Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 17 - Official Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

All this talk about Jiren is funny... it reminds me that it was a demon who killed Jiren's parents and mentor. Of course, with only 3 episodes left, I don't believe Jiren will be mentioned or shown in any way.

Just some food for thought.

Maybe Gomah killed Jiren's master and the Pride Troopers modeled their uniform after him, like Batman.

[Mr Baggins]

Good episode.

Tons of character interactions to enjoy this week. I won't mention them all, but a couple of standouts for me are Goku and Vegeta's childish bickering followed by Bulma playing the straight woman to her husband, and also Gomah's "oops" reactions to unwittingly destroying parts of his palace; love that he's still essentially the same character despite his power-up, like Pilaf on roids.

I'll let the action speak for itself. Easily the best we've had in the series so far, particularly in the second half of the episode, which is saying a lot because the animation and choreography has already been solid across the board.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to question whether Daima will actually manage to stick the landing holistically. We still know absolutely nothing about Glorio's backstory, and he had no interaction with Arinsu despite coming face to face with her. Whatever resolution they were going to have should have happened before this battle so that when he mentions he's going to join the fight, it elicits a stronger reaction out of me than "um, okay". From a characterization standpoint, this just doesn't have any oomph or impact behind it at all. It's not like his storyline wasn't given any buildup before now, so I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a missed opportunity. Are they actually going to do anything with him at this point?

It's funny that Shin is fighting now when he was literally shown cowering against fodder enemies two episodes ago.

This episode is simultaneously fun and also a bit worrying, which is a pretty strange impression to have this far into the climax. Hopefully the finale somehow salvages all these story threads.

Whoops, forgot to mention: Oonishi Ryou turning in a three and a half minute long fight is killer stuff.

Yeah, that was great. Anytime he's doing a cut, I'm tuned all the way in.

[Noah]

As I expected, it was a really good episode, full of action and visually smooth. However, I do have some nitpicks:

• Fake tension is pretty annoying, and I don’t even blame Daima for it since it’s something that shows up in other DB animated series, but seriously, why can’t the writers just think logically? If Goku is facing an opponent (Majin Duu) who beat a Tamagami that’s probably stronger than the one he defeated before, why not start the fight as SSJ2? Same goes for when they fight Gomah, why keep it just SSJ? Ridiculous

• Third Eye Gomah probably is the worst design from Daima, why give him the same outfit and color palette as a Pride Trooper?

• I didn’t like the interruption from Gomah, the fight between Goku and Duu was actually pretty good, they could have let it go on longer

• Great job, Bulma, for noticing something that the audience would comment on: it’s not typical for Goku to ask everyone to fight together

• Goku being all weak and saying, “Yeah... seems like I don’t have a choice,” and then turning into SSJ3 is a cheesy cliché, but I’ll let it slide because of the hype lol

• The episode put a lot of focus on the lost insect seeds, and I keep wondering if they’ll be useful for the final act. I don’t think we’re getting a SSJ3 Vegetto (mini) lol that would be insan

[Makaioshin]

Finally, an episode of Dragon Ball.

This really sums it up. It was a very DBZ movie fight action and storywise which a relief after the last string of episodes. Good episode and look forward to seeing it continue from here. Gomah isn't a martial artist so I don't see him really connecting with Goku but maybe they can build something in the next episode (or before Gomah goes berserk).

I am surprised by how quick the encounter with Arinsu was. Aside from the Doo fight getting cut short, there was nothing much with Glorio. I am guessing this will be resolved pretty quickly during the fight.

[perucho1990]

As I expected, it was a really good episode, full of action and visually smooth. However, I do have some nitpicks:

• Fake tension is pretty annoying, and I don’t even blame Daima for it since it’s something that shows up in other DB animated series, but seriously, why can’t the writers just think logically? If Goku is facing an opponent (Majin Kuu) who beat a Tamagami that’s probably stronger than the one he defeated before, why not start the fight as SSJ2? Same goes for when they fight Gomah, why keep it just SSJ? Ridiculous

• Third Eye Gomah probably is the worst design from Daima, why give him the same outfit and color palette as a Pride Trooper?

