What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Zephyr]

I get that they need to be weakened since they’re too strong for this story, but they could’ve used a different method for that.

Did they really need to be weakened for this story though? The Demon Realm could just as easily have been a new place with strong guys to explore. Like space, time, and the multiverse had been used in previous stories.

[Majin Buu]

The constant recycling of old themes from the series, even though Daima is probably the most unique content we've gotten in almost 10 years, I thought it was unnecessary to reuse a concept from GT (making characters younger), because it just highlights that Toriyama can’t seem to come up with a story where his characters are older.

Eh, I think it's more like he simply didn't want to. I always got the sense that Toriyama just wasn't interested in writing Goku and co as older people. The fact that he slipped in that tidbit about Saiyans aging slowly screams "Goku won't become an old fart for a very long time if I have anything to say about it".

[fadeddreams5]

I get that they need to be weakened since they’re too strong for this story, but they could’ve used a different method for that.

Did they really need to be weakened for this story though? The Demon Realm could just as easily have been a new place with strong guys to explore. Like space, time, and the multiverse had been used in previous stories.

In DBZ, it was stated that Dabura was the absolute strongest being in the demon realm, which... I guess has already been contradicted by the existence of the Tamagami, but I would imagine they were trying to be consistent with that.

But yeah, it's clear Toriyama just wanted an excuse for everyone to be chibi.

[Zephyr]

Did they really need to be weakened for this story though? The Demon Realm could just as easily have been a new place with strong guys to explore. Like space, time, and the multiverse had been used in previous stories.

In DBZ, it was stated that Dabura was the absolute strongest being in the demon realm, which... I guess has already been contradicted by the existence of the Tamagami, but I would imagine they were trying to be consistent with that.

Ah, yeah that's fair. Though, I could still imagine ways to write around that if they really wanted to.

[JulieYBM]

They could have simply explained that they were wrong about Darbra being the strongest being, but I don't really know if it matters at the end of the day. I think it's important to not make antagonist characters static, so I think it would have been more interesting to see the antagonists grow in this arc, if only because with them you can tell a complete story, and with Gokuu and friends Toriyama seems content to never quite have them reach a real change in who they are.

Hopefully we'll see this with Gomah, Arinsu, Degesu and Glorio. It'd mean a radically different approach to writing in the back half of the series, though, so I'm not sure I should bother being optimistic.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As of now it was the poop gag in Daima episode 6.

[nineko]

[fadeddreams5]

As of now it was the poop gag in Daima episode 6.

Would it be better or worse if Goku had his adult body? Lol

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As of now it was the poop gag in Daima episode 6.

Would it be better or worse if Goku had his adult body? Lol

Worse, because as embarrassing as it must have been for Panzy, Glorio and Shin it would be more embarrassing watching an adult bodied character do it.

[JulieYBM]

"Adult needs to take a poop really badly" is probably the most relatable thing ever.

[super michael]

As of now it was the poop gag in Daima episode 6.

Would it be better or worse if Goku had his adult body? Lol

Worse, because as embarrassing as it must have been for Panzy, Glorio and Shin it would be more embarrassing watching an adult bodied character do it.

I still prefer that over DBS Goku wanting to pee, while traveling in space. He wanted to pee infront of Whis.
Then when they do get to Beerus planet, Goku wanted to pee infront of everyone without hiding.

Daima Goku knew it was good to ask for toilet paper and hide, so no one can see him doing his business.

[Kaboom]

Man, remember back in the good ol' days when Episode of Bardock was the worst treatment we ever thought the character would get?

Anyway, I don't know if I ever seriously weighed in on this topic's original theme, but my vote for the lousiest thing to come from modern DB has to go to the nigh-endless parade of lazy-ass palette swaps trying to pose as "new" transformations, which is consistently made even worse by people trying way too hard to pretend that said palette swaps are actually anything special.

