Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[AliTheZombie13]

if you hate the show so much why are you commenting week after week on episode threads? If I hate something, I would ignore it entirely.

That's a good question, honestly. I myself don't know why I continue to do it.
Trust me, I don't like being this negative, right now I'm having a migraine and that's a good indicator I should stop for the sake of my mental health. I'll shut up.

[Mr Baggins]

Best episode yet.

That moment with Kuu throwing Duu a cookie to power him up into some pseudo Super Saiyan 3 form is great, and shows that even in an action-packed, tense and climactic episode like this one, Daima doesn't forget what makes it (as well as Dragon Ball as a whole) stand out among its contemporaries. It seriously doesn't skip a beat when it comes to its character interactions.

And while I wasn't on board with the idea of a "canon" Super Saiyan 4 at first, I gotta be honest: I like it. I like it a lot. This might be the first time that Toriyama slightly tweaked someone else's design rather than completely revamping or coming up with his own design from scratch, though I love how he pulled elements from Super Saiyan God (red eyes, magenta hair) to make this. I still wish it had more to do with the demon realm thematically, but you know what? I'll take it.

I know that at least myself and Majin Buu have touched on a lot of the subtler character building moments that have been present in most episodes up until now, but I can't overstate just how little catharsis this episode would've carried had those moments never happened. All that time I've spent watching these weirdos questing together gives me good reason to give a shit about them. It's exactly because we've had stuff like the friction with Glorio in episode 6 (and every prior interaction that built up to it), Panzy's collar liberation in episode 7, the teamwork against the thieves and subsequent fistbump moment with Glorio in episode 9, the rescues in episodes 10 and and 16 and so many other little interactions and expressions throughout their escapades that Glorio's betrayal feels as impactful as it does. Everyone's really a unit now, and this man just shattered it with a 2x4. But he's also clearly conflicted about his decision, which is obviously what makes it work as well as it does.

Pathos, baby! Ethos too for that matter, since this is well in line with how Toriyama develops character arcs – understated and gradually, with some very blink-and-you'll-miss-it turning points. Toriyama's character building works because he doesn't rely on cheap, forced melodrama à la GT and instead goes with organic, measured buildup. IMO this is NOT the series that needs to be extended significantly or given the "Kai" treatment: 20 episodes is more or less, maybe give or take an episode, the perfect length for this adventure. The pacing fits what it's doing to a tee.

Lastly, even from an action standpoint, I felt more watching this episode than anything in the entire Super TV series, including all the so-called "hype" Ultra Instinct episodes. This is just so much more enjoyable from moment to moment.

This is easily my favorite episode by far, eclipsing even the likes of the Tamagami conflicts or the hotel and minotaur episodes. Yet it wouldn't be that if it not for everything that came before it, because an episode like this can't work without all the preceding content needed to make it feel poignant. Glad this show gets that the real drama needs to come along later if it's going to be remotely convincing.

Daima would have to seriously shit the bed at this point to not flat-out be the best Dragon Ball sequel ever made, though I'll be fair and wait until it's over before making a definitive call on that.

if you hate the show so much why are you commenting week after week on episode threads? If I hate something, I would ignore it entirely.

A lot of that guy's posts are clearly ragebait, so I can only assume he's trolling. I'd just ignore and move on at this point.

[tinlunlau]

Who cracked up when Kuu charged up with spiked hair?

[Kaboom]

I hate you, Daima.

Ditto this. Modern DB doesn't know how to do anything but cheapen and downgrade everything that came before it, and Daima has now officially done the same.

[Cybersai]

My guess is Neva will unlock the form for Vegeta next week too, but it will come at the expense of his life energy and he'll die/fade away similar to Kami. There has to be consequences for Neva instead of just being a power up booster.

Also did they forget the fusion bugs? Get the feeling we're in for yet another new form with only 2 eps left.

[JulieYBM]

Re-watching the episode and it's just such a shame to me that the staff were stuck with a series that has such a bad plot. I really wish that this crew gets to work on a better project next with a good production schedule. Komaki's use of colors was just so gorgeous.

[Xeogran]

Who cracked up when Kuu charged up with spiked hair?

I liked that, really wish that was the Awakening this title was referring to.
Not only it would have been both Toriyama style and something new but also pretty unpredictable. Everyone thought he'd fuse with Duu, nobody expected Super Saiyan Majin

[The Monkey King]

Goku's transformation looks goofy and hideous, par the course with Daima's design philosophy I guess.

What a complete aesthetic downgrade from the original SSJ4, at least Toei had the sense to get Goku back in his adult body for it.

if you hate the show so much why are you commenting week after week on episode threads? If I hate something, I would ignore it entirely.

A lot of that guy's posts are clearly ragebait, so I can only assume he's trolling. I'd just ignore and move on at this point.

I've come to see AliTheZombie13 as the yin to your yang in these episode discussion threads.

Would it be fair for others to look at your posts as the ravings of a mindless Daima fanboy?

[Venus]

Meh I am not excited for this.

Let's call this Ssj4 simply "Ssj4" for now.

I don't like how Goku simply got Ssj4 thanks to Neva's magic, (I read someone who said this is a Super reference as Neva awakened Goku's Saiyan cells and the red hair is a tribute to SsjGod lol) In GT, Goku's transformation was a much bigger deal, for all the faults GT had, it absolutely nailed Goku's first transformation into Ssj4.

Ssj4 in Daima has not acomplished anything so far, pretty much a nothingburger while Goku absolutely obliterated Baby in GT until he got turned into an Ozaru by Bulma.

Gomah must be the most boring villain I've ever had to watch in Dragon Ball after Jiren, also the guy keeps getting bigger and bigger.

