Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 15 - Official Discussion Thread

[Chuquita]

+Goku getting genuinely upset after getting tased to where he takes revenge out on the ship.

+Felt like the caffeine was finally kicking in when we actually got an “ore-sama” out of Vegeta and him putting some energy into his voice.

+/-The bit with Goku running over to check on Vegeta, Vegeta asking about the bugs and for a brief second I thought “the fusion bugs?” , but no it was the stamina bugs (which was still neat).

-The Dabura flashback felt pointless to me.

-I agree that, while this episode’s action was pretty to look at in terms of wow look at all the stuff going on on screen, they really could’ve just gone ssj2 and cut down on the whole thing by like 15 minutes.

-Hybus giving the belt away for Degesu’s poop hat.

+Degesu actually getting the third eye that easily.

+Panzy and her dad battling together.

[AliTheZombie13]

I mean, "they reached the peak of their power", if that is in fact true, is a pretty good reason to simply not make a new chapter in a story about getting stronger.

Personally, I'd rather Dragon Ball just stay dead if it's going to produce repetitive, boring content.
Still, there are other ways to go around it.

Another idea that the GT writers wanted to go with was to focus solely on the new generation.
Lord knows if I could have an entire series dedicated to Videl, Pan, Bra, Marron, etc, getting stronger, I'd have that.
But neither Toei, nor Toriyama want to move on and forget about Goku and Vegeta, despite their arcs already being long done.

[Kitavares]

Finally, I had so many people on my channel get mad at me in episode 6 for speculating on Shin's exposition about gender through a trans/gender-diverse lens. Seriously, I lost 60 subscribers that day.

Oh, ironically, I saw your post on Patreon today saying that the comments on the analysis of this episode had been bad, and then there was this too. But honestly, if those 60 people left the channel over something so innocent and common, I think it was more of a blessing than a loss!

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Neva gained back some suspicion points idly standing by and not helping. It's not even that he needs to fight, but he abjured providing any support at all with a bit of sass.

And it seems Dabura usurped his own father. I do gotta wonder if he intended to get the Third Eye at some point, but figured that it being indisposed was good enough.

And Hybis continues to provide immensely satisfying comic relief, not caring at all that what appears to be a pretty girl is trying to put the moves on him and only wanting a hat. Guess King Kadan was quite accurate in his assessment that Hybis couldn't have been preparing for a date with his salon appointment.

[Venus]

This is going to be the first time that I comment on Daima's weekly episode thread.

These past few episodes have been nothing but boring, I won't really add too much because Lord Beerus pretty much said everything that's wrong with Daima so far, the first episodes were solid but we have reached a point that makes you seriously think "That's it?"

It's a wonder that the episode didn't start with the ship being damaged again and that's because the gang is not using the ship anymore.

It hurts to see Goku or Vegeta struggling against some random nameless soldiers with their laser pistols when just some episodes ago, they fought toe to toe against the Tamagami's and just a few months ago against Majin Buu.

Piccolo has been an absolute waste of a character in Daima, if anything, he should be the Co-Protagonist alongside Goku and be getting some decent devlopment considering the fact that the Namekian race came from the Demon World.

I am really not enjoying Daima anymore, the lore additions, while some are good and others are bad are not enough, so far Daima is just a big nothingburger and nothing else.

[nineko]

How in the world did they manage to screw up even an episode which had so much potential? I don't even know how to comment anymore. My overall opinion about Daima is very low as of now, but I still hope they can redeem themselves in the few remaining episodes.

[FortuneSSJ]

Daima won't be memorable. It could just be the third season of Blue Dragon.
The episode was cool, but not exciting enough for a climax.

Glad it will end soon so the staff can focus on the next project. If the pacing wasn't trash it would already be over by now.

[mecha3000]

So, I'm gonna be honest. I checked out of Daima after episode 6 and spent yesterday and today catching up. Honestly, from episode 7-15, my favorite parts have been Majin Kuu and Duu's (hope to see them in Sparking Zero) oddly endearing brotherhood with Arinsu being a reluctant mother figure, the Tamagami fights and Vegeta finally going SSJ3. Outside of that, this series is a DUD. It's mostly just lore and no substance. Even the soundtrack gets stale after a while.

