The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

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The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:52 pm

We have various sets of Dragon Balls nowadays, with pretty much every series adding some of its own.
They all have in common that gathering them lets the user have one wish or more granted, but the sets and conditions vary.

I'll try gathering here the particularities of the various sets, but feel free to help me correct things that are wrong or missing, I can't possibly get it all right on my own!

EARTH DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball manga and Dragon Ball anime.

Location: scattered over planet Earth, regularly gathered and kept at Bulma's place from a certain point in the story.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: fits the hand right enough to be grabbed.

Name of the dragon: Shenron / Shenlong

Color of the dragon: green.

Size of the dragon: building-sized.

Power extent:

- Can grant from one to three wishes depending on the dragon’s will (which may vary depending on the "customers" he’s facing, such as usual users or scary users).

Power limitations / constraints:

- Cannot grant a same wish twice.
- Cannot bring a person back to life is that person died of natural causes.
- Cannot properly bring someone back with their body intact if a long time has gone by since their death and the body was mutilated.
- Will directly resurrect a person in the afterlife if that person kept their body there.
- Cannot kill people.
- The ability to act on the bodies of people stronger than him - or God - may or may not work depending on cases (he couldn't turn the androids into humans after the battle against Cell but could turn Goku and his friends into kids after the battle against Majin Boo).
- Once used, the Dragon Balls will scatter around the Earth.
- Once used, the Dragon Balls will become inactive for a whole Earth year (unless some wishes have been left aside or unless an extremely rare Namek power has been used to reactivate them before the year is over).
- If their creator dies or ceases to exist by himself, the Dragon Balls become permanently inactive.
- Seems to have some range limitations when it comes to space (he couldn't locate some Super Dragon Balls because he said the Universe was too big).

Versions / updates:

- Version 1.0 : can only grant one wish no matter what.
- Version 2.0 : can grant more than one wish if he feels that way, usually two, sometimes three. This update happened when Dende took over the role of God before the Cell Game.
- Version 3.0 : can extend a warrior’s powers way beyond its limit (including new, unique forms) even if that warrior is way beyond Shenron’s – or the God of Earth’s – power level. This update happened during the Cell Max crisis.

NAMEK DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball manga and Dragon Ball Z anime.

Location: planet Namek, kept by the various village leaders.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: larger than a soccer ball.

Name of the dragon: Polunga / Porunga (meaning « God of dreams »).

Color of the dragon: green.

Size of the dragon: building-sized.

Power extent:

- Can grant three wishes in all cases.
- Can bring a person back to life even if that person was already brought back to life in the past.
- Can bring a person back to life and regenerate their body torn to pieces with a single wish of bringing that person to life.

Power limitations / constraints:

- The user is required to speak the Namek language.
- Once used, the Dragon Balls will scatter around Namek.
- Once used, the Dragon Balls will become inactive for a whole Namek year.
- If their creator dies or ceases to exist by himself, the Dragon Balls become permanently inactive.
- Under certain conditions, may not be able to teleport someone if that person refuses.

Versions/updates:

- Version 1.0 : can only bring one person at a time back to life.
- Version 2.0 : can bring whole populations back to life. This update happened after the crisis with Freeza on Namek, which decimated the whole Namek population.

ULTIMATE DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball GT anime.

Location: planet Earth, kept hidden in God's sanctuary.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: fits the hand just enough to be grabbed.

Name of the dragon: Shenron / Shenlong (sometimes distinguished as Red Shenron / Red Shenlong in guides).

Color of the dragon: red with yellow or blue eyes.

Size of the dragon: mountain-sized.

Power extent:

- Can act on a person’s body regardless of a person’s power level.

Power limitations / constraints:

- Will scatter the Dragon Balls across space when used and doom the planet to be destroyed in one year if they are not gathered again, making their use extremely dangerous.

SUPER DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball Super manga and Dragon Ball Super anime.

Location: across space, part of them in Universe 6 and part of them in Universe 7.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: planet-sized.

