Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[Marty Kirra]

Incredibly baffling episode and series overall. This felt like a watered down Heroes episode, where things just happen and transformations are gifted randomly for the sake of selling merchandise. There is no story being told here.

I was going to go off in this thread but I think this puts it succinctly enough. I don't understand why things are happening and we are absolutely leading to a new(?) fusion as part of the finale before everyone presumably throws their signature ki blasts at the enemy...again. I don't have a whole lot else to say. I'm incredibly disappointed.

Meh, there's only two episodes left of Daima, might as well finish the business. Though I promise to be less negative about it.

I don't think you need to be less negative about it. This is a new Dragon Ball show and a super short one at that. You're allowed to have your opinion and still watch.

[fadeddreams5]

People over social media all going "WE GOT CANON SSJ4!!! GT IS OFFICIALLY DEAD!!! THANKS TORIYAMA!!!!"
I hate you, Daima.

I mean, if Goku can tap into SSJ4 at will in his adult form and Shin does not fuse again with Kibito, then that makes either Daima or Super "non-canon". lol.

I've always liked the idea that stuff like GT and the DBZ movies can all exist in separate timelines. I've had this idea since before the MCU made multiverse stuff popular (or unpopular).

[BernardoCairo]

Do people still think Goku, Vegeta and/or Glorio or Piccolo will have that 3 way fusion? Is it too late?

I've heard from leakers that this unfortunately isn't going to happen. Only two-way fusions.
I really like the idea of "the big three" fusing though.

[Xeogran]

Everyone is allowed to their own opinions, let's remember that and be respectful to one another. I'm tired of fandom wars, and sadly with this it's only gonna get even worse...

[Cybersai]

I mean, if Goku can tap into SSJ4 at will in his adult form and Shin does not fuse again with Kibito, then that makes either Daima or Super "non-canon". lol.

I've always liked the idea that stuff like GT and the DBZ movies can all exist in separate timelines. I've had this idea since before the MCU made multiverse stuff popular (or unpopular).

It's very likely they'll say Goku cannot use this form again either outside the Demon Realm or without Neva's magic. It's also very likely Shin and Kibito will accidentally fuse again in the last episode as a "joke" before they depart.

[Noah]

A freaking bizarre episode, I can’t put it any other way...

• The SSJ3 Goku vs. Gomah fight started off pretty interesting. I found it funny how Duu tried to mimic SSJ3 and, for a brief moment, actually managed to fight decently too

• Can we already say Neva is an even bigger plot device than Whis? Dude straight-up made Goku ascend into some “never-before-seen” primal form with his magic?

• If DAIMA’s only goal was to pay tribute to GT, they could’ve made that clearer instead of just dropping hints throughout the series

• SSJ4—or whatever the hell they decide to name this form—is just unacceptable to me. It makes no sense from a creative standpoint, it’s just there to generate hype with ZERO substance

• Dragon Ball has never cared about its own CANON, but I feel like today they gave the biggest MIDDLE FINGER possible to that entire debate

• Or they might edit DBGT episode #35 to add a line where Goku says, “I have a feeling I did this before...”

• Rant over... well, there’s no new DB series without a new transformation, so that's check. I just wish it was something more original

• Vegeta being useless in a final battle once again, no big news

• Considering the Tamagami created by Neva are guardian beings somewhere between SSJ2-3 in strenght, it was kinda obvious Porunga would be strong too

• And look at that, he’s RED! Yet another GT reference—who would’ve thought… At this point, I’m honestly surprised Toriyama liked this “side story” so much that he pulled so many elements from it into a script he actually wrote

• So, we finally got the big reveal about Glorio being a traitor, but honestly, I’m not that hyped for where the story is going now, cuz SSJ4 is back, with no proper buildup and a worse design—it completely killed my excitement for this series. But whatever, I’ll still watch it to the end… I mean, I didn’t even drop SUPER after that awful episode #064...

[Xeogran]

My bizarre theory that Panzy gets killed at the end and reincarnates into Pan (who just happens to be born with Gohan finally being shown) has a chance of happening now in this crazy world. Considering she's a walking Pan reference and reincarnations exist in DB, it would make more sense than Panzy just never visiting the gang after the end of Daima, especially after getting so attached to them.

I'm not expecting this to happen, but everything is possible now

[IntangibleFancy]

I finished the episode. Still really disappointed that they chose to make him a toddler in this form, and that he doesn’t have pointy ears. Maybe we’ll get one more fight with it as an adult?

