What limits Tenshinhan?

[Yuji]

Tenshinhan's lack of strength has always been a critique fans have thrown at the series. Obviously out-of-universe, nobody is interested in writing for Tenshinhan, but I'm interested in finding an in-universe reason as to why he's fallen to the wayside, because mostly every other character has a reason to.

Gohan, Kuririn, Roshi, Yamcha and plenty of other characters' main flaw is their lack of commitment to martial arts and regular training
Vegeta's main flaws were his overconfidence and overtraining.

I guess you could compare Tenshinhan to Piccolo's stagnancy pre-Superhero, who was also failing to keep up, but I've always interpreted Piccolo's training regiment as maintenance whereas Tenshinhan actively still speaks of his rivalry with Goku and seems to train toward getting stronger. And Tenshinhan, at least on the surface, seems devoid of the lack of commitment and/or overconfidence that held the other characters back.

So how come he's still this weak? Could it be he doesn't actually train as hard as he claims? Or is it that he's the only character in the series that embodies the belief hard work truly cannot surpass the elite?

[Zephyr]

He simply couldn't keep up, despite his commitment. Sometimes you try so hard and get so far, and in the end it doesn't even matter.

As of the Cell arc, he had trained with Kaio, Goku's own most recent mentor, and (as far as we can tell) didn't even learn the Kaio-ken or the Genki Dama. Speaking broadly, someone who doesn't follow Goku's path to the extent that they're logistically capable of (ie: a human doing every non-Saiyan-exclusive cheat they can) is more likely to be left in the dust. Speaking more specifically, the Kaio-ken would have at least provided a way to try and keep up with Super Saiyan. Sure it's a risky move, but risky moves are up Mr. Kikoho's alley. I think lacking this move is probably the biggest thing in-universe holding him back. Imagine how weird it might get if combined with his ability to split into multiple people.

But yeah, he doesn't know it. Why doesn't he know it? It's not like Piccolo where he was only at Kaio's a short while. Did he not learn it because it's such a difficult technique that only Goku is truly skilled enough to have figured it out? I guess that would track with Goku's general trajectory of being so good at this shit that he leaves every rival in the dust eventually. It's lonely at the top. Or did he not learn it because Kaio was too petty to give anyone else the opportunity to learn those techniques? That'd be kinda funny, I guess.

[Bloodthroe]

He, along with the humans, must have peaked.

The saiyans have an advantage over everyone, because they can keep unlocking new transformations.

[Jack Bz]

He doesn't go in the rosat during the Cell arc because he thinks there's no point. I think when super saiyans start being a regular thing he stops trying to push himself to his absolute limit.

[nineko]

At one point he actually was the strongest human on Earth, I often wonder who could have been the strongest if he and Yamcha went to Namek with the others, and got the boost from Saichourou like Kuririn did. There's a videogame where you can do that, though I don't remember their power levels (and I can't check because my computer died).

[SonTao]

Biology. Unfortunately, Saiyans and Namekians have too many crazy power boosts. Oozaru, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2-4, not even COUNTING God or Blue. Goku had to get hit with his own spirit bomb to even unlock U.I. So 90% of his "strength" comes from forms. Same for Vegeta. Piccolo and Tenshinhan both have an INSANE level of technique and a high base power--Piccolo only got back up there because he's got a flashy new form from Super Hero. If he didn't have Orange or Potential Unleashed, he'd be back there with Tien.

So, in actuality, Tenshinhan is only behind because he doesn't have a magic multiplier. His work ethic is good, just as good as the Saiyans and Piccolo. Maybe if he trained with Beerus he'd have a leg up. But Beerus was only interested in Goku because of the God forms, and he took Vegeta because he thought Vegeta would be a decent G.O.D candidate. Gohan is as strong as he is because he has Saiyan biology and Potential Unleashed.

TL;DR racial transformations, zenkaiv boosts, and special treatment have Tenshinhan outclassed. If Goku didn't have zenkais or transformations, he'd be around Tenshinhan's level anywho. Tien is peak, unaltered human drive--no forms, no gods beyond North Kai.