Name of the dragon: Super Shenron / Super Shenlong.

Color of the dragon: golden

Size of the dragon: can be bigger than galaxies (requires to go inside to find a lesser-sized copy of itself at its core to enounciate the wishes) but can also appear "city block-sized" when needed, such as in the Tournament of Power.

Power extent:

- Supreme: confirmed to grant any wish.

Power limitations / constraints:

- Gathering the balls requires the ability to travel to another universe and to carry around planet-sized balls.
- Use of the divine language is required, so unless the user is of divine origin themselves, they have to find a deity that agrees with the wish to translate it.
- Will scatter through space in Universes 6 and 7 after a wish has been granted.
- Will become inactive for a year after a wish has been granted.

DARK DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Super Dragon Ball Heroes (OM1 - OM8).

Location: Scattered throughout time, space and dimensions.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: fits the hand right enough to be grabbed.

Name of the dragon: Dark Shenron / Dark Shenlong.

Color of the dragon: Black and a red mane.

Size of the dragon: Seemingly as big as Shenron/Shenlong.

Power extent:

- Can grant one wish, without any known restriction.
- The balls can attach themselves onto a living body, amplifying the individual's power.
- Strong enough to self-defense against powerful warriors, flicking back Future Trunks who tried to interrupt a wish.

Power limitations / constraints:

- Gathering the balls requires being able to travel through space, time and various dimensions.
- Collecting a ball used to amplify a warrior's power requires to be powerful enough to defeat that warrior.
- It is possibly implied that granting a wish can release a vast amount of negative energy, which can have consequences such as creating powerful threatening warriors (Xeno Evil Dragons were created when a wish was granted).
- Can take some time for some wishes, such as refilling someone's energy when there is a great amount to refill.

CEREAL DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball Super manga.

Location: planet Cereal.

Number of artefacts: 2.

Size of the artefacts: about the size of a ping pong ball

Name of the dragon: Toronbo

Color of the dragon: icy (bright blue and white)

Size of the dragon: house-sized.

Power extent:

- Can grant wishes going beyond the usual scope of Dragon Balls, though it might require a great sacrifice on behalf of the user if needed.

Power limitations / constraints:

- Has to go as far as sacrificing one’s life expectancy by a great margin to grant certain wishes.
- Seemingly needs a person's permission when asked to teleport them. (asked Bardack before teleporting him, in contrast to Shenron directly teleporting Broly without consent for example).

DEMON REALM DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Dragon Ball Daima anime.

Location: demon realm, one per demon world, kept at the guardian's challenge arena of each world.

Number of artefacts: 3.

Size of the artefacts: larger than a soccer ball.

Name of the dragon: Porunga / Polunga. (shares the same name and appearance as the dragon from Namek, except for the color)

Color of the dragon: magenta. (similar to the Super Saiyan 4's fur or the Super Saiyan God's hair).

Size of the dragon: building-sized. (shares the same name and appearance than the dragon from Namek, except for the color)

Power extent:

- Can grant one wish, without any known restriction.
- Strong enough to defend himself against powerful threats. He managed to effortlessly flick away Gomah's final form (fueled by the Evil Third Eye) that was rushing at him. In comparison, Shenron was killed by a blast from Demon King Piccolo, a foe whose power level has been surpassed by far by a lot of warriors since then.

Power limitations / constraints:

- Reuniting the balls requires defeating three strong opponents (one for each ball).
- Reuniting the balls requires the ability to travel to all three demon worlds (to challenge the guardian of each realm).
- Namek language is required to call forth the dragon and state the wish.
Last edited by Cold Skin on Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:00 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:53 pm

Doesn't Super Dragon Ball Heroes have another set of DBs as well?
I seem to recall something like that or I'm mixing up things.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by omegalucas » Sat Dec 21, 2024 3:18 pm

Actually Shenlong's main limitation isn't that he can't bring back somebody to life if they have been brought back before, but that he can't grant the same wish twice. So one can deduce he can bring somebody back who has been revived by a different dragon.
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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Dec 21, 2024 5:14 pm

^ Oh, you're right, I forgot it was said that way in some dialogues, I've fixed that point!
dbgtFO wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:53 pm Doesn't Super Dragon Ball Heroes have another set of DBs as well?
I seem to recall something like that or I'm mixing up things.
I don't know anything about that as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:02 pm

dbgtFO wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:53 pm Doesn't Super Dragon Ball Heroes have another set of DBs as well?
I seem to recall something like that or I'm mixing up things.
You are recalling exactly right.