And as GT fan, it's nice to know that this will bring even more people to that series, especially since Super also received criticism that brought GT new appreciation. But yeah, the whole "Our ship isn't working or got stolen" trope got old around episode 5. Daima's pacing is god awful. I'm so glad I binged it because it was easier to watch it that way. I can't imagine watching episodes 7-15 week to week. Like, UGH.

Like Geekdom said, hopefully they stick the landing, but things aren't looking great overall for Dragon Ball Die(from boredom)ma. Still, as Toriyama's last contribution to Dragon Ball and just getting new DB in general, I appreciate the good stuff it's introduced. I realize not everything needs to be FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. But Daima is going to be the ultimate case for why classic adventure Dragon Ball might not have a place with modern DB fans. Still, I do plan to buy some of the merch for it (and all the game tie-in DLCs). Ironically, Daima might be better in game form for the Kakarot DLC almost like a Dragon Quest/Blue Dragon style DB game experience. And who knows? Maybe Daima's moderate success with viewership and merch will finally lead to a new ongoing DB series (Super 2.0 or whatever).

Oh, and I'm ETERNALLY grateful for the fact that Daima will only be 20 episodes. So, it's kind of like an extra long movie in a way. But regardless, I'm always thankful for more Dragon Ball and and also thankful for Akio Iyoku. I still think he's the best guy to handle DB moving forward.

[IntangibleFancy]

So, I'm gonna be honest. I checked out of Daima after episode 6 and spent yesterday and today catching up. Honestly, from episode 7-15, my favorite parts have been Majin Kuu and Duu's (hope to see them in Sparking Zero) oddly endearing brotherhood with Arinsu being a reluctant mother figure, the Tamagami fights and Vegeta finally going SSJ3. Outside of that, this series is a DUD. It's mostly just lore and no substance. Even the soundtrack gets stale after a while.

And as GT fan, it's nice to know that this will bring even more people to that series, especially since Super also received criticism that brought GT new appreciation. But yeah, the whole "Our ship isn't working or got stolen" trope got old around episode 5. Daima's pacing is god awful. I'm so glad I binged it because it was easier to watch it that way. I can't imagine watching episodes 7-15 week to week. Like, UGH.

Like Geekdom said, hopefully they stick the landing, but things aren't looking great overall for Dragon Ball Die(from boredom)ma. Still, as Toriyama's last contribution to Dragon Ball and just getting new DB in general, I appreciate the good stuff it's introduced. I realize not everything needs to be FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. But Daima is going to be the ultimate case for why classic adventure Dragon Ball might not have a place with modern DB fans. Still, I do plan to buy some of the merch for it (and all the game tie-in DLCs). Ironically, Daima might be better in game form for the Kakarot DLC almost like a Dragon Quest/Blue Dragon style DB game experience. And who knows? Maybe Daima's moderate success with viewership and merch will finally lead to a new ongoing DB series (Super 2.0 or whatever).

Oh, and I'm ETERNALLY grateful for the fact that Daima will only be 20 episodes. So, it's kind of like an extra long movie in a way. But regardless, I'm always thankful for more Dragon Ball and and also thankful for Akio Iyoku. I still think he's the best guy to handle DB moving forward.

Honestly, I’m kind of nervous to see CC2’s work with the Daima dlc. I don’t know anything about how game development works so I’ll leave aside my fear of Storm Connections and Kimetsu 2 potentially siphoning away a lot of their manpower and energy and leaving a ghost crew behind .

I’m mostly disappointed that the first dlc is going up to episode 8, so there’s already not a lot of real story content to work with right off the bat. My second fear is the secondary material, like the side quests and stuff. It was lacking in the base game and in the RoF DLC, it got really better in the future trunks one, but sunk down to largely unforgettable in the bardock part so I don’t have a lot of high hopes for it.

What worries me is that the world will mostly be barren outside of a few stock villages and the quests are just “defeat huge monster or generic Gendarmerie fleet” and that the only high point is the tamagami fight cutscene at the end of the battle.

