Why does the majority of English-speaking DB fans hate Daima?

[SonTao]

I don't dislike it, but there are some issues.

The opening isn't memorable or particularly good. It's just neutral. Like porridge.

I don't get giving SSJ3 to Vegeta. I kind of liked it better when he had a controlled SSJ2 that rivaled SSJ3--made him a bit more special and demonstrated his control and smarts over pure power (I.E not using SSJ grade 3 against Perfect Cell because he knew the weaknesses).

Only involving Piccolo Bulma Vegeta and Kibito out of the rest of the cast seems... odd. Why even turn the rest of the cast into kids if we don't get to see their changed character dynamics. I feel as though they could have said "turn all of the strongest warriors on Earth into grade schoolers" and cut the main players they wanted away from those they were leaving on Earth. Though I suppose that means Bulma would remain an adult--semantics, though, I guess.

Majin Kuu and Majin Duu... what a pair. While I like the idea, I'm worried that they'll just be relegated to the side. If they fuse... then, hey, we have a mini boss on our hands? If not, I just hope they're involved more than any other minions. Otherwise it's kind of redundant having them around--especially after Vegeta trounced a Tamagami in SSJ3.

Retconning the Supreme Kai doesn't sit right with me. Not the kaiju tree bit, actually, I think the Glind fruit stuff is cool. I just don't think Kibito Kai should have been defused! In Super, Goku asks how the two defused wherein the revealed they used the Dragon Balls. This seems to hint that Goku hasn't seen the two defused yet. Whereas in Daima, they were absorbed by Majin Buu to split them. So unless they refuse with the potara earrings, then we have a weird timeline discrepancy. We already know it's canon to Super to some degree considering the other universes and Kais exist. Also Kibito Kai would have been better as an assistant to be honest, have them all go as one big group rather than splitting the two--it also would have given us time to get more interactions between the supporting cast on Earth without it feeling inorganic.

They should have brought Buu with them to the Demon World. It would have had more potential, maybe Buu could show recognition and act as a bit of a guide in tandem with Glorio? Faint memories working as hints? Sure, he's mostly comedic relief, but this could have provided more interest.

[Basaku]

The opening isn't memorable or particularly good. It's just neutral. Like porridge.

while it doesn't make or break the show itself (or its storytelling) yeah, I would even say it's just plain anemic and bad. Even Super's first song wasn't this coma-inducing. Not what a big adventure song should evoke and excite about the show

[Yuji]

The opening isn't memorable or particularly good. It's just neutral. Like porridge.

while it doesn't make or break the show itself (or its storytelling) yeah, I would even say it's just plain anemic and bad. Even Super's first song wasn't this coma-inducing. Not what a big adventure song should evoke and excite about the show

The chorus has grown on me but the slow build-up to it is still boring as hell. The visuals aren't great, either. I think the ED is the bigger issue, probably a lock for top 5 worst in the franchise, even when compared to all the Super slop ones we got.

[TechExpert2021]

I think the ED is the bigger issue, probably a lock for top 5 worst in the franchise, even when compared to all the Super slop ones we got.

The issue I had with the ending is that it lasts for only a minute in comparison to the opening, which lasts for a minute and a half.

But yeah, the opening and ending themes of Daima aren’t the best themes to come out of Dragon Ball.

[Zekken]

To Adress the OP and some other replies here. Yes its mostly because they were turned into kids BUT brushing off just there is not acknowledging the more nuanced reason. Thus that summation could lead to toxicity between those who address it as such and those who ascribe to that reasoning.

I'm going to address this overlooked nuance of those english speaking fans, a lot of this will not be new revelations for people in this server but I believe through time these reasonings may have been forgotten.

For a lot of english speaking fans who grew up watching DBZ first or those who got into the show through the plethora of video games thus being led to DBZ first (aka me) see dragon ball differently than those who got a proper start, or those in their formative years who later consumed the story from OG onwards. This different experiences go further than any dub changes or mischaracterization may have you believe, you also experience a different ethos to the story. Simply put DBZ to those who started with it is a power fantasy, either if you were young like Gohan and/or as you grew up you still had the likes of an adult Goku to admire.

