Vegeta has no place in the story anymore

[Yuji]

I've been wrestling with this thought for a while now, but it became increasingly clear to me after the controversy surrounding Daima's recent episode and SS3 Vegeta's lack of a meaningful arc or thematic depth. Vegeta's character arc effectively concluded in the Buu arc. Rather than fading into the background alongside much of the original cast to make room for new characters, which is something Dragon Ball has done historically (e.g., the humans, Piccolo, and Gohan until Super Hero), he has instead been elevated to the role of de facto deuteragonist. This is a position he never truly held in the original series, where his relevance and strength fluctuated. While I did enjoy seeing Goku and Vegeta train and bicker as equals under Whis, I'm not sure keeping Vegeta around this long has been worth it.

The decision to include Vegeta in Daima doesn’t feel particularly meaningful. Goku, Shin, Bulma, and Piccolo all have either practical roles or thematic ties to the Demon Realm. Vegeta, on the other hand, feels out of place, as if his inclusion was based solely on his status as Goku's rival. Goku is the fighter, Bulma the mechanic, Shin the knowledgeable assistant, and Piccolo the lore-significant backup fighter. Do we need backup fighter #3? Rather than being involved because of his inherent qualities as a character, it seems he was added for his iconicity.

In Super, Vegeta doesn’t really evolve. We see more of his heroic, family-oriented side, but how many times do we need to revisit the same territory? While his arcs in the Moro and Granolah sagas are interesting enough to me, revisiting the theme of confronting his past sins feels like a redo of the Buu arc, albeit admittedly in a different, more personal context.

At this point, I don’t think there’s much left to explore with Vegeta in the prominent role he continues to occupy. Goku’s character, for all its repetitive beats, at least drives the narrative and influences those around him. In contrast, Vegeta is largely reactive, shaped by his relationship with Goku—a dynamic that should logically diminish over time, especially post-Boo. Again, he should have gone the way of Piccolo and Tenshinhan, and made way for Hit or Jiren or whoever else.

Unfortunately, I find myself rolling my eyes at this point whenever Vegeta is front and center in promotional material for a new Dragon Ball story, because I know almost assuredly he is doing absolutely nothing meaningful. As much as Trunks and 17 returning, as well as Superhero, were criticized for being stuck in the past, at least they were their stories through and through. They changed as characters, they had stories that revolved around their development and unique circumstances. Vegeta inserts himself into other characters' stories and sometimes shows off a cool fight scene or dramatically monologues about his family or Kakarot.

[Maxum599]

I've been wrestling with this thought for a while now, but it became increasingly clear to me after the controversy surrounding Daima's recent episode and SS3 Vegeta's lack of a meaningful arc or thematic depth. Vegeta's character arc effectively concluded in the Buu arc. Rather than fading into the background alongside much of the original cast to make room for new characters, which is something Dragon Ball has done historically (e.g., the humans, Piccolo, and Gohan until Super Hero), he has instead been elevated to the role of de facto deuteragonist. This is a position he never truly held in the original series, where his relevance and strength fluctuated. While I did enjoy seeing Goku and Vegeta train and bicker as equals under Whis, I'm not sure keeping Vegeta around this long has been worth it.

The decision to include Vegeta in Daima doesn’t feel particularly meaningful. Goku, Shin, Bulma, and Piccolo all have either practical roles or thematic ties to the Demon Realm. Vegeta, on the other hand, feels out of place, as if his inclusion was based solely on his status as Goku's rival. Goku is the fighter, Bulma the mechanic, Shin the knowledgeable assistant, and Piccolo the lore-significant backup fighter. Do we need backup fighter #3? Rather than being involved because of his inherent qualities as a character, it seems he was added for his iconicity.

In Super, Vegeta doesn’t really evolve. We see more of his heroic, family-oriented side, but how many times do we need to revisit the same territory? While his arcs in the Moro and Granolah sagas are interesting enough to me, revisiting the theme of confronting his past sins feels like a redo of the Buu arc, albeit admittedly in a different, more personal context.