• I didn’t like the interruption from Gomah, the fight between Goku and Kuu was actually pretty good, they could have let it go on longer.
Great job, Bulma, for noticing something that the audience would comment on: it’s not typical for Goku to ask everyone to fight together

• Goku being all weak and saying, “Yeah... seems like I don’t have a choice,” and then turning into SSJ3 is a cheesy cliché, but I’ll let it slide because of the hype lol

• The episode put a lot of focus on the lost insect seeds, and I keep wondering if they’ll be useful for the final act. I don’t think we’re getting a SSJ3 Vegetto (mini) lol that would be insan

Duu, not Kuu, and he wasnt fighting seriously, let alone Gomah who pretty much said he just wanted to test hisnew powers(he wasnt even shocked at SSJ3 Goku tanking his blast).

I wont be surprised if Goku runs out of stamina in the next episode which would explain why he said "I have no choice but use SSJ3), I'm expecting the new form/fusion(if they find the bag of bugs) by the end of next weeks episode.

[Jack Bz]

This episode made me wish that Vegeta never used super saiyan 3 so that seeing it for the first time here would have been a bigger impact and I wouldn't be wondering why Vegeta didn't try going all out before passing out.

That said, loved this episode. I was worried when Goku was fighting Duu, but uuuh yep, easy to see where the budget for this episode went by the end. Some seriously fantastic animation. Still loving everything Kuu, Duu and Hybis, especially the latter just trying to ignore that he fucked up

[Chuquita]

+Second half was pretty; made me think of the final battles in Brolli & Super Hero.
+Goku and Vegeta arguing while getting in each other’s faces.
+Bulma pointing out Hybus’ missing belt and that the eye looks suspiciously like it; Hybus’ reactions to that.
+Gomah freezing Goku in place and the others coming to his rescue
+The bag of bugs falling out Goku’s pocket (will they be used next week or are they a red herring after all?), Vegeta asking for a bug as he falls
+Shin doing the sneaky-face expression when he goes up against Arinsu
+Goku finally pulling out ssj3
+Vegeta actually jumping in to fight Gomah, Goku being like “Vegeta, no!”, and Gomah flipping out when the ring he created is immediately damaged.
+Serious-mode Goku

-Gomah’s full power design looks too much like Jiren. He should’ve kept the cape, but I guess it’s easier to animate without it.
-Can’t help thinking how much cooler this episode would look if they had their adult bodies, but oh well; it’s still a solid episode.
-The gag with Neva trying to wink the Tamagami into a “hey, you should go help too” went on a little longer than necessary.

+/-Will Arinsu make a full heel-turn?
+/-Will Glorio reveal what he was hiding?

Very good ep! Looking forward to the next one.

[StaticMania]

Only 6 things of note really...

- Is it just some requirement that Goku literally isn't allowed to use his Staff once he transforms, it's really annoying...and sad.
- Ok, so Shin will step in to fight Gomah...but he wouldn't help out against the military police, just cowering behind rocks?
- Why bring the baby Dende closer to the dangerous battle?
- Arinsu choosing to help out against Gomah was disappointing, she literally had a chance to steal the Dragon Balls with ease, but no.
- Gomah did have a bit of personality in the initial scuffle with Vegeta, but it went away once the actual fight started.
- Neva subtly spurring the Tamagami to join the fight was kind of funny, though mixed in execution...his nodding was weirdly animated.

[FortuneSSJ]

The direction is bad. The final battle doesn't feel as intense as it should be and the movements are slow most of the time.
Some decisions the staff took are questionable too.

We got some boring episodes before that felt like filler, and now we couldn't get a longer Goku vs Majin Duu fight?! I don't like it.

The preview looks better. I want that fast paced action from DB. Not something that feels like slow motion like we got here and the horrible Goku vs Glorio.

Daima is making me like SSJ3

[AliTheZombie13]

Alright, I can officially say it: Daima failed me. There is nothing the show can do at this point to remedy my distaste towards it. I thought "OK, I don't like fight scenes, but maybe I'll like the next few episodes because they'll be well animated? Maybe I'll like Glorio's obvious redemption? Maybe I'll like seeing how Arinsu pulls the rug on everyone?" But no, not even that. The final fight seems hollow, completely devoid of any emotion, stakes or even the basic idea of the characters' ideals clashing.

What a waste. That this is Toriyama's parting gift, his most beloved project out of the revival era...
I just don't know what to say.