This power fantasy aspect is a layer deeper than those fans who may only consume the DB franchise for the fights and transformations. As those fans would see something in the characters that would inspire themselves to grow, there is a reason for why a lot of Dragon Ball Z has been linked to gym motivational media and such. And I think its for the lack of this power fantasy aspect that those English speaking and western(compared to Japan) fans are immediately put off by the cast turning into kids. For as is evident there is little to admire about kid Goku and kid Vegeta in a power fantasy sense for those long time fans. They would rather want Goku to keep evolving and keep facing new challenges and while Daima may do that the premise of turning the cast into kids is antithetical to that aforementioned desire from western fans.

As long as Dragon ball for english speaking western fans as well as other European countries etc.. are linked with the Dragon Ball Z/Super image that is where people would be inclined to gravitate towards and consume. Which would perpetuate this ethos I have been describing, I am in no way admonishing it. But for the story to ever be consumed from the real beginning would require a massive franchise change in what image they showcase to the world. Including games, merchandise, TV and film etc....

Its not about hating "kid character" since I doubt anyone who does not have any passion for dragon ball to begin with from the english speaking fanbase would go so far to hate it. But its more like it does not mesh with their image of what Dragon Ball is. And its not a dub change thing but just a consequence of starting the series halfway through.

[RashFaustinho]

Now that we have this conclusion—which is also a massive troll—let’s sum things up.

Daima is a third narrative universe, separate from GT and Super, where the protagonists turn into kids again to capitalize on the part of Toriyama’s work that I liked the least: his humor.

With a premise that made absolutely no sense, an ending that makes absolutely no sense, and a central storyline so dull it pushed me to substance abuse just to stay awake.

Of all the episodes I watched, honestly, I’d only keep episode 19.
And that’s more thanks to the animators and episode directors rather than the actual writers of this story. Let’s be real, episode 19 is cool only because they turn back into adults and it’s well-animated. That’s the only reason.
Not even the Vegeta SSJ3 episode is worth saving—screw it. The design of both the form and Chibi Vegeta looks awful to me. And it sucks that the non-canon SSJ3 Vegeta is now being replaced by this abomination with Beast Gohan’s hair.

I feel bad for Toyotaro, who’ll be forced to take this garbage material and come up with ATROCIOUS headcanons just because some genius at Shueisha will tell him to integrate Daima elements into his stories.
Honestly, if it were up to me, I’d just acknowledge that this is a third narrative universe, accept that SSJ4 Strawberry exists, and then toss everything else into the dumpster—because there’s barely anything worth keeping from this series.

I’m sorry, but I stand by my controversial statement:
Dragon Ball Heroes was better.

[ZombieVito]

I’m sorry, but I stand by my controversial statement:
Dragon Ball Heroes was better.

You have my Ki sword.

[MCDaveG]

Now that we have this conclusion—which is also a massive troll—let’s sum things up.

Daima is a third narrative universe, separate from GT and Super.

With a premise that made absolutely no sense, an ending that makes absolutely no sense, and a central storyline so dull it pushed me to substance abuse just to stay awake.

Of all the episodes I watched, honestly, I’d only keep episode 19.
And that’s more thanks to the animators and episode directors rather than the actual writers of this story. Let’s be real, episode 19 is cool only because they turn back into adults and it’s well-animated. That’s the only reason.
Honestly, if it were up to me, I’d just acknowledge that this is a third narrative universe, accept that SSJ4 Strawberry exists, and then toss everything else into the dumpster—because there’s barely anything worth keeping from this series.

I’m sorry, but I stand by my controversial statement:
Dragon Ball Heroes was better.

Pretty much this... I feel and think the same way with your statements above.
After Toriyama passed away and me collecting mostly books than other physical media... I have vast collection of Batman for example and of course, the whole Dragon Ball. With all it's flaws, I thought during the Daima run, that I might finally buy the Super manga.
But with Daima ending and me reevaluating the whole franchise, I'd probably stick with just the originals, as the OG DB (DB and DBZ) is simply the best and all these gaidens and sequel, midquel gaidens - yeah, I think about Super, GT and Daima as sidestories...

My headcanon is now - and in Toriyama fashion - that at some point during the Buu arc, Beerus has farted so hard from his sleep, that it created explosion that created a multidimensional rift and split the timeline that branched into these shows that happen in concurent parallel universes.
We will definitely get another one sometime in the future.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Now that we have this conclusion—which is also a massive troll...