At this point, I don’t think there’s much left to explore with Vegeta in the prominent role he continues to occupy. Goku’s character, for all its repetitive beats, at least drives the narrative and influences those around him. In contrast, Vegeta is largely reactive, shaped by his relationship with Goku—a dynamic that should logically diminish over time, especially post-Boo. Again, he should have gone the way of Piccolo and Tenshinhan, and made way for Hit or Jiren or whoever else.

Unfortunately, I find myself rolling my eyes at this point whenever Vegeta is front and center in promotional material for a new Dragon Ball story, because I know almost assuredly he is doing absolutely nothing meaningful. As much as Trunks and 17 returning, as well as Superhero, were criticized for being stuck in the past, at least they were their stories through and through. They changed as characters, they had stories that revolved around their development and unique circumstances. Vegeta inserts himself into other characters' stories and sometimes shows off a cool fight scene or dramatically monologues about his family or Kakarot.

Calling you an idiot would be an insult to stupid people. Vegeta has been constantly improving as a warrior while dealing with his own past and some personal Saiyan-related issues.You can take your opinion and shove it up your ass.
And for the Vegeta vs Goku dynamic post-Buu

[VegettoEX]

Calling you an idiot would be an insult to stupid people.

What exactly leads you to believe this is an appropriate way to talk to people? Hoping this is just the result of an unfortunate bad day/circumstances, and this isn't reflective of how you normally chat.

That said, I would recommend you review the community guidelines, which you agreed to (twice) prior to registration, before making further posts. Account strikes and/or an account ban isn't something to strive for here!

[GokuHater]

I both agree and disagree.

I agree that in Super, Vegeta recieved a role of a sidekick, which he really wasn't before. And for it to work, they thought they have to regress his character a little. That was a big miss according to me. Watching Vegeta constantly want to keep up, or constantly not want to fuse, or constantly be moody did get really stale really fast.
We have to remember in Saiyan Saga he was a villain, in Namek an antagonist and later forced ally. In Cell he was a frustrating antihero, in Buu a wildcard and at last an ally.
While he's role in Super as Goku's buddy and rival is new, it can work very well but I also think it didn't reach it's potential.

But having said that, I totally disagree, Vegeta can't have an actual new character arc or there is nothing to do with him. Just because the writers are fixated on a tried formula, doesn't mean he hasn't places to go. On the top of my head, here are some character arcs we could make Vegeta go through.

1. Past actions and guilt - so basically what they started in the Moro arc. You said Buy arc was about his sins. For me Buu arc was more about his illusion of wanting to go back to the old ways with dealing with his actions right then.

We could see his guilt and double guessing himself about everything he's done and why he did it.
We see him actually interacting with Namekians and Cereals. Let's push it further. Let him meet with many species he hurt as an evil Saiyan. Let him meet with the families of members of Frieza force he killed. Let him meet with fricking Yajirobe, who could still be afraid of him from they days of Saiyan Saga.
Give him something to ponder about and not only him THINKING about this but also meeting people, seeing desolated planets etc. I think we all are underestimating how long he have lived a life of slave. That was basically more than half off his life.

2. Letting go of guilt - something like they did in Granolah arc. It can off course be intertwined with the former but have him see that drowning in guilt forever is not the way. That he's a different man now and as long as he doesn't lose his way, he may be respected, loved, admired and most of all forgiven.
Let him learn that maybe while he was feeling guilt by his past actions, cosmos has a natural equilibrium where something must die for something to be born. Like the Destroyer Gods who just do they're work.
Ultra Ego was a sign of genius in that way that it showed Vegeta that maybe pure destruction is what makes his potential explode.
We can go show him that destruction and wanting to win before everything else is in no way wrong if theres no cruelty going beside it.

3. Relationship with Gohan - Instead of Vegeta being non stop focused on beating Goku, maybe turn his attention towards Gohan more?
Gohan is practically Vegeta's opposite.
Gohan is a family man and a born father and older brother while Vegeta is a lone wolf and had to actually learn to be a father.
Gohan is very emotional, while Vegeta surprased his emotions for the whole life.
Gohan had a good father (!), while Vegeta practically may had a very strict childhood.
Gohan hates violence while Vegeta always thrived in it.