I wonder what Anrinsu is going to do to Glorio when he betrays her. I hope she attacks him. I feel bad saying that, but I was looking forward to her and Degusu in the games, and my Degusu hope was dashed. If she uses one attack then she’ll be in legends at the very least.

Also, I guess that means those red characters we get every episode aren’t used to summon the dragon, or for the wish. I wonder what it is then. My second and third guess was either a punchline to a gag or some form of wordplay, or someone summons some kind of monster at the end of the show and it’s used as a cliffhanger.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

As far as animation and fight choreography are concerned, this episode looked absolutely amazing. With that out of the way, what the hell was that ? discount Ssj4 ? The biggest issue I have with the modern transformations is that they come out of nowhere and achieve nothing. If you're going to reuse something as iconic as Ssj4, can you at least actually have it be impactful ? As for how Goku reached it, it's major downgrade from how he got it in GT.

As for the next two episodes, I expect some sort of fusion between Goku and Vegeta to wrap things up. They may go as far as to give us two additional Ssj4s (or whatever they're calling this).

if you hate the show so much why are you commenting week after week on episode threads? If I hate something, I would ignore it entirely.

People who dislike the show have every right to voice their opinion, just as the people who like it do.

People over social media all going "WE GOT CANON SSJ4!!! GT IS OFFICIALLY DEAD!!! THANKS TORIYAMA!!!!"

It's amazing how one day everyone's "Ssj4 is trash, it's not canon", and now it's the complete opposite. Same thing happened with Broly before Toriyama used him. These fans don't judge things for how they are, they judge them for who wrote them.

[nato25]

A freaking bizarre episode, I can’t put it any other way...

• The SSJ3 Goku vs. Gomah fight started off pretty interesting. I found it funny how Duu tried to mimic SSJ3 and, for a brief moment, actually managed to fight decently too

• Can we already say Neva is an even bigger plot device than Whis? Dude straight-up made Goku ascend into some “never-before-seen” primal form with his magic?

• If DAIMA’s only goal was to pay tribute to GT, they could’ve made that clearer instead of just dropping hints throughout the series.

• SSJ4—or whatever the hell they decide to name this form—is just unacceptable to me. It makes no sense from a creative standpoint, it’s just there to generate hype with ZERO substance

• Dragon Ball has never cared about its own CANON, but I feel like today they gave the biggest MIDDLE FINGER possible to that entire debate

• Or they might edit DBGT episode #35 to add a line where Goku says, “I have a feeling I did this before...”

• Rant over... well, there’s no new DB series without a new transformation, so that's check. I just wish it was something more original

• Vegeta being useless in a final battle once again, no big news

• Considering the Tamagami created by Neva are guardian-level beings somewhere between SSJ2-3, it was kinda obvious Porunga would be strong too

• And look at that, he’s RED! Yet another GT reference—who would’ve thought… At this point, I’m honestly surprised Toriyama liked this “side story” so much that he pulled so many elements from it into a script he actually wrote

• So, we finally got the big reveal about Glorio being a traitor, but honestly, I’m not that hyped for where the story is going now, cuz SSJ4 is back, with no proper buildup and a worse design—it completely killed my excitement for this series. But whatever, I’ll still watch it to the end… I mean, I didn’t even drop SUPER after that awful episode #064...

All fair points. If they were going to call the Dragon Porunga why is he red?

Is it weird to anyone else that everyone just decides Glorio is a traitor? Why don't they think he just went to the Dragon Balls to make a wish for the benefit of the team?

[sunsetshimmer]

People over social media all going "WE GOT CANON SSJ4!!! GT IS OFFICIALLY DEAD!!! THANKS TORIYAMA!!!!"
I hate you, Daima.

As dead as original Broly - not at all.

These people will find any reason to bash GT so their opinion means basically nothing. I mean those are the same people that before now would laugh that "SSJ4 is not canon" or "Toriyama would never acknowledge SSJ4 existence", but when it happens they will laugh "GT is now 100% not canon as SSJ4 was replaced in Daima" and will obviously say that "new SSJ4" is better written, better looking, etc. blah blah.

It was the same with Broly. He was "non canon garbage". After he became canon, haters simply found other excuses to hate him.

GT was not dead when Super released despite many people wishing for it. And it's not dead now. And it won't be in near future.

Daima is perfect trolling made by Toriyama to people who claimed that GT was nothing like DB and that he would never create such series, make Goku small, create form that is as "overdesigned" or "edgy" like SSJ4 etc.

[ZombieVito]

Complete and utter nonsense.

I can't believe they made fucking SS4 canon.

Just say this is a different canon to Super and be done with it.