[Saiya6Cit]

You can't scale back Goku's adventures to something this low stakes and light anymore. It's tone deaf.

I wish Daima is dark and gritty as OG DB and DBZ…

Not me, I like Daima just the way it is. Daima wonderland shall be Dragon Ball's themepark, family friendly, pet friendly even Goku is what Mario to Nintendo, what Sonic to Sega, it should not be dark, it should inspire generations to come, to build, to grow, not to get depressed or become dark, there is Alan Poe for that and many others.

I have already given up on the idea of seing Vegeta and Bulma have a relevant role on this saga. I enjoy the action very much, the animation is good and the music very decent. It does not feel too much like dragon ball, but it works for me, because it feels like a mash up of starwars (mainly) and lord of the rings with martial arts. Quoting Bender from futurama it seems at times that their idea was "we will create our own star wars but with furry and lolis"

The Darbura background is interesting. The design on sips and vehicles in general is something I fell inlove with. The new adventures of Goku, I mean Daima is a very good show. As a hardcore DBZ and DBGT fan I feel satisfied and willing to watch the next episode.

[mecha3000]

Honestly, I’m kind of nervous to see CC2’s work with the Daima dlc. I don’t know anything about how game development works so I’ll leave aside my fear of Storm Connections and Kimetsu 2 potentially siphoning away a lot of their manpower and energy and leaving a ghost crew behind .

I’m mostly disappointed that the first dlc is going up to episode 8, so there’s already not a lot of real story content to work with right off the bat. My second fear is the secondary material, like the side quests and stuff. It was lacking in the base game and in the RoF DLC, it got really better in the future trunks one, but sunk down to largely unforgettable in the bardock part so I don’t have a lot of high hopes for it.

What worries me is that the world will mostly be barren outside of a few stock villages and the quests are just “defeat huge monster or generic Gendarmerie fleet” and that the only high point is the tamagami fight cutscene at the end of the battle.

Understandable. I don't expect too much from the DLC, but I still think playing Daima might be a better experience than watching it. And another thing, does anyone think Daima is a good entry point for new or younger fans to jump on? I've seen people (I think KaiserNeko unless I read wrong) say Daima is a good entry point for new and young fans. And I kind of get it with the whole "reintroducing classic Dragon Ball and kid Goku in the context of modern DB" and adding a fresh new twist on the "Hunt for Dragon Balls" arc. In that sense, I do feel that's where Daima shines the best.

Other than that, if Daima is indication of how DB will be handled without Toriyama (I know he worked on it, but still), then like others have said, maybe DB needs to be retired. Honestly though, I don't want that. Good animation aside, Daima has mostly been a letdown.

But again, because I'm a fan, I'm still buying Crunchyroll's eventually Daima: Parts 1 and 2 or Complete Series Blu-ray set. And I hope Daima's reception good and bad, motivates Toei or whoever to either bring back the Super anime adapting Moro/Granolah (maybe even with retellings of Broly and Super Hero) or move to EoZ with Goku, Uub and the next generation of DB. I am SO SICK of this ten year safety net period limbo that we've been stuck in for 12 years now.

[Makaioshin]

This show really would work well as the premise for an underselling but underrated Nintendo DS game. Maybe just give the characters more clearly defined roles and actually have them interact with people from the realm.

Not too much to say about this episode that hasn't been said about others. It was nice to see Zoma.

[AliTheZombie13]

I've seen people (I think KaiserNeko unless I read wrong) say Daima is a good entry point for new and young fans. And I kind of get it with the whole "reintroducing classic Dragon Ball and kid Goku in the context of modern DB" and adding a fresh new twist on the "Hunt for Dragon Balls" arc. In that sense, I do feel that's where Daima shines the best.

Heavy, heavy, heavy disagree.
Daima is the First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc, if you remove all the fun characters, all interpersonal conflict, the good pacing, the good comedy, the good soundtrack, the stakes, the tension, the diverse colorful locations, the organic and engaging world-building and replace them all with a generic brown wasteland, poop jokes and exposition dumps that just won't stop vomiting irrelevant trivia facts.