Have them interact and see each other strengths and weaknesses. Maybe Vegeta sees something in Gohan's lifestyle he misses? Maybe he also wants to be a better husband and father but is not able to for some reason?

4. His relationship with this children - could be tied to the previous one but maybe lets see his interactions with Trunks and Bra more?
The man cares about his daughter a lot more than he cared for his son when Trunks was Bra's age. Maybe he feels bad for it?
He had to learn from the basics what is means to be a father. He may still be struggling, still learning.

Maybe he still has flashbacks from his own childhood and his father? Let's explore that.


5. Planet Sadala - Quite self explanatory :p

And for the Vegeta vs Goku dynamic post-Buu https://i.redd.it/5npjnjw455bd1.jpeg

Btw you do realize that is a retconned panel, don't you?

[Kaboom]

That's just what happens when you keep trying to squish long-form midquel stories into a peaceful time-gap period 99% of the way through the original story when everyone's personal character arcs were already pretty much complete.

That said, Vegeta's character and "place" is yet another thing GT handled better than the modern rubbish.

[Grimlock]

Pretty sure this goes to everyone, really. With the exception of Goku and his "missing piece" specifically (i.e. remembering his origins/heritage), there's nothing else you can do with the current cast altogether (and honestly, I'm not sure anymore if Goku remembering his father and whatnot will lead to something... Well, we can only wait).

Since Toriyama barely developed Uub, Goten, Trunks and the other youngsters, now more than ever is the optimal time for them to take over, symbolizing a new era, penned by new people.

[JulieYBM]

I pretty much agree. Vegeta basically just feels like he's sticking around because popularity and less because somebody has a fun story to tell with him. I do think actually having him address his newfound guilt for his actions on Namek during the Moro arc was a good idea, but I don't know how well it landed for me, nor do I really feel like that confrontation really changed Vegeta all that much in succeeding stories. I'd like to see all the characters grow and change, but Dragon Ball is such a conservative property that my expectations are pretty low, even if I still want to hold it to some level of standard.

[Koitsukai]

Does Bulma have any place in the story? so far, we are 12 episodes in and she hasn't proved her worth yet. They had her fix a spaceship only for the DaimaUber to come pick them up, rendering all of her work useless.

I also don't see why Piccolo would be best suited to come along, he is way weaker than Vegeta. He would've lost again T-2 even before Neva powered him up.
In fact, with Piccolo being so not-namekian in so many ways, his worth is yet to be proven.

It's a story about beating people up for reasons, now in the Daimakai to rescue god, and Vegeta beats people up better than everybody sans Goku and Gohan (who for who knows why has been set aside like he isn't even real).

While everything has already been said and done about these characters, and there's not much to do with them anymore in terms of growth or development, Geet's participation in this makes sense. And DBS has already explored in more detail his coming to terms with his former way of life, and also his relationship with Goku, so there's no need for Daima to have the character depths of The Wire for this silly little story to work.

[JulieYBM]

so there's no need for Daima to have the character depths of The Wire for this silly little story to work.

That would make it funnier, though.

[Maxum599]

Btw you do realize that is a retconned panel, don't you?

It's retconned in the sense that it doesn't take the events of Super into account, because it was made way before Super was thought of, but not in the sense of Vegeta still having a rivalry with Goku.

[LightBing]

Then who does of the recurring characters? Because Vegeta is exactly the same as every other "closed" character.
Except that by default, he has more connections to the characters and the Universe at large to make for better stories, for example the Broly movie.

Speaking of Daima only, since it's fresh.
Vegeta is exactly the same as all the characters you described, token characters. Like Piccolo and Bulma he's been mostly absent. He only recently was in the spotlight and it was shared with the antagonist.
Feels like the audience distorted his transformation to be more relevant than it actually is.