I can't begin to express just how much I love this and episode 19. A troll ending is Resurrection F, this was not that, not at all. Daima is how you subvert expectations in a good way. A generic ending to Gomah would've been for him to get killed by Goku's Kamehameha, but instead Kuu of all majins delivers the finishing blow in the funniest of ways. A predictable demon king would be Neva, the wise elder, but instead it was Kuu, and Toriyama made it work. A generic callback to nostalgia is bringing back old villains and recoloring them, but Kuu and Duu are actually new characters inspired by an old one, but they're so unique and lovable. Killing the Tamagami and taking the balls by force is how a lesser writer would've done it, but Toriyama adds the puzzle twist after the fight. Daima may not have been a perfect project, but you can tell that Toriyama's involvement was not exaggerated, as every scene is bursting with his signature writing style, something that was very much missing in GT and Super. If this is indeed Toriyama's final project in the series, then he went out on a high note. I've always felt that something was missing from the original run of Dragon Ball; this series fills in that gap for me.

[YamiGoku]

I'm from Latin America, I think some peapole may give Daima a Pass just because the Hype at the end, but for me its trash, weasted a lot of time and episodes on stupid shit and rushed the important parts, a lot of characers are a waste of space, the only good choreography we got on a fight was from episode 8, all the other fights were just "cool punches" with good animation, wasted a lot of time in loredumps that go nowere if Daima is its own thing, and the final villan was the most boring and unapelling of all the franchaise, Jiren at last shows some glimpses of personality at the end, but Goma once he transforms is just the most boring cliche villan of all time, on top of that the fact that he cant take permanent damage makes all the time dedicated to punching him feel like a empty and wastefull, Ssj 4 Goku looks cool in motion but once he is just standing the arms look so bad I hate it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I would say Japanese fans were equally if not far more brutal to Daima. A lot of them were not very happy about the script writing and especially the characterization of Goku got and didn't hold back in their criticisms, one person even made a thorough in depth article about why the pacing of the show was bad with comparisons to the original manga

A lot of fans also weren't happy with the lack of damage and blood depicted in fights saying they lacked weight as a result and felt like a show made for young children

One comment made me chuckle along the lines of "the wonderful animation paired with the awful script makes for compelling viewing" lol

I think 3 last episodes may have saved Daima a bit but I feel like when people look back at Daima in 10 years time that's all we really remember of it like how people forget how awful 80% of DBS was and only remember the Jiren fights etc

[sangofe]

I'm seeing this almost an awful lot even before Daima premiered, especially on some DB-Daima-related threads on GameFAQs and Reddit; and certain YT videos. Fans in those places were comparing Daima to GT (and referred to Daima as GT 2.0) or something like Teen Titans Go. Some even claim that Daima is Dragon Ball for babies. On this forum, I don't see that much hate or prejudice towards Daima. Is it because they never asked for it? Is it because they want DB Super back only for the Moro and Granola arcs to be animated (and to have a second season or DBS 2)? Is it because they thought Dragon Ball should all be about muscular men fighting each other, transformations, and power levels?

Is there clear evidence of your claims that the majority of English-speaking fans hate Daima? Is there anonymously question surveys that have been answered by a large number oef people?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

One person even made a thorough in depth article about why the pacing of the show was bad with comparisons to the original manga.

Daima would've greatly benefited from 5 less episodes. Episodes 13-16 in particular really hurt the pacing of the story.

[sangofe]

One person even made a thorough in depth article about why the pacing of the show was bad with comparisons to the original manga.

Daima would've greatly benefited from 5 less episodes. Episodes 13-16 in particular really hurt the pacing of the story.

I'd say 6 more to explain things and not rush and why not more on the glinds and more fleshed out ending?

[Mr Baggins]

one person even made a thorough in depth article about why the pacing of the show was bad with comparisons to the original manga

I'd like a link to this article, if you have it.

My observations of Japanese Twitter (keeping in mind that my Japanese is limited and I often use machine assistance) have shown the reactions are as strongly polarized as western ones. One guy even had a whole youtube video defending Daima's pacing because he noticed a fair amount of people criticizing it, lol.

But as I've mentioned in my post detailing my thoughts on Daima, this kind of thing depends on the level that people analyze the story on. If all they care about is Goku and co. rescuing Dende and being adults again, they can skip like 15 episodes and miss nothing. If they want to follow the actual character arcs and understand why the Demon Realm is a shitty place to live, though, they would be better served tuning into most of the show.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I'd say 6 more to explain things and not rush and why not more on the glinds and more fleshed out ending?

They could easily expand on certain things by replacing all those pointless walking scenes. 20 episodes was more than enough, they just didn't utilize it correctly.