DARK DRAGON BALLS

Original appearance: Super Dragon Ball Heroes (OM1 - OM8).

Location: Scattered throughout time, space and dimension.

Number of artefacts: 7.

Size of the artefacts: fits the hand right enough to be grabbed.

Name of the dragon: Dark Shenlong.

Color of the dragon: Black and a red mane.

Size of the dragon: Unknown, seemingly as big as Shenlong.

Power extent:

- Can grant one wish, seemingly without restrictions. The balls can attach themselves onto a living body, amplifying the individual's power.

Power limitations / constraints:

If any, unknown.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:07 am

^ Thanks, I wouldn't have had the info by myself, I will add this set!

For limitations / constraints, do we know what happens when a wish is granted? Just like for other sets, the fact that they scatter after a wish is a constraint to take into account, if that fact is true for this set. Or if they deactivate for a while too.

I guess among the constraints, there must be the fact that if a warrior has a ball powering them up, collecting the ball requires being strong enough to defeat whoever is currently being powered-up by a ball integrated to their body.

I've placed the sets in order of appearances in the various media, do you know when those Dragon Balls were first introduced to the viewers/readers/players compared to the other sets?
I'm wild-guessing after the Super Dragon Balls but before the Cereal Dragon Balls, but I'll wait for confirmation to place them at the right position!

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by omegalucas » Sun Dec 22, 2024 2:56 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 5:14 pm ^ Oh, you're right, I forgot it was said that way in some dialogues, I've fixed that point!
To be fair while that was the original reason (if I recall correctly it was either said for the first time by God during the 23rd Tournament or Goku when Kuririn and Muten Roshi offer their help to fight Raditz) the series just straight up adopts the "revived by the Dragon Balls once" limitation from the Z portion onwards (my guess is that Toriyama probably forgot the original rule), especially when you consider Bulma's later wishes to look younger/get a butt lift (unless we assume she only did each of those wishes once).

Cold Skin wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:52 pm - Once used, the Dragon Balls will become inactive for a whole Earth year (unless some wishes have been left aside or unless an extremely rare Namek power has been used to reactivate them before the year is over).
Fun fact, while you were probably thinking of Dragon Ball Daima's Neva when writing about "the extremely rare Namek power" that can reactivate the Dragon Balls, it has been done before by God after Goku defeated Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo had wished on the Dragon Balls for his youth and then killed Shenlong. Yet just a few days later when Goku reached God's Palace, God revived Shenlong and as an exception allowed the Dragon Balls to be used again despite a year not having passed, so that Piccolo's victims could be brought back to life. It seems to be used a second time (while not directly mentioned) during the Freeza arc when God and Kaio use them to resurrect everyone killed by Freeza and his men, despite Shenron having brought Goku back to life to fight the Saiyans a mere three-ish months earlier.
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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:30 pm

^ Very good points overall!

I always considered that Bulma was asking for various little things so as to not make the same wish twice, once with the wrinkles, once with the eyelids, once with the butt size, etc.
So far, I think the rule is still valid, but it could be proven wrong if we ever find a wish that has been very specifically asked before, and therefore it would be specifically rewritten here as the "can't be brought back to life twice" rule!

And yeah, I was thinking of Neva with that rule, but now that you mention it, yeah, exceptional reactivations had already occured before, so that little description of possible exceptions is actually even more justified than I thought!