Trust me when I say this: Daima so far has been no better than a generic run-of-the-mill anime. It might entertain the kids for 2 seconds, but they'll all grow up and forget Dragon Ball exists.

[TechExpert2021]

the good soundtrack

How does the Kosuke Yamashita BGM in Daima compare to the Shunsuke Kikuchi BGM in DB and DBZ?

Trust me when I say this: Daima so far has been no better than a generic run-of-the-mill anime.

It's also a generic isekai anime but with the Dragon Ball name and its characters slapped onto it.

[Chuquita]

It doesn't impact anything, but is it true we've gone this far into Daima without a single "waku waku" from Goku?

[mecha3000]

I've seen people (I think KaiserNeko unless I read wrong) say Daima is a good entry point for new and young fans. And I kind of get it with the whole "reintroducing classic Dragon Ball and kid Goku in the context of modern DB" and adding a fresh new twist on the "Hunt for Dragon Balls" arc. In that sense, I do feel that's where Daima shines the best.

Heavy, heavy, heavy disagree.
Daima is the First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc, if you remove all the fun characters, all interpersonal conflict, the good pacing, the good comedy, the good soundtrack, the stakes, the tension, the diverse colorful locations, the organic and engaging world-building and replace them all with a generic brown wasteland, poop jokes and exposition dumps that just won't stop vomiting irrelevant trivia facts.

Trust me when I say this: Daima so far has been no better than a generic run-of-the-mill anime. It might entertain the kids for 2 seconds, but they'll all grow up and forget Dragon Ball exists.

Honestly, I was just trying to be nice and be grateful for SOMETHING from Daima, but yeah, I agree with you. I just mean more so that the Demon Realm is a new unexplored location and fighting the Tamagami adds something new to dragon ball hunting. But again, I was never saying Daima is better than the Hunt for Dragon Balls arc. GT's Black-Star Dragon Balls/Ultimate Dragon Balls arc might be better than Daima even, but I can't say for sure since I haven't watched it in years.

And with only five episodes left, I don't think that's enough time for Daima to suddenly fix all of its issues and change my view of it. All in all, once Daima's finished, I doubt I'll ever rewatch it again outside of the dub and the last few episodes which are sure to have hype moments like fusion or whatever. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

[dbgtFO]

It's a shame that I agree heavily with the negative views of Daima. I wanted it to be a fun little series, I could enjoy without thinking too hard, but alas I just can't...
There are too many things bad about it, from the supporting cast not doing much, to the fake tension with these grunts to the random exposition in the middle of the episode by some random voice, not even the narrator.
I will watch it to the end, but at this rate, it hasn't given me great expectations for the finale

[AliTheZombie13]

How does the Kosuke Yamashita BGM in Daima compare to the Shunsuke Kikuchi BGM in DB and DBZ?

Well, it's definitely better than Super's synth-based themes.
I do love myself classic orchestra-based soundtracks, but I still struggle to remember a single theme from this show.
With Super, I at least remembered the recap music, the "diabetic happy ending synth theme", and the Ultra Instinct riff that sounds suspiciously identical to Aladdin. But every time I try to remember from Daima, I draw a blank.
It's not bad, it's just... fine enough.

[Majin Buu]

Eh, I didn't hate it, but not much happened since it was mostly action. Not much in the way of good character interactions either. Things were more interesting on the lore front though.

We finally find out about the Third Eye, as was teased by the NEP. It's a power up for the Daimao. My money is on Gohma using it since he's been the one bringing it into the story by constantly lamenting its absence. Interesting that Dabra was the one behind its disappearance and that he had it stolen so he could kill his dad and become Daimao. It retroactively makes his own death a karmic one: He betrayed and murdered his father to become Daimao, only to be enslaved and later betrayed himself, resulting in his own demise. I like that. It fleshes out Dabra some more as a character.

I like how Gohma is relying on the Gendarmarie Special Forces but clearly doesn't have much faith in them. We already know they're going down so again, I appreciate that the show is self-aware enough to lean into that using Gohma. It also further hammers home that the Special Forces are fools that are in over their heads.