The Demon World dragon is just a Red Porunga, RED, another callback to GT, I don't complain though, I never thought I would like a Red Porunga this much, especially after seeing how he did quick work of Gomah.

It's clear that Glorio's wish is to turn Goku and the others back into adults, I expect adult Goku Ssj4 to be stronger than in kid form, perhaps if that's not enough we're getting Ssj4 Vegetto with the bugs or a third fusion.

Anyway, Daima might be better than Super for me, but it's still not a good product, they're doing a half assed version of GT "Made for GT fans in mind" but honestly? GT is the better product. I'd rather rewatch the original like I already have done so many times, instead of watching Daima again because it's just a dumbed down version.

[SupremeKai25]

My only complaint is the form, there were far better options than edgy SSJ4. Even then it's just a copy-paste of SSJ4 with some colour changes.

I agree that it's cool how the eyes and hair are reddish like Super Saiyan God, but then why not make further changes to make it look less resembling of that ugly SSJ4?

Given the setting in the realm of demons, this form could have had pointy ears at least. Goku with pointy ears, that's a thing that no other form has done.

I really like the reddish colour of the form though. It really does remind me of Super Saiyan God, now that this thread mentions it. Very good artistic choice for this Canon SSJ4, and a potential plot hook with Super (does this form have God ki or what?)



They really do look like similar colours!

[Mr Baggins]

Would it be fair for others to look at your posts as the ravings of a mindless Daima fanboy?

Mindless? I don't think so.

Fanboy? Depends on your definition, but yeah, it's safe to say I think the show has been more or less consistently great.

[AliTheZombie13]

I've come to see AliTheZombie13 as the yin to your yang in these episode discussion threads.

Would it be fair for others to look at your posts as the ravings of a mindless Daima fanboy?

All I can say is, I now understand GTFS, and all the people who claimed they wanted to give GT a fair chance, but only gradually grew to hate the guts out of the show. Doesn't mean I agree with them, but I understand them. Their feelings are exactly what I'm feeling about Daima right now. I genuinely don't know if TFS was ragebaiting when they were making GTFS, after all, it's a Patreon series, so it could very well be possible. But goddamn, the irony of turning into the exact same thing I criticized them for...

I wonder how they feel about Daima.

[omaro34]

Goku's transformation looks goofy and hideous, par the course with Daima's design philosophy I guess.

What a complete aesthetic downgrade from the original SSJ4, at least Toei had the sense to get Goku back in his adult body for it.

if you hate the show so much why are you commenting week after week on episode threads? If I hate something, I would ignore it entirely.

A lot of that guy's posts are clearly ragebait, so I can only assume he's trolling. I'd just ignore and move on at this point.

I've come to see AliTheZombie13 as the yin to your yang in these episode discussion threads.

Would it be fair for others to look at your posts as the ravings of a mindless Daima fanboy?

I wouldn't say its mindless, he gives his analysis and his opinions on the episode. Mindless would be screaming to the rooftops that he loves the episode without elaboration.

Plus, it makes sense to post if you like the show, but hating something and still returning week after week is what doesn't make sense.

[BernardoCairo]

I knew SSJ4 would make a comeback in Daima, except this time, it's an asspull!

Well, if you think about it, it was "asspulled" in GT, with Elder Kai pulling Goku's tail out of his ass

Regarding the "what is canon" discussion, GT was never "canon" to the original manga, so that doesn't change anything in my opinion. I think Daima is probably canon for all three Super continuities, of course. But even that is up in the air until the series ends. So nothing has changed.

[AliTheZombie13]

but hating something and still returning week after week is what doesn't make sense.

It's a flaw of mine. I continue to watch shit even though I hate it.
Hell, I watched all of Sailor Moon Crystal, for instance.

Once in a while, you get a gem like Sailor Moon Cosmos (genuinely a good movie).
Meh, there's only two episodes left of Daima, might as well finish the business. Though I promise to be less negative about it.

[Cybersai]

Do people still think Goku, Vegeta and/or Glorio or Piccolo will have that 3 way fusion? Is it too late?

[JulieYBM]

I think that it's wise not to make hating or going stag for a cartoon one's entire personality. In fact, I'm going to take my own advice and run some errands now.

[Jord]

My only complaint is the form, there were far better options than edgy SSJ4. Even then it's just a copy-paste of SSJ4 with some colour changes.

I agree that it's cool how the eyes and hair are reddish like Super Saiyan God, but then why not make further changes to make it look less resembling of that ugly SSJ4?
....
They really do look like similar colours!

That's new modus operandi for "new" DB forms. They take an existing form and just tweak the hair color and we have a "new" form. Has been the case since Super.

[Jord]

Do people still think Goku, Vegeta and/or Glorio or Piccolo will have that 3 way fusion? Is it too late?

With the GT "fan service" I would not be surprised to see a chibi Gogeta SSJ4.

[SupremeKai25]

My only complaint is the form, there were far better options than edgy SSJ4. Even then it's just a copy-paste of SSJ4 with some colour changes.

I agree that it's cool how the eyes and hair are reddish like Super Saiyan God, but then why not make further changes to make it look less resembling of that ugly SSJ4?
....
They really do look like similar colours!

That's new modus operandi for "new" DB forms. They take an existing form and just tweak the hair color and we have a "new" form. Has been the case since Super.

How ironic that I of all people would be complaining about recolours.

Nah, don't care, Super did the new forms better.

I posted an image of Super Saiyan God. You can see for yourself that the form wasn't just a colour change, it also slimmed down Goku to indicate divine elegance.