Super or Daima

[DBFanGuy]

Super tried daima for like 2 episodes not for me. I’m ready for the black frieza arc more gohan beast and orange piccolo.

[super michael]

I wonder which characters people prefers Daima or DBS.

Goku I will have to say Daima is way better. Chi Chi hasn't been bad in Daima at all.
As for making a list, I will wait when Daima finish.

[AliTheZombie13]

I wonder which characters people prefers Daima or DBS.

Goku I will have to say Daima is way better. Chi Chi hasn't been bad in Daima at all.
As for making a list, I will wait when Daima finish.

Both are their own brand of bad.
Super's are extremely flanderized and rarely demonstrate any qualities other than being insufferable.
Daima's are virtually non-characters.

Still, Arinsu, Koo and Doo are far, far, far more entertaining than the villains of Super.

[Extreme_kai]

Wrong. The only two survivors, Trunks and Mai, both collapse emotionally. Mai pulls out her gun and tries to shoot at Infinite Zamasu because she's furious he killed everyone, while Trunks in literally his final scene cries and tells Gohan that he failed to defend his world. These are some of the most memorable scenes from Super, in large part thanks to the VA's outstanding performance.

and then they live happily ever after smiling with Bulma...

You say that the series should not always focus on Goku and Vegeta, but when the series decided to focus on Trunks for a change, giving him a new form and allowing him to "defeat" the main villain, the fandom ridiculed these plot developments.

Everything you claim Super doesn't do is things Super did and was ridiculed for.

A miniscule complaint in the grand scheme of things if anything. FutureTrunks return was immensly popular and asked for.

To avoid dragging this out, if your stance is that the franchise should now forevrer lean into its own tired tropes, focus on no one but Goku snd Vegata and remain stale till the end of times then no point discussing anymire as I will never agree with that.

Especially as Dragon Ball used to be SYNONYMOUS with progression of the plot, locations, AGE, changing cast and even the leads starting from its original run. It was absolutely a key aspect of it and one of the big reasons for its success as things were moving and various different characters were growing both narratively and physically. Status quo and endless rehashing of the same thing was for from Dragon Ball DNA and a journey as the key concept at its core in every iterarion, regardless if more adventure-focused in the OG or action-focused in Z. A journey doesn't get stuck in the same desert bar forever

Actually, if you're really curious, my stance is that the franchise should completely ditch the nostalgia bait and do something new for a change. But I am talking about the villains, not the heroes.

I don't care if Goku and Vegeta are the main characters. But what I do find annoying is if they fight Frieza for the 10th time. How boring, we already know everything this guy can do.

I've said many times in the past that I am tired of the rehashed villains and I want fresh new villains. Perhaps this is why I fanboy for Zamasu and Moro so much. They're literally the only new main villains, and they definitely stand out from all the recoloured versions of Frieza, Cell, Broly, and what else?

And yet it doesn't seem like anyone agrees with me, considering how all I see is excitement and hype for Black Frieza!!! I never see anyone point out that this is like the 10th time Frieza is the main antagonist.

I find this fandom very paradoxical. On this thread we have people criticizing Super for the nostalgia baits. I know it's not the same people, but on Reddit I'll see posts hyping Broly and Black Frieza that get thousands of upvotes.

And when we do get new villains, this fandom just obsesses to find similarities with previous villains, instead of trying to see these new villains as their own new characters. Like in this thread or elsewhere where we have people talking about Black like he's just another Captain Ginyu, when all they have in common is the shtick of stealing Goku's body (and even the way they did that is completely different). Or who can forget how the fandom absolutely ridiculed 7-3 Moro because of his design similarities to Perfect Cell? (and I'll admit it, I was partly guilty of this, but I have re-evaluated the character over the years)

This cognitive dissonance will never not be funny to me. People online complaining that Super is just the Goku and Vegeta nostalgia bait, but then Broly and Super Hero, literally just nostalgia baits, are the two most successful Dragon Ball movies ever, and people keep hyping up Black Frieza like it isn't the 10th time Frieza gets a new power-up to kill the Saiyans.