Degesu is being sign-posted as not liking Gohma more and more. I figured it was Degesu as a lady after thinking about that line about Glinds being genderless and defining how they wish (Yeah, he literally transitioned into a lady to do this). Hybis wanting Degesu's hat instead of a kiss for the Third Eye was great stuff (I'm repeating myself at this point, but Hybis has been such a great character). Looks like things are gonna come to a head with him in the next episode so I'll wait for that before I decide my verdict on him as a character. He hasn't been very relevant, but they've been hinting here and there that there's something more, or at least else, to him.

I figured people were gonna hate this one watching the fight scenes since this had two of the big things people have hated about the show:

1. It was mostly them fighting mooks.

2. They were visibly having difficulty dealing with them when they logically shouldn't be.

I don't know, that stuff just doesn't bother me. Is it a bit weird? Yeah, but not enough to make me angry or frustrated. I was thinking watching this that it feels like one of the justifications for turning them into kids was to make it more believable that situations like this would be enough of a challenge for them that the show could make it cool to watch. Does it work? Admittedly, not entirely. Sometimes it does make sense that being children would make certain injuries more damaging than they would be if they were adults, and the fight scenes we do get out of this are well-choreographed and animated; but yeah, when you throw things like Super Saiyan into the mix, that logic starts getting muddled (just like in GT). Is it enough to ruin the show for me though? No. The show has won me over with the stuff I like, so for me, this is merely one aspect that doesn't entirely work. A flaw, but not a big enough one to ruin the whole thing for me.

It was great seeing King Kaden and his crew show up as the calvary though. Kaden has been a fun character so it's always great when he shows up. In fact, The Third Demon World in general has given us most of the standout characters between him, Panzy, and Hybis.

I also liked Neva being like "You guys figure it out, I'm just an old guy in a support role" when Goku told him to do something. Even he knows they've got this.

We're clearly approaching the end, I'm not asking for much at this point but for things to play out to my satisfaction, we'll see if I get that or not.

[Basaku]

The problem with Daima is the cast. Maybe it can work as a show in a vacuum if you know nothing about the series and its characters, but otherwise it's just completly unbelieveable to watch 3 of the most experienced, commited and serious fighters in the franchise fight some donkeys or whatever. And I'm saying this as somone who doesn't even care much about power levels and whatnot. But descaling just doesn't work here and no amount of pushing it will erase the franchise's 40-year history in the viewers' minds and literally every single lesson about combat and fighting Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo has already learnt about.

This is why Bulma still somehow works in this story setting (she's the brains, not a fighter) but Goku and especially uber serious Vegeta and Piccolo just don't.

Overall this cast of Z-fighters is simply done and has run its course in the entire franchise. Maybe they can have some new DIFFERENT arcs in the future as aging fighters not willing to admit the years passing yada yada (like Roshi got in ToP) but as the leads, they're just not working anymore unless the stakes are multiverse-level. Yes Super happens after Daima but they already faced a galactic-scale threat in Buu and it's not like anyone can erase the fans' memories of Super and this cast hanging out, and keeping up with, the highest and most powerful demigods anyway. And even that is already boring as it's been going on since 2013.

Descaling and limitng the power creep can't work on characters like Goku/Vegeta/Piccolo, no one will ever buy it. Either have a new generation take over as inexperienced rookies who while powerful, would still be naturally prone to banal mistakes and still have to learn all the fighting/battle strategy lessons Goku/Vegeta had to. Or reboot and have Goku go through his developement from the scratch. That's why OG DB worked but Daima doesn't and basically can't work.

If they wanted Daima to pull off its descaling, they should've sent lil Goten, Trunks and Marron on an adventure in the demon world. ALONE. And it would've still been more than enough of an anniversary homage since kid Goten looks identical to Goku, Trunks would be Bulma and Marron would be Krillin. Done, homage ready. And people would buy them fighting baboons. At least far more than Goku/Vege/Piccolo. The stakes and power creep in the franchise simply got too big to ask fans to accept fighting goons with the prime main cast, even after post-Buu