In very close second place would be the overall treatment of Bardock, infamously starting with Minus but being picked up and made so much worse by the DBS manga's Granolah arc. I find it hard to believe that I once defended Minus as "not that bad," naively proposing that we simply now had two versions of Bardock's backstory to choose from, and believing that folks could and would simply elect to rightly ignore the shitty new take in favor of the original TV special.

[WittyUsername]

I do find myself wondering these days if Dragon Ball would’ve been better off not getting a revival. I suppose BoG would’ve been made with or without Toriyama’s involvement, and by all accounts, his involvement did greatly improve the film, but maybe that should’ve been the end of it. Just let BoG be a fun little reunion, rather than the beginning of a new era of Dragon Ball.

I will say, I definitely don’t think Minus should’ve ever existed. We didn’t need a manga that retcons Goku’s backstory just so we can learn who his mom is.

[JulieYBM]

I do find myself wondering these days if Dragon Ball would’ve been better off not getting a revival. I suppose BoG would’ve been made with or without Toriyama’s involvement, and by all accounts, his involvement did greatly improve the film, but maybe that should’ve been the end of it. Just let BoG be a fun little reunion, rather than the beginning of a new era of Dragon Ball.

I will say, I definitely don’t think Minus should’ve ever existed. We didn’t need a manga that retcons Goku’s backstory just so we can learn who his mom is.

Why, though? The problem isn't that new stories were produced, the problem is the circumstances under which they were produced: terrible executive planning and meddling, and a series creator who has an overly laxed attitude about what kind of stories can be made.

Like, there's numerous good pieces in the revival era. Perfect? Goodness no, I could point out a million things I would do differently, but the thing isn't to blame the existence of art, it's the blame the people getting in the way of letting creative people be creative.

Also, without the Minus comic we wouldn't have gotten the better retelling in Movie #20, so I wouldn't want to lose that, either.

[WittyUsername]

I do find myself wondering these days if Dragon Ball would’ve been better off not getting a revival. I suppose BoG would’ve been made with or without Toriyama’s involvement, and by all accounts, his involvement did greatly improve the film, but maybe that should’ve been the end of it. Just let BoG be a fun little reunion, rather than the beginning of a new era of Dragon Ball.

I will say, I definitely don’t think Minus should’ve ever existed. We didn’t need a manga that retcons Goku’s backstory just so we can learn who his mom is.

Why, though? The problem isn't that new stories were produced, the problem is the circumstances under which they were produced: terrible executive planning and meddling, and a series creator who has an overly laxed attitude about what kind of stories can be made.

Like, there's numerous good pieces in the revival era. Perfect? Goodness no, I could point out a million things I would do differently, but the thing isn't to blame the existence of art, it's the blame the people getting in the way of letting creative people be creative.

Also, without the Minus comic we wouldn't have gotten the better retelling in Movie #20, so I wouldn't want to lose that, either.

Isn’t that largely the problem though? Everyone involved in the creation of Super was ill-equipped, and the whole thing’s ultimately been a mess that I’d argue has retroactively cheapened the original manga.

As for Minus, I can’t say I agree with the notion that it’s including in the Broly movie was much of an improvement. It still changes Goku’s backstory in a way that I consider detrimental.

[SupremeKai25]

I do find myself wondering these days if Dragon Ball would’ve been better off not getting a revival. I suppose BoG would’ve been made with or without Toriyama’s involvement, and by all accounts, his involvement did greatly improve the film, but maybe that should’ve been the end of it. Just let BoG be a fun little reunion, rather than the beginning of a new era of Dragon Ball.

I will say, I definitely don’t think Minus should’ve ever existed. We didn’t need a manga that retcons Goku’s backstory just so we can learn who his mom is.

This forum, no, actually, all social media pages about Dragon Ball would be even deader if it wasn't for the Revival.

What would you even talk about? Do tell me.

Even all the hate-watchers would have nothing to talk about without Super to attack and tear apart. I don't think the Majin Buu saga GT hate-wagon could have remained relevant for 10 more years.