[TechExpert2021]

The red Porunga seen in the NEP for episode 19 (titled "ウラギリ" ("Betrayal")) reminds me of Ultimate Shenlong (summoned from the Ultimate Dragon Balls) seen in the first episode of DBGT.

[JulieYBM]

Complete and utter nonsense.

I can't believe they made fucking SS4 canon.

Just say this is a different canon to Super and be done with it.

Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu (Mini) beat me up and stole my lunch money before shoving me in my locker.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Whole lotta hype with this one!

Kuu and Duu continue to be the best new dynamic duo of Daima! Duu and Goku sharing long spiky hair and incredible power is both badass AND hilarious, and Tamagami #1 really held out compared to everyone else aside from those 2.

But the Third Eye is pretty damn OP with its magical power. Still, seems like Neva continues to surprise as he unlocks the latent potential with Goku's Saiyan DNA based on the visuals used to give us a main continuity SS4!

And damn, Demonic Porunga is strong as hell! He just flicked the ultra powered Third Eye Gomah away! Speaks volumes of how potent Neva's magical abilities must be.

[dbs fanboy]

Finally, a Dragon defending himself, I liked how he just flicked Gomah away like a fly.

Anyway this was entertaining and all but yeah.....would have been better if there were less episodes or as a movie.

Kui and Due keep stealing the show!

They did the Glorio subplot in such a lame way, but eh.

I've come to see AliTheZombie13 as the yin to your yang in these episode discussion threads.

Would it be fair for others to look at your posts as the ravings of a mindless Daima fanboy?

All I can say is, I now understand GTFS, and all the people who claimed they wanted to give GT a fair chance, but only gradually grew to hate the guts out of the show. Doesn't mean I agree with them, but I understand them. Their feelings are exactly what I'm feeling about Daima right now. I genuinely don't know if TFS was ragebaiting when they were making GTFS, after all, it's a Patreon series, so it could very well be possible. But goddamn, the irony of turning into the exact same thing I criticized them for...

I wonder how they feel about Daima.

TFS did a GT series? How and when?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Modern DB doesn't know how to do anything but cheapen and downgrade everything that came before it, and Daima has now officially done the same.

Modern DB is basically what you'd get if you gave a group of children a box of action figures and told them to write a story around it. Random characters fighting the heroes who keep getting unearned random transformations that go nowhere.

What a complete aesthetic downgrade from the original SSJ4, at least Toei had the sense to get Goku back in his adult body for it.

GT's producers actually considered giving it to Kid Goku, but decided against it because it didn't look right. Looking at this, I can't say they were wrong about going with adult Goku.

[Mr Baggins]

I finished the episode. Still really disappointed that they chose to make him a toddler in this form, and that he doesn’t have pointy ears. Maybe we’ll get one more fight with it as an adult?

GT references aside, I do hope we eventually see adult versions for stuff like this new Super Saiyan 4 as well as Vegeta's Super Saiyan 3. People will go wild for that shit in Sparking! Zero.

Everyone is allowed to their own opinions, let's remember that and be respectful to one another. I'm tired of fandom wars, and sadly with this it's only gonna get even worse...

For whatever it's worth, I agree with this in principle. I'm well aware that Daima is a divisive show, and even if I think some (not all, mind you) criticisms haven't been all that well reasoned or articulated myself, the very last thing I want to do is invoke a fandom war. If some of the audience doesn't enjoy what the show's doing, they have every right to feel that way.

All that's left to say on my part is that now I'm just sitting here excited as hell for the next episode and the finale, when just a week ago I was genuinely worried that the whole notion of Daima sticking the landing might have been in dire straits.

[SupremeKai25]

Right now the Daima subreddit is filled with posts of people gloating that SSJ4 is in Canon and making fun/mocking anyone who wanted a different form.

I do not share this thread's experience that people are making fun of GT. I am seeing the exact opposite. Toxicity against anyone who dislikes SSJ4 and/or simply wanted a different form altogether.

There's even posters right here in this thread mocking people who dislike GT.

[AliTheZombie13]

TFS did a GT series? How and when?

It wasn't a traditional abridged series, just two of their members doing a podcast reviewing the original Japanese GT on an episode-by-episode basis "with an open mind."

They soon devolve into finding any excuse whatsoever to hate on the show, one of which I find baffling: They start ranting about how GT sucks because the Kamehameha x10 has a multiplier attached to its attack name. So, at the time I was watching, I thought they were ragebaiting. So, it's kind of ironic I'm now on the other side of that coin.

If you want to check it out yourself, just search "GTFS" on YouTube and you'll find it in one click.