[JulieYBM]

Until he accepts his bisexual thirst for Yamcha, Piccolo, and Vegeta, Tenshinhan will forever be unable to unlock the full, unrestrained power of his ki.

(The real answer is that nobody told Toriyama to make Tenshinhan stronger and keep him relevant to whatever plot there was afoot now).

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tenshinhan actively still speaks of his rivalry with Goku and seems to train toward getting stronger.

Does he? I always thought he pretty much gave up after the Cell Saga. When he sees SSJ Goku he admits that the gap has grown too big and that he'll never catch up, even passing on a trip to the Rosat. After that he still trains, but Toriyama said he's mostly a farmer and DBS shows him as a teacher.

Interesting that people in this thread talk about what limits Tenshinhan in relation to Goku (The reasons are obvious), but the question should really be: What limits Tenshinhan in relation to Kuririn? Is the potential unlock so good that, even after abandoning arts completely, Kuririn still has a good lead over the guy who's Goku's human counterpart?

[Makaioshin]

Could it be he doesn't actually train as hard as he claims? Or is it that he's the only character in the series that embodies the belief hard work truly cannot surpass the elite?

This message itself is undone in the same arc it is brought up since Gohan, who lacks this kind of motivation, is one of the most powerful fighters thanks to race science.

And for better or worse, that is where Tenshinhan and the rest hit their limits as the story started to focus more on the Saiyans and their propensity towards fighting. It is less evident in Super where you have all these other guys who are quite powerful show up without much being said about their background but it is still a key part of the story overall even there.

With training, he seems to have resolved to take a different approach. That goes back to his Kaio training where talked about wanting to master the essentials without following the same path as Goku. While there isn't too much focus on his character after, we see with the Shin Kikoho that he is able to leverage his techniques and push them to the limit to take on more powerful opponents. DBO also used that as the basis for his martial arts school so it kind of connects on that level.

Interesting that people in this thread talk about what limits Tenshinhan in relation to Goku (The reasons are obvious), but the question should really be: What limits Tenshinhan in relation to Kuririn?

That is a different can of worms. It depends on how seriously you want to take on the words of an uncle trying to reassure his niece. Or how much Kuririn fell off after years of neglecting his training at various points.

[Zephyr]

With training, he seems to have resolved to take a different approach. That goes back to his Kaio training where talked about wanting to master the essentials without following the same path as Goku.

Abandoning Goku's path is the doom of every rival.

[LightBing]

It's because he's human.

Humans could always keep up with Goku by the following arc. They can't keep up with SSJ.
Like various people already said, the character acknowledged his limitations in the Cell Arc.

Interesting that people in this thread talk about what limits Tenshinhan in relation to Goku (The reasons are obvious), but the question should really be: What limits Tenshinhan in relation to Kuririn? Is the potential unlock so good that, even after abandoning arts completely, Kuririn still has a good lead over the guy who's Goku's human counterpart?

The humans aren't really doing any special training.
If Kuririn was ahead by the Androids, there's nothing Tenshinhan has done to close the gap.
In fact, if we look at training partners, Kuririn should have the advantage since it's sparring partner is #18 whilst Chiaotzu is the best Tenshinhan can get.
Logically the gap might have increased by the time Boo appears.

[Almighty Majin]

He did not learn Kaioken.
He did not train in higher than 10x gravity environments.
He did not train on Yardrat.
He did not train in the RoSaT.
He did not get any potential unlocked (either by Guru or Old Kai or even Ultra Divine Water).
He did not do god training.

There is a lot that Tien and the other Earthlings could have done to keep themselves relevant in the fights and even be somewhat relative to the Saiyans. They just simply did not put in the effort to do so. Obviously this is because they were written to not catch up anymore, but they really do have the resources for it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That is a different can of worms. It depends on how seriously you want to take on the words of an uncle trying to reassure his niece. Or how much Kuririn fell off after years of neglecting his training at various points.