[JulieYBM]

Isn’t that largely the problem though? Everyone involved in the creation of Super was ill-equipped, and the whole thing’s ultimately been a mess that I’d argue has retroactively cheapened the original manga.

Dragon Ball isn't sacred, and if it was any good it would stand on its own regardless of whether or not other artistic works were created separately and based off of it. To say that the creation of new art somehow cheapens past art is, I'm going to argue, silly. Dragon Ball (1984) still exists, right there. It got adapted into an animated series in 1986 to sell more merchandise, already cheapening Dragon Ball (1984) as a work of art. But you know what? None of that matters. What matter is that creative people were fucked over by executives and let down when trying to create their new projects and add to the already long history of Dragon Ball. That's the problem, not that new projects started in the first place.

[VegettoEX]

What would you even talk about? Do tell me.

This is a wild take -- joyfully youthful and ignorant at best.

There's always new people coming and going, joining along with some of the same old stragglers.

People will always find new things to talk about, and new and old people alike will always continue to talk about the exact same things around in circles and around again like they always do.

We don't need new material to support it, but sure, yes, it does bring a wider group of new people and new discussion angles.

But to say/assume/proclaim/infer that everything would be "dead"...? I've been around long enough to tell you from experience that it's demonstrably not true.

We still haven't even translated all of Akira Toriyama's interviews from the 1980s, for example. There's a wealth of new things to find, discuss, examine, consider, and enjoy. Even independent of that, I still learn new things every day. That fosters love, appreciation, and dedication. If you're unable to find that in your fandom, that's fine, but it means you're also not meant to be in it long-term... which, again, is fine, but plenty of other people will be.

[SupremeKai25]

What would you even talk about? Do tell me.

This is a wild take to me.

There's always new people coming and going, joining along with some of the same old stragglers.

People will always find new things to talk about, and new and old people alike will always continue to talk about the exact same things around in circles and around again like they always do.

We don't need new material to support it, but sure, yes, it does bring a wider group of new people and new discussion angles.

But to say/assume/proclaim/infer that everything would be "dead"...? I've been around long enough to tell you from experience that it's demonstrably not true.

(We still haven't even translated all of Akira Toriyama's interviews from the 1980s, for example. There's a wealth of new things to find, discuss, examine, consider, and enjoy.)

But I didn't say "dead", I said "deader". So, there would be fewer and fewer topics to talk about.

It's not just about introducing new fans. It's also that for myself (and many other people undoubtedly) this Revival was the opportunity to follow an ongoing Dragon Ball series, not one that ended years after it ended.

Countless topics and theories about future episodes, future manga chapters, speculations, that quite clearly couldn't have been possible without the Revival. You can't make meaningful predictions and speculations about a story that ended nearly 30 years ago.

And this is an underrated aspect of the Revival that not enough people talk about. The feeling of watching or reading an ongoing Dragon Ball series, with no one online knowing what will happen. There's nothing better than this to generate online traffic around the franchise.

[WittyUsername]

I do find myself wondering these days if Dragon Ball would’ve been better off not getting a revival. I suppose BoG would’ve been made with or without Toriyama’s involvement, and by all accounts, his involvement did greatly improve the film, but maybe that should’ve been the end of it. Just let BoG be a fun little reunion, rather than the beginning of a new era of Dragon Ball.

I will say, I definitely don’t think Minus should’ve ever existed. We didn’t need a manga that retcons Goku’s backstory just so we can learn who his mom is.

This forum, no, actually, all social media pages about Dragon Ball would be even deader if it wasn't for the Revival.

What would you even talk about? Do tell me.

Even all the hate-watchers would have nothing to talk about without Super to attack and tear apart. I don't think the Majin Buu saga GT hate-wagon could have remained relevant for 10 more years.

Probably not much. I don’t think it really matters if a niche Internet forum would’ve seen less activity though.