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Peach » Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:53 pm

Some other limitations of Shenron:
- Cannot turn Androids fully human
- Warriors who keep their bodies in the afterlife may be resurrected in Other World and not necessarily where they died on a planet (the same is true for Porunga)
- Will not grant certain wishes if the beneficiary of the wish does not give their consent (E.g. Goku not wanting to be resurrected after being killed by Cell)
- Is unable to bring someone back to life and fully restore their body if their body is in multiple pieces and it's been a prolonged period since they died. However, he can resurrect the pieces of body back to life without fully restoring the body and teleport the pieces of body to the person who requested the wish (E.g. Sorbet's wish to resurrect Frieza).

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:20 pm

^ I think the "cannot turn Androids into humans" is directly mentionned as being part of the "can't act on the bodies of beings more powerful than him / his creator" rule, it's directly said by Shenron when he says he can't do that if I remember well.

This could also be the case for Goku returning (which is not after Cell since Shenron refuses on account that Goku was already brought back before and they don't have time to find another way that Goku contacts them to tell them to stop). I always took it that it was because of the difference in power that Polunga couldn't bring Goku back, otherwise he would have just taken him to Earth without consent. Note that Shenron does teleport Broly without consent later and the difference in power doesn't come into play. It could be that Broly was taken by surprise by the teleportation while Goku could feel what was going to happen and brace himself to resist and protest to Polunga.

Maybe Polunga asks someone before they teleport them while Shenron does it regardless of the target's opinion. It's hard to say.
So we'll have to stay vague on that one and add about Polunga (and not Shenron) "at least on some conditions, can't teleport a person without their consent."

The various resurrection conditions you mentionned seem valid and have been added!
I think keeping the bodies mostly intact was already something important during the Demon King Piccolo arc since they took special care to preserve the bodies for them to be possibly resurrected later on if I remember well! So both this and the Freeza resurrection incident are recapped under the rule that he can't bring back someone to life with their bodies properly if time has passed and the body was mutilated.

Also added to Polunga's power extent that he can bring back a person and regenerate their body that was left in pieces in one single wish.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Xeogran » Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:07 pm

Great thread idea! I'm just going to add that knowledge of the Namekian language is required for the Demon Realm's DBs too, which is why Neva tagged along with the group for the time being.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:17 pm

^ Oh thanks, and nice catch! I'll add it right now!

If you guys want me to add the Dark Dragon Balls for Heroes, with most of the work having been done by Grimlock on that one, don't hesitate to fill in the blanks I mentionned in my post right after his post if you know anything about it!
That way I'll be able to copy-paste the info at the right place!

I mostly just need to know at which point this set was introduced to the audience in comparison to other sets and if we can confirm about any constraints (balls being only possible to collect if you beat the opponent using it as a power-up, balls scattering after a wish, balls being inactive for a while, requirement to travel through dimensions/space-time to collect the balls, etc).

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Grimlock » Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:13 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:07 amFor limitations / constraints, do we know what happens when a wish is granted? Just like for other sets, the fact that they scatter after a wish is a constraint to take into account, if that fact is true for this set. Or if they deactivate for a while too.
We don't know. Guess Heroes forgot to establish it, but yeah, you can take scattering as a constraint (and that they scatter throughout realities make them the hardest set of Dragon Balls to collect). Although, when Mechikabura made a wish for the first time, it is implied that a huge amount of negative energy was released, this is the origin of the Xeno Evil Dragons.
Cold Skin wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:07 amI guess among the constraints, there must be the fact that if a warrior has a ball powering them up, collecting the ball requires being strong enough to defeat whoever is currently being powered-up by a ball integrated to their body.
You are right. It takes the Time Patrollers or the Time Breakers to defeat the ones powered-up by the Dark Dragon Balls.
Cold Skin wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:07 amI've placed the sets in order of appearances in the various media, do you know when those Dragon Balls were first introduced to the viewers/readers/players compared to the other sets?
I'm wild-guessing after the Super Dragon Balls but before the Cereal Dragon Balls, but I'll wait for confirmation to place them at the right position!
For the Dragon Ball Super characters, all the events of Dragon Ball Heroes take place after Dragon Ball Super Broly and supposedly before Moro saga (as it hadn't been animated yet). So you are right once again, after Super Dragon Balls and before Cereal Dragon Balls.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:38 pm

Neat topic!