TL;DR So to get back to your question, I don't think the problem is that the show focuses on Goku and Vegeta. Changing well-established protagonists is a very risky move, look at Boruto. But I do believe that this franchise suffers from lack of interesting villains right now, as this fandom might complain about Super being nostalgia baits, but then they gobble up all those movies with rehashed old villains.

And as usual, I am neither advocating for one extreme nor the other. I want more new villains, and I also love what they did with Frieza in the ToP arc. As per usual I advocate for a middle ground, and while this fandom is correct that Super is doing a lot of nostalgia baits right now, I've seen so many people criticize Daima because they wanted Black Frieza instead (pure nostalgia bait).

I will praise Daima for its cast of new villains. And I truly hope that Janemba will not randomly appear in the coming weeks.

While I disagree about wanting new villains for the sake of it, I agree that the Dragonball community does not seem to know what they want. I saw all these people complaining about Freeza being alive again, and yet, they sing his praises when he insta kills Elec and Gas, the new villains they claim they wanted so badly. It's almost like they were thanking him for killing off such horrible characters and ending a mediocre arc. It's almost like they would have preferred to follow along with Freeza's off-screen training than bother with a bore like Gas. Make no bones about it I am a huge Freeza fan. He, along with Zamasu are what made DBS worth watching for me. Despite me saying all of that, I absolutely despise the idea of Black Freeza. I was hoping he would just become an anti-villain, or try to team up with someone like what was alluded to at the end of the Broly movie, but no. It's all about getting the next shiny new transformation, rinse and repeat. All Black Freeza brings to the table is an inferior version of the Namek saga with a shiny new black coat of paint. and of course, our heroes get their shiny new forms or fuse and defeat him. There really isn't much to look forward to in a Black freeza arc, which even as a mega fan makes me wish they just left the character dead. I for one am ok with Dragonball having a rogue's gallery, but not if this is the way they treat them.

If the Moro and Granolah arc ever gets animated, we will see how much fans venerate these newer villains. So far the only newer villain that gets his roses from fans Black/Zamasu(and deservedly so). I don't see that level of fandom for Moro or the God-awful Gas and the Heeter gang. I personally don't like either Gas or Moro, but, I would love to see if they can build a larger fanbase if the DBS manga is eventually adapted.

[Extreme_kai]

I wonder which characters people prefers Daima or DBS.

Goku I will have to say Daima is way better. Chi Chi hasn't been bad in Daima at all.
As for making a list, I will wait when Daima finish.

Both are their own brand of bad.
Super's are extremely flanderized and rarely demonstrate any qualities other than being insufferable.
Daima's are virtually non-characters.

Still, Arinsu, Koo and Doo are far, far, far more entertaining than the villains of Super.

How are Arinsu, Kuu, and Duu more interesting than Zamasu/Black? What has she done so far? Created two Majin, collect one Dragonball sit on her butt the entire show. Diatribe about wanting to be the Supreme Demon King, the same goal two other villains in the show want. None of the newer villains in Daima have anything on Zamasu. I even put Jiren over those characters, they are that stale.Unless you mean 'entertaining' As in goofy. " I like chocolate! Wee! I like chocolate!" We have Majin Buu for that.

[AliTheZombie13]

How are Arinsu, Kuu, and Duu more interesting than Zamasu/Black? What has she done so far? Created two Majin, collect one Dragonball sit on her butt the entire show. Diatribe about wanting to be the Supreme Demon King, the same goal two other villains in the show want. None of the newer villains in Daima have anything on Zamasu. I even put Jiren over those characters, they are that stale.Unless you mean 'entertaining' As in goofy. " I like chocolate! Wee! I like chocolate!" We have Majin Buu for that.

I meant more in general.
Zamasu was good, but Beerus, Champa, Zen'O, etc? No, fuck 'em.
Also, I'm sorry, but I don't consider any villain in Dragon Ball to be worse than Jiren.

[Zephyr]

I think that Hit, Zamasu, Geran, Koo, and Doo are all good characters. Arinsu is okay, but she is carried entirely by her interactions with her two sons.

[Extreme_kai]

How are Arinsu, Kuu, and Duu more interesting than Zamasu/Black? What has she done so far? Created two Majin, collect one Dragonball sit on her butt the entire show. Diatribe about wanting to be the Supreme Demon King, the same goal two other villains in the show want. None of the newer villains in Daima have anything on Zamasu. I even put Jiren over those characters, they are that stale.Unless you mean 'entertaining' As in goofy. " I like chocolate! Wee! I like chocolate!" We have Majin Buu for that.