In the Boo Saga it seemed like Kuririn would still train occasionally, but in DBS he just gave up entirely (other than anime-only pre-ToP stuff).

The humans aren't really doing any special training.
If Kuririn was ahead by the Androids, there's nothing Tenshinhan has done to close the gap.
In fact, if we look at training partners, Kuririn should have the advantage since it's sparring partner is #18 whilst Chiaotzu is the best Tenshinhan can get.
Logically the gap might have increased by the time Boo appears.

Nah the gap definitely stayed the same or diminished a tiny bit. Kuririn wasn't training at all after he married 18. But as you said, Tenshinhan must have stagnated. He's also past his physical prime.

[LightBing]

Nah the gap definitely stayed the same or diminished a tiny bit. Kuririn wasn't training at all after he married 18. But as you said, Tenshinhan must have stagnated. He's also past his physical prime.

You're probably right. He spared with her for the tournament, that's what I was remembering.
At least he didn't got weaker since it isn't mentioned like it was for Gohan.

[BernardoCairo]

I think it's all about the training method. He's been training alone and in the same way for many years. No Yardrat, no God training, no power unlocking... Tenshinhan has been training in the same way since the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. He got very far with just that. Very far indeed.

[super michael]

The reason why Tenshinhan was powerful was because he did impressive training, before he trained with other strong fighters and trained with other masters. He traveled with the Z fighters and trained with Karin and then later on trained with Kami Lookout with Kami.
The last time Tenshinhan trained hard and with a master was with Kaio in the Namek Saga.

After the Namek Saga Tenshinhan no longer wanted to train with others stronger than him. He only wanted to train with Chiaotzu and no on else.
He even refused to train in the ROSAT, even though there was plenty of time train in there.

That is the reason why Tenshinhan fell behind, since the others such as Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Future Trunks leveled up their training style.

I think it's all about the training method. He's been training alone and in the same way for many years. No Yardrat, no God training, no power unlocking... Tenshinhan has been training in the same way since the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. He got very far with just that. Very far indeed.

Exactly it all depends on their training method.

Look at Trunks an example, he is weak since he is only allowed to train with Pilaf or Goten. We know Goten is normally not allowed to train.

[MasenkoHA]

I think he just hit his peak and his peak as an earthling can't keep up with Super Namekians and Super Saiyans *shrug*

The only point of contention is I guess officially Kuririn is the stronger of the two even though the last time we saw any point of comparison (the Saiyan arc) Tenshinhan was stronger. So idk did The Grand Elder's unlocking Kuririn's hidden potential create a gap that Tenshinhan could never reach. Did Toriyama just forget Tenshinhan was supposed to be stronger and way more committed to martial arts than Kuririn?

[super michael]

I doubt Tenshinhan has reached his peak and limit, he is limiting himself by not training hard. As long as he refuse to do special training or train with strong partner, he won't progress a lot.

Whis even mentions to Vegeta that with how he trains, he won't get very far. Then Vegeta asked Whis to train him. Thanks to his training with Whis, he surpassed every Boo and Vegito in DBZ.

Trunks is only allowed to train with Pilaf, that is the reason why he is weak. Trunks hasn't reached his limit yet.



It has everything to do with how they train and were they train. It also has to do with whom they train with.

[ATA]

Did Toriyama just forget Tenshinhan was supposed to be stronger and way more committed to martial arts than Kuririn?

Honestly, once the Taiyoken(Solar Flare) became more of Krillin's attack than Tien it was wraps for Tien.

In-Universe:
18 keeps Krillin in shape. Chazou can only help TIen so much.

[Alruneia]

In-universe, I guess he's just been training wrong, whatever he's been doing ever since Namek just hasn't been giving him good results. Kinda like with Future Gohan versus Present Gohan, it's not about training a lot, it's about training right. It's hard to not go into out-of-universe reasons for this one, honestly, because even if I say "he should switch focus and try to unlock the myriad powers related to his third eye" as an in-universe statement, it still needs writers that are willing to expand on the concept. So in short, I'll just headcanon that his training method isn't working out heh for him, I think.