One thing you could include under size - The Super Dragon Balls have a precisely-defined size, thanks to Lord Zuno: they each have a diameter of 37,196.2204 km. If you were so minded to include estimated measurements, knowing that the Cerealian balls are officially "about the size of ping pong balls" would mean they have a diameter of approximately 40mm (up to you, though, naturally - while specificity is nice, I guess you'd want to guard against giving a false sense of specificity too).

Would an entry about invocations for each set also be useful to include? While the Earth Dragon Balls have pretty generic summoning requirements, most of the sets have quite specific invocations.

Earth: (Usually some variation on) Ide yo, Shenron!
Namek: Takkarapto Popporunga Pupiritto Paro!
Black Star: Ide yo, Shenron!
Super Dragon Balls: Teenakawo iganeteshiso uyurinomika yodei, Chonmage!
Cereal: Takkarapto Tottoronbo Pupiritto Paro!
Demon Realm: Portarat Doddorusie Pupiritto Paro! **tbc - inference based on Daima Trailer**

(I think that's right - Super Shenron in particular is a bit of a challenge)

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Yuji » Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:44 am

"Can't act on the bodies of beings more powerful than him / his creator"

Not necessarily true anymore as of Daima #01. Dragon Balls work on white/black magic rules, so we know they can affect Goku & co if it's a positively worded wish such as youth (we saw this even back with Piccolo Daimao, although at the time we didn't know he was weaker than God), or potential unlock. This works even if the subject is unwilling, so it's about the phrasing and consequence, more-so than the free will and strength of the subject, or intention of the wish maker.

It's negative phrasing such as death or relocation that seems out of bounds. I'd assume something like aging forwards, unless consented to, would be rejected. I'd rephrase that to "can't negatively impact bodies of beings more powerful than the creator."

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Peach » Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:20 pm

Yuji wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:44 am "Can't act on the bodies of beings more powerful than him / his creator"

Not necessarily true anymore as of Daima #01. Dragon Balls work on white/black magic rules, so we know they can affect Goku & co if it's a positively worded wish such as youth (we saw this even back with Piccolo Daimao, although at the time we didn't know he was weaker than God), or potential unlock. This works even if the subject is unwilling, so it's about the phrasing and consequence, more-so than the free will and strength of the subject, or intention of the wish maker.

It's negative phrasing such as death or relocation that seems out of bounds. I'd assume something like aging forwards, unless consented to, would be rejected. I'd rephrase that to "can't negatively impact bodies of beings more powerful than the creator."
Making the Androids humans was a positive wish, but the Dragon didn't do it.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Yuji » Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:36 pm

Peach wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:20 pm
Yuji wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:44 am "Can't act on the bodies of beings more powerful than him / his creator"

Not necessarily true anymore as of Daima #01. Dragon Balls work on white/black magic rules, so we know they can affect Goku & co if it's a positively worded wish such as youth (we saw this even back with Piccolo Daimao, although at the time we didn't know he was weaker than God), or potential unlock. This works even if the subject is unwilling, so it's about the phrasing and consequence, more-so than the free will and strength of the subject, or intention of the wish maker.

It's negative phrasing such as death or relocation that seems out of bounds. I'd assume something like aging forwards, unless consented to, would be rejected. I'd rephrase that to "can't negatively impact bodies of beings more powerful than the creator."
Making the Androids humans was a positive wish, but the Dragon didn't do it.
Why would you say that's a positive wish? You're fundamentally altering someone's biology at the cellular level. They now age, need to eat and drink, are much weaker and get tired. Regardless of the psychological benefit, it's more neutral than good.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:04 pm

The Dark Dragon Balls have been placed with the rest, I just needed to copy-paste the data provided by Grimlock and add the constraints he confirmed, so it was quick!