Now in regards to all characters, their progression is limited by all stories being shoved in this limbo that is the lost decade.

This is the problem of modern Dragon Ball, everything everyone does has no consequences or continuity. Which is why I think Daima is the best we can get, a fun side story with lateral moves and lore.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Daima should be focusing on the new characters, anyway. They can undergo change and have arcs. Gomah, Degesu and Arinsu were the most interesting part of the first two episodes for this very reason.

[TheSaiyanGod]

If anything, didn't the Moro and Granolah arcs prove the exact opposite?

I've seen recurring threads on this site discuss at length Vegeta's "problematic" redemption and how he's seemingly never held accountable for his actions (and the character's apparent lack of guilt for his crimes). And then the last few arcs of the Super manga deal with exactly this but I hardly see people bringing it up, and they just discuss the same things over and over. So sometimes it's hard to understand what exactly people expect from these characters (or from the writers, more precisely)

These arcs were actually probably the best Vegeta-related material since the original manga (at least, in terms of development and an actual arc for the character), regardless of how people feel about the execution of these stories as a whole. Wouldn't that be something worth it already?

And I guess I'm echoing things other users have said, but couldn't the same thing be said for most of the main cast as well? Despite Piccolo's thematic importance in Daima, what role has he played other than serving as the reason for lore dumps to occur? Perhaps the issue isn't the character (just for the record, I think Daima is fine overall, and the story is ongoing, so we don't know exactly the roles that each character can still play until the end)

I personally think that if the writers want to delve deeper into the character, they can actually create interesting stories, even for a cast with as many stories under their belts as the characters in Dragon Ball. Wasn't Super Hero able to bring an interesting story to Piccolo, a character who has been relegated to the background of the cast for decades? A story was created around him as the main character, and I would say the end result was good.

In interviews, Toyotaro has talked about the difference between Vegeta and Goku, and how he feels he can create nuanced stories around Vegeta due to the baggage he carries. And if you look at Vegeta's development throughout Super, I would say that there is definitely good stuff to be done with the character (even if that development was inconsistent or sloppy overall). But I also think the same about other characters in the cast, even the ones that people think are already "finished". So I guess I can't say I fully agree with the OP

[Chuquita]

I would've liked to have seen where a hypothetical Black Freeza arc could've gone with Vegeta and Goku if Toriyama hadn't died. You could conceivably bring the tension and drama back with that if you have Freeza really get creative and personal about it (have Freeza no-nonsense stealth kill some of the cast, then
temporarily take out either Goku or Vegeta by having Freeza take one of the two hostage with one of those ki limiters like Brolli had. Whichever one is left behind has to track Freeza down across outer space to rescue the other with the help of whoever else among their family and friends are left and eventually wish everyone else back). So like the original Freeza arc and elements of DBSBrolli with a little of that one Brolli stage show mixed in, but different enough to distinguish it.

But that's just a pipe dream of mine.

Closer to the main topic-- has Vegeta outlived his place in the story? Probably, but I enjoy Vegeta's interactions with Goku too much to want him to go wander off into retirement like Tenshinhan. It's a biased answer, but that's how I feel.

[Yuji]

If anything, didn't the Moro and Granolah arcs prove the exact opposite?

I don't think it's a question of whether or not something interesting can be written with Vegeta, it's whether or not it's being done. Like you said, and I mentioned originally, the Moro and Granolah arcs are the only times something somewhat interesting and new was done with the character in the entire revival. That's 2 arcs out of now 10 where he has something to do beyond interacting with Goku, the villain, and another character or two. And those two arcs are specifically the ones Toyotaro had greater input in, showcasing Toriyama's lack of interest in writing something new for Vegeta. Sure Piccolo had to wait until Superhero to get a well written story, but he was also on the bench for 80% of the revival, he wasn't one of the main heroes taking up 50% of the screen time despite being as bland as a board.