I meant more in general.
Zamasu was good, but Beerus, Champa, Zen'O, etc? No, fuck 'em.
Also, I'm sorry, but I don't consider any villain in Dragon Ball to be worse than Jiren.

^All of those characters listed (Yes, Jiren included) are better IMO than Arinsu and the Majin brothers. They all had a lot of potential and did jack the entire time. Arinusu is a huge disappointment, because she could have been the first female main baddy and they blew it! She sat around letting everyone do the dirty work, and her 'plan' wasn't even clever or foolproof. It's just "I create a guy. Guy not strong enough. I create a new stronger guy to beat Tamagami. Okay, now I wait for stronger guys to bring the 2 balls here. I'll most likely lose, but it's a plan." Ugh! I despise Arinsu! At least Jiren took action. At least Jiren had a cheap Batman-like backstory to give his character a modicum of depth. Some semblance of understanding behind his stoic nature and quest for power. Arinsus explanation? "I'm a Glind. We seek power. It's in our nature, ok?" Arinsu just sits on her butt looking out the window half the time. They could have at least shown some of her brilliant science skills. A witch created the Majins for her. She couldn't even do that on her own lol!

Yeah, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Every new character in Daima has been a fumble for me.

[AliTheZombie13]

Yeah, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Every new character in Daima has been a fumble for me.

Agree to disagree.

[JulieYBM]

Arinsu definitely needs to be expanded upon more in her character and ambition. What does her desire to make the demon realm more fearsome eventually lead to? What does it mean for her, specifically?

[AliTheZombie13]

Arinsu definitely needs to be expanded upon more in her character and ambition. What does her desire to make the demon realm more fearsome eventually lead to? What does it mean for her, specifically?

I'm just glad we have a villainness who's kiiiiiiiiinda trans but not really because DB's higher-ups are all sexist assholes.
I'm fully aware Arinsu is as barebones as barebones can be. But honestly, at this point of the franchise, I'm just sick of "Overpowered Arrogant Asshole" villains. If we're really comparing, General Blue had more personality than all of them combined.

[TechExpert2021]

but not really because DB's higher-ups are all sexist assholes.

It’s more of a case of them wanting to make modern Dragon Ball anime series (Daima included) international friendly. That is the reason we didn’t get lots of brutal violence and blood in DB Super and DB Daima.

[Koitsukai]

I prefer DBS because it has what I enjoy about the franchise the most. Even with all its many, many (many) shortcomings, the good outweighs the bad at the end of the day.
Daima is good, too, has shortcomings too, it's more fun than DBS which I also enjoy but I rather see Goku destroying people in a mutiverse-at-stake scenario than ran around, hide, fight and be the goofball he used to be. Which I always loved but I prefer the more serious situations than lighthearted ones.

[Izanagi]

I can't say I'm exactly fond of either but I know what I get with Super and it entertained me, at least the Tournament of Power did. The Zamasu and Moro arc also feels like it'd be right at home with Z.

I really wish Daima was more fun, but it just isn't for me. The entirety of Daima just feels like a vacation in this ugly, barren land (most of the Demon Realm is basically a fucking desert shithole with a few shacks here and there) where any kind of ''dangerous situation'' is artificially created rather than a cool, immersive adventure.

Speaking of which, I also just can't buy into the whole adventure aspect of Daima. It simply doesn't work with Dragon Ball because road trip adventure stories live and die by their characters where the adventure itself is a transformative experience like in say, Hunter x Hunter, and the Dragon Ball cast are just too one-dimensional for that. It was never Toriyama's strong suit, no matter how much he wanted it to be.

It's even harder to buy the whole adventure aspect of Daima when they have to force gimmicks to nerf Goku because he's too strong for any obstacle to feel believable. No seriously, Goku easily defeats Tamagami 3 in the first half of the series - who's stated to be stronger than Dabura... And then a few episodes later they make him and Vegeta have trouble with some goons shooting at them with stun guns or whatever, all while not transforming just to create artificial difficulty. Just let this series rest already.

