Yeah, in hindsight Goku should have realized there was a 0.1% chance that the losing universe would be erased, because Zeno is that wild. But surely you can understand that, in the moment itself, he had no reason to assume such a drastic outcome.

Because they told him that was the case and he even agreed that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, he still took the risk anyway.

Zeno is a petulant rash child, who could simply erase everything because he happens to be in a bad mood. That is the information that Goku was given from reputable sources and Goku even acknowledged it. Even his own son Gohan, condemned him and called him irresponsible.

If a tour guide on a safari warns me not to feed the animals, then I'm probably gonna listen to the guy who knows these things better than me. If i didn’t listen, then people are 100% justified in calling me an irresponsible idiot.

They also told him not to get near Zeno, and he still did it, and nothing happened to him. In fact, he gained a new friend.

Whis and Beerus DON'T know how Zeno works or thinks, so that's a false equivalence.

You just finished saying that Zeno is rash and unpredictable, so why are you claiming that Whis and Beerus know him?

Whis and Beerus know that he’s rash and unpredictable. They don’t know what he’s liable to do and that’s the point. Not knowing how someone thinks is a good enough reason to not mess around with them. Especially if said person has a track record of erasing universes without reasonable explanation.

I assume you’re referring to the U6 tournament stuff? I mean Goku met him like twice lol, that’s hardly a reason to just forgo everything you have learned about someone.

[super michael]

In the episode of Beerus in a costume, Goku was completely clueless. He was clueless about these things:

- Monaka being weak
- Chiaotzu using magic on him
- Taiyoken believing Kuririn shouting Taiyoken was Monaka transforming
- Costume break
- Yamcha spilling the secret, yet he couldn't figure it out
- Unable to sense everyone ki
- Unable to tell their voice apart
- Unable to smell their scent

At least they should have made it that Goku was acting dumb, so he gets his way. But no, Goku has to be dumb.


In DBS Super Hero Goku was a clown. Judging Vegeta and telling him what to do and not to do. Not knowing what meditation was and about using his powers efficiently.


DBS Goku feels like a amateur who forgets what he learns.

[jjgp1112]

I'm glad you got all of that impression out of the story, because I saw absolutely nothing of what you're saying there.

I mean it's was pretty obvious from the very beginning that Goku was supposed to be the only one who "Got" Zeno and had some weird connection with him. Like I'm pretty certain this was even directly stated.

Which would make it easy for Goku to be like "You're worrying too much, I'm just asking for a tournament, he's not gonna do anything like that!" The type of unassuming, instinctive attitude Goku has had from day one.

You keep bringing up Zeno erasing Trunks' timeline but from Gokus perspective that could easily just be an extreme overcorrection to an actual problem. Asking for a Tournament to a guy who seems to like him and wants to have fun is not the type of thing Goku would think would have negative implications.

Time and time again, Gokus reckless decisions have come not from a disregard for the consequences, but his grasp of the situation and everyone else either sees where he's going or they dont. Goku is the epitome of this:



And when he don't got this, he tends to be pretty proactive.

[super michael]

I'm glad you got all of that impression out of the story, because I saw absolutely nothing of what you're saying there.

I mean it's was pretty obvious from the very beginning that Goku was supposed to be the only one who "Got" Zeno and had some weird connection with him. Like I'm pretty certain this was even directly stated.

Which would make it easy for Goku to be like "You're worrying too much, I'm just asking for a tournament, he's not gonna do anything like that!" The type of unassuming, instinctive attitude Goku has had from day one.

You keep bringing up Zeno erasing Trunks' timeline but from Gokus perspective that could easily just be an extreme overcorrection to an actual problem. Asking for a Tournament to a guy who seems to like him and wants to have fun is not the type of thing Goku would think would have negative implications.

Time and time again, Gokus reckless decisions have come not from a disregard for the consequences, but his grasp of the situation and everyone else either sees where he's going or they dont. Goku is the epitome of this:



And when he don't got this, he tends to be pretty proactive.

Goku was completely clueless about Monaka and was dumb in DBS, so it is hard to see that Goku would understand Zeno when he is unpredictable.

Goku even annoyed Zamasu, since he didn't stop being a pest towards him. Goku even pissed of Whis and Beerus for being annoying and even disgusting. Whis even considered not to train Goku.

[TechExpert2021]

I'm glad you got all of that impression out of the story, because I saw absolutely nothing of what you're saying there.

I mean it's was pretty obvious from the very beginning that Goku was supposed to be the only one who "Got" Zeno and had some weird connection with him. Like I'm pretty certain this was even directly stated.

Which would make it easy for Goku to be like "You're worrying too much, I'm just asking for a tournament, he's not gonna do anything like that!" The type of unassuming, instinctive attitude Goku has had from day one.

You keep bringing up Zeno erasing Trunks' timeline but from Gokus perspective that could easily just be an extreme overcorrection to an actual problem. Asking for a Tournament to a guy who seems to like him and wants to have fun is not the type of thing Goku would think would have negative implications.

Time and time again, Gokus reckless decisions have come not from a disregard for the consequences, but his grasp of the situation and everyone else either sees where he's going or they dont. Goku is the epitome of this:



And when he don't got this, he tends to be pretty proactive.

Goku was completely clueless about Monaka and was dumb in DBS, so it is hard to see that Goku would understand Zeno when he is unpredictable.

Goku even annoyed Zamasu, since he didn't stop being a pest towards him. Goku even pissed of Whis and Beerus for being annoying and even disgusting. Whis even considered not to train Goku.

Goku in DBS even forgot to seal Zamasu after using the Mafuba on him.

He also doesn’t even know what a kiss is!