I'd be all for Vegeta just being around for the interaction if the character was actually placed in interesting dynamics. But he just interacts with Goku, Beerus, Bulma, Trunks, and Gohan sometimes, those are all beat up character dynamics, we know what these characters think about each other and how they'd react in different situations. It was endearing when he teamed up with Roshi in the ToP anime, I'd like to see more unorthodox dynamics like that, with characters he barely interacts with. If the character won't evolve any further, then at least showcase his new personality in new, unique situations, rather than repeating the same "my family"/"I'll defeat Kakarot" trite for the nth time.

[Ronin]

I agree, but I also think this is a critique that's better suited for Super. Super was a longer story with multiple arcs and Daima is a mini series. I know that Daima is also an avenue where you could explore character development just like Super was (and I think Daima would be even better if it did that), but I'm also okay with a lack of character development in shorter stories. Besides, we haven't seen Vegeta all that much anyway. We're over halfway through and we're only just now getting a major fight with Vegeta in it and there have been several episodes that he wasn't in at all or was barely in. Plus, I still like Vegeta being around for his character interactions; at least in shorter stories. I'm liking Daima right now for the lore, the story, the action and the character interactions. While character development could make it better, I don't think you have to have it for something to be good since character development is only one aspect of storytelling and it isn't absolutely necessary to tell a good story.

[AliTheZombie13]

Vegeta is simply another symptom of Toriyama forgetting or shoving aside his own characters.
Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Piccolo all went through the same thing, Vegeta was simply the one that stuck in the end.
Giving Goku a rival is not a bad idea per se, the bad idea is making the rival an empty husk whose characterization is just "I'mma beat you, Kakarot!"

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I think this was a bigger issue in Super than Daima. Vegeta up to this point in Daima was mostly used as the butt of the ongoing joke that he was always getting blocked from contributing to the A plot with Goku. (Which I thought was going to be his full role in the story, that he doesn't get to contribute until the very last episode.)
That said If I had my power (and I don't/never will) and was a hypothetical editor on Super I would've liked to have seen that show take a similar approach to Daima. The first opening to Super showed Goku and Vegeta walking through what looked like a portal to another dimension. So make each arc about Goku, through whatever plot contrivance, traveling to one of the 12 universes with a different supporting cast member or 2 per arc until it all culminates in the Tournament of Power. That way each major player could get a story that gives them their mojo back, or teaches them a new thing about themselves so everyone gets one last chance to show a side of the character that we've never seen before their call to action comes.
This would negate Vegeta getting overused post BoG since he would only really be necessary for the Trunks/Goku Black arc in terms of character development. Of course this is just a hypothetical, and this idea might not have worked in practice without Super being a much longer show.

[Basaku]

I would've liked to have seen where a hypothetical Black Freeza arc could've gone with Vegeta and Goku if Toriyama hadn't died.

I mean, regardless if it happens next year or takes another 5, there's zero doubt in my mind it will happen and that the main points of that arc were already planned prior to Toriyama's passing. And in this instance (and as a finalen of the whole Super era and Toriyama-era) I guess having Goku&Vegeta and the rest of the old cast is the way to go due to their history with Freeza and throughout the entire series.

I absolutely do agree tho that otherwise, most of the old cast has become completly stale and if any new content happens post-EOZ in a more distatnt future then it should be a next gen of characters taking over (perhaps with Goku&Vegeta taking on a new kind of eldery mentor roles). GT already proved more than enough that Goku&Vegeta in their current incarnations are a dead end for storytelling post-EOZ

Goten, Trunks, Pan, Bra, Uub, Maroon along with completly brand characters is where the fresh narrative lies within.

[Bloodthroe]

I'm sure Toriyama's editors and publishers were aware Vegeta sells a lot of toys. Maybe almost as much as Goku. So, they likely forced Toriyama to keep Vegeta in the forefront as a rival to Goku. If Goku gets a new form, Vegeta has to also. Maybe it doesn't serve the story Toriyama wanted to tell, but it does make the owners of the property a lot of money.

Personally, I was happy with Vegeta's character arc during the Buu saga and thought it should have ended there. This Vegeta, as a loving family man, routine in DBS doesn't quite fit him, imo. Although, it is somewhat funny.