[AliTheZombie13]

Speaking of which, I also just can't buy into the whole adventure aspect of Daima. It simply doesn't work with Dragon Ball because road trip adventure stories live and die by their characters where the adventure itself is a transformative experience like in say, Hunter x Hunter, and the Dragon Ball cast are just too one-dimensional for that. It was never Toriyama's strong suit, no matter how much he wanted it to be.

It worked fairly well in the Pilaf and Red Ribbon arcs, would also personally include Black Star/Baby on that one.
Daima's just bad at it.

Just let this series rest already.

Agreed, 100%.

[MugiMikey]

I wanted it to be Daima, but Super is better in my opinion.

To me the only thing really carrying Daima is the interesting lore drops here and there, and the beautiful animation during the fights (when it DOES happen). The setting isn't interesting, the supporting cast isn't that interesting, the pacing is wack, and there's pretty much like zero stakes. I kind of wish at least one of the Tamagami would have won to make it more interesting, but nope. Not even the riddles they give the victor after winning the fight serve any narrative purpose either because everyone ends up solving them, even the dumb characters. The worst thing that seems to happen is the protagonists' ship breaking down for the fifth time or having a dragon ball stolen from them for a couple of minutes.

The villains aren't that great either-- they're either too mysterious to be all that appealing (Dr. Arinsu) or they just sit around and yap the entire time (Gomah). Most of the time I'm just waiting for something interesting to happen as they're traveling from point A to B, but unfortunately the experience is just kind of dull. I'll wait until it's over, but at this point I think I'd rather have more fun watching Dragon Ball GT and I really hate admitting that.

Super, to me, feels more like what made Dragon Ball special. Even though it's messy and is far from perfect, it's fun, and that's what Super has that Daima does not. I really had a good time watching Super during its run, and when it finished airing I was disappointed that it didn't continue. But maybe it's for the best that it went out on a high note and didn't fizzle out.

Y'know, if they insist on making more material I wish it would go beyond EoZ. Trying to cram as much as they can in this 10 year gap results in a lot of half-measures because they try (keyword here is TRY) to stay on brand and not contradict the material at the same time.

My vote goes to Super as the better experience. But hey, Daima has great animation and a cool opening though.

[dbgtFO]

Super by far. Daima is better in terms of consistent art and animation quality, but that's about it.
Super beats it in every other category by a lot.
Just as an example, much like in GT, I can't recall a single iconic piece of music within the show. Sure the intros and outros are memorable, but the soundtrack itself hasn't given me anuthing iconic like Super's had.

[The Monkey King]

The Tournament of Power was a better love letter to Dragon Ball as opposed to whatever the fuck Daima is supposed to be.

[Basaku]

Speaking of which, I also just can't buy into the whole adventure aspect of Daima. It simply doesn't work with Dragon Ball because road trip adventure stories live and die by their characters where the adventure itself is a transformative experience like in say, Hunter x Hunter, and the Dragon Ball cast are just too one-dimensional for that. It was never Toriyama's strong suit, no matter how much he wanted it to be.

It's even harder to buy the whole adventure aspect of Daima when they have to force gimmicks to nerf Goku because he's too strong for any obstacle to feel believable. No seriously, Goku easily defeats Tamagami 3 in the first half of the series - who's stated to be stronger than Dabura... And then a few episodes later they make him and Vegeta have trouble with some goons shooting at them with stun guns or whatever, all while not transforming just to create artificial difficulty. Just let this series rest already.

Which is why, again, this should've been a Goten, Trunks and Marron's big first solo formative adventure. The oppurtunity was perfect to have the actual kids, who also happen to be homages to the OG cast themselves, go on their grand escapade in this new wonder world, discover things and grow on their own and with each other under these circumstances. Downscaled battles would've worked for them too, 'cause they heavily lack the experience.

But of course "noooo must be Goku & Vegeta" thought prevailed

[SupremeKai25]

It's funny, people always talk about how Super does a lot of callbacks and nostalgia baits, but at this point Super is 10 years old. It's old enough to have its own callbacks and references in newer shows.

Why isn't Daima being demolished for the nostalgia baits like Super was with Moro 7-3 and Perfect Cell? How is this not just a nostalgic callback to Jiren?