It's true that there is an ambiguous matter with Shenron's ability to act on the bodies of people more powerful than him.

At the end of the Cell arc, he confirms the problem is the difference of power, saying: "That is impossible, those cyborgs are far beyond my powers. I can't intervene on their bodies." and when Krilin changes the wish: "Yes, that is possible since the difference in power levels does not matter in this case."
During the Saiyan arc, when Oolong wants him to eliminate the Saiyans, he says: "I was created by God. Consequently, I cannot grant wishes that go beyond the divine power."

Then in Daima, Shenron can turn Goku and friends into kids without much of a problem.
This is used as a bypass by the bad guys who say that white magic is the source of those Dragon Balls, meaning there's no killing them with a wish, which sparks the idea to make them young.
Despite the problems it could bring to someone's life (including being vulnerable enough to be killed easily in some cases like the babies), Shenron doesn't seem to mind about morality in this case and does it easily.

Meanwhile, there's also the question of white magic making the Dragon Balls probably unable to kill: do they mention this as a thing being specific to the Earth Dragon Balls or something specific to Dragon Balls in general? (the Demon Realm's Dragon Balls were also created by a Namek after all, so were they really created with more evil magic than the ones on Earth after all? Or is it because when God created them on Earth, he had completely cast away any trace of evil in his heart - which was all condensed externally into the copy of him that would be known as Demon King Piccolo?)

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Peach » Thu Dec 26, 2024 7:40 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:04 pm The Dark Dragon Balls have been placed with the rest, I just needed to copy-paste the data provided by Grimlock and add the constraints he confirmed, so it was quick!

It's true that there is an ambiguous matter with Shenron's ability to act on the bodies of people more powerful than him.

At the end of the Cell arc, he confirms the problem is the difference of power, saying: "That is impossible, those cyborgs are far beyond my powers. I can't intervene on their bodies." and when Krilin changes the wish: "Yes, that is possible since the difference in power levels does not matter in this case."
During the Saiyan arc, when Oolong wants him to eliminate the Saiyans, he says: "I was created by God. Consequently, I cannot grant wishes that go beyond the divine power."

Then in Daima, Shenron can turn Goku and friends into kids without much of a problem.
This is used as a bypass by the bad guys who say that white magic is the source of those Dragon Balls, meaning there's no killing them with a wish, which sparks the idea to make them young.
Despite the problems it could bring to someone's life (including being vulnerable enough to be killed easily in some cases like the babies), Shenron doesn't seem to mind about morality in this case and does it easily.

Meanwhile, there's also the question of white magic making the Dragon Balls probably unable to kill: do they mention this as a thing being specific to the Earth Dragon Balls or something specific to Dragon Balls in general? (the Demon Realm's Dragon Balls were also created by a Namek after all, so were they really created with more evil magic than the ones on Earth after all? Or is it because when God created them on Earth, he had completely cast away any trace of evil in his heart - which was all condensed externally into the copy of him that would be known as Demon King Piccolo?)
I think Shenron responded something to the effect of "That wish is beyond my powers" when Krillin asked the Androids to be turned into human. I always interpreted it as the ability to grant that wish is beyond his power or capabilities.

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Re: The various sets of Dragon Balls at this point

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:32 am

^ It's about phrased like that for the first wish, yeah. It could be ambiguous enough on its own, but just after with the revised wish, he does specify something that straight up means "okay, NOW I can do this because this time, contrary to what you just asked before, the difference of power levels between me and them doesn't matter". The second phrasing makes it pretty obvious that the problem of the first wish was the difference in power level.

To sort this out without false interpretation, I'll just add it as it is shown, specifying the most recent instances of being able or being unable to act on bodies.
I'll just say how it is to our eyes, as we don't necessarily have the definitive answers ourselves, but we could still see and recap what happened: "the ability to act on the bodies of people stronger than him - or God - may or may not work depending on cases (couldn't turn the androids humans after the battle against Cell but could turn Goku and his friends into kids after the battle against Majin Boo)".

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