But at least, I'm in the minority. Most people seem to have liked this episode.
Power to y'all, I'm out.

[JulieYBM]

I don't mean to sound like a bitch, but if a cartoon takes 17 episodes to get good, then it's a really bad cartoon.

Dragon Ball Daima pretty much told us how bad it was going to be by the fourth episode, so I it really isn't surprising that it has turned out to not really improve.

[Mr Baggins]

^ Except the fourth episode was great. The entire first half of the show was consistently great.

Daima still has enough time to provide some satisfactory payoff. We'll see if it succeeds.

[JulieYBM]

^ Except the fourth episode was great. The entire first half of the show was consistently great.

Daima still has enough time to provide some satisfactory payoff. We'll see if it succeeds.

I'm not going to write a dozen paragraphs explaining why tensionless fights combined with lore dumped that doesn't really reflect on the characters' arcs does not make for a good television series, but given that Daima has consistently been that across the series—gags intermixed along the way—it is hardly surprising that the last handful of episodes have been instep with those early episodes.

I'm not doing a bit here, I just think that Daima sucks.

[perucho1990]

^ Except the fourth episode was great. The entire first half of the show was consistently great.

Daima still has enough time to provide some satisfactory payoff. We'll see if it succeeds.

I'm not going to write a dozen paragraphs explaining why tensionless fights combined with lore dumped that doesn't really reflect on the characters' arcs does not make for a good television series, but given that Daima has consistently been that across the series—gags intermixed along the way—it is hardly surprising that the last handful of episodes have been instep with those early episodes.

I'm not doing a bit here, I just think that Daima sucks.

Did people forget about Goku vs Jiren in Super that was mostly carried by Goku unlocking both UI and MUI and the Ultimate Battle OST, this one in Daima seemingly will rely on next weeks episode whatever the "awakening" means (either new form or a fusion)

[Extreme_kai]

I'm not a power scaling type of person, but the scaling for Gomah is hard for me to believe. Dabura's father with the eye and Dabura without the eye couldn't defeat a single Tamagami, but Gomah can? If that were true, why was he under Dabura? His base stats should be much higher than Dabura's if the eye multiplied his power by this much. You're telling me it takes like 8 guys to fight Gomah at once and it's still not working? Jiren it took 3 people, but Gomah can casually tank like 8 opponents at once, 5, arguably 6 being stronger than a tamagami? Just silly. I somehow disliked this more than last week's episode.

[Xeogran]

Jiren it took 3 people

4 actually, and they were far stronger than anyone in Daima, considering that even SSG itself is a league of power that Goku never felt before. And that's just the very first DBS power-up.

[Extreme_kai]

Jiren it took 3 people

4 actually, and they were far stronger than anyone in Daima, considering that even SSG itself is a league of power that Goku never felt before. And that's just the very first DBS power-up.

4? I thought it was only Goku, Freeza, and 17. It's been a while since I watched Super, so Idk.

[IntangibleFancy]

I wonder what’s going to become of the fusion bugs. I figured they’d be used by now but they literally got dropped lol. Whatever happens to them, I just hope Goku and Vegeta don’t become Vegito. Give us a new fusion between them. Hell, I’d rather it not be used at all.

[Mr Baggins]

I'm not going to write a dozen paragraphs explaining why tensionless fights combined with lore dumped that doesn't really reflect on the characters' arcs does not make for a good television series

If you're going to make an argument, ideally you should try to support it. I can – and definitely will, as soon as the show wraps up – write a dozen paragraphs explaining why it's been mostly the opposite of what you just described, but there's a reason I'm waiting until the end to fully itemize those thoughts. Any attempt to illuminate the subtext or supposed lack thereof without context or a full picture in mind is shortsighted and meaningless.

I just think it's funny that you cited the fourth episode, which explicitly has worldbuilding connected to one of the characters they've been travelling with. That whole first half of the series has all kinds of things that people (intentionally?) overlook.

A lot of the criticisms in this subforum have been more shallow than how they attempt to spin the series, to be honest.

[Xeogran]

4? I thought it was only Goku, Freeza, and 17. It's been a while since I watched Super, so Idk.

I mean Vegeta who fought Jiren for a long time too. Yeah not in the finale since he was out, but still.