Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[Izanagi]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

[BernardoCairo]

He won't do shit.

I don't even know why he's there.

I think he's there because of how important the Namekians are to this story. The Demon Realm, Neva, the Dragon Balls, Dende... And all of that started with Piccolo. So they probably wanted to have him there as a bridge between these new elements and the viewer (he's learning more about his people along with us). Also, lately there have been attempts to make him a more prominent character again (I mean, he was the protagonist of Super Hero). I wish they had given him actual fights though. A Tamagami or even the Gendarmerie Force...

[fadeddreams5]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

[ZeroNeonix]

The crazy bastards did it. Not only did they canonize Super Saiyan 4, but it's the powered up version from Super Dragon Ball Heroes. lol

I called it before the show even came out. They're not really helping avoid the GT comparisons with this. I thought they were building up to something else with those fusion bugs, but did they write those in just to throw us off the scent? Are they actually not going to use them at all, or are they still saving them for later? I can't tell.

Super Saiyan 3 Duu was pretty funny. I'm sure he's just using his malleable body to mimic the form, not actually transforming, but I found it amusing.

So the next episode is called "Betrayal," but it doesn't tell us who is being betrayed. The preview shows us absolutely nothing. I suspect Glorio is just going to give himself the third eye, screwing over Arinsu.

[PhantomSaiyan]

The intensity of the feelings that I felt watching this can't be described. Is it creatively bankrupt? Sure. Is it cheap writing? Sure. It's whatever you want, but all of that isn't why I watch dragonball. This episode made me feel like I was a kid again, and I think that's exactly the feeling daima is trying to capture, so in my opinion, it succeeded.

Advice for everyone, looking at this through the eyes of a cynical grown up won't do you any good, it's like trying to listen to a piece of music with your nose and not your ears, you're using the wrong sense. Dragonball is to be experienced with your heart, not your brain

[TheMikado]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

I don’t like the Buu saga but how is it creatively bankrupt. I would argue not well constructed but I can think of anything directly linking it back to any of the previous arcs.

Also I feel like we’re missing a few:
SSJ but Blue
SSJ but Pink
Frieza but Gold
Frieza but Black
Fusion but girls

[ZeroNeonix]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

I don’t like the Buu saga but how is it creatively bankrupt. I would argue not well constructed but I can think of anything directly linking it back to any of the previous arcs.

Super Saiyan 3 showed up out of nowhere, without any buildup. I think what they're saying. Super does this ALL the time. Did you like God? Well, here's the Super Saiyan level of that! And now he can use Kaioken with Blue! And here's Super Saiyan...Rage? Whatever Trunks' form is called. And now Vegeta has a new form! Now Piccolo is orange! They pull these new transformations out of nowhere, like they're jingling keys in our face to keep our attention.

[SupremeKai25]

Saying that Zamasu and Moro are just rehashed old villains sure is a take.

Ah yes, I remember that time in DBZ when an evil god stole Goku's body to commit genocide, or when that ancient sorcerer broke out of prison and started eating the lifeblood of planets around the universe.

DBS has a lot of unique concepts for its villains and conflicts. Just because modern Dragon Ball also likes to rehash old things like SSJ4 (and ugly things at that) doesn't mean this franchise is "creatively bankrupt".

It's like people suddenly forgot that Daima has been one lore reveal after another.

[VegettoEX]

Both an administrative request and a personal appeal:

Can we tone down the snark across the board by about 99% please? Being dismissive and critical is one thing; I'd like it to be actually somewhat enjoyable and engaging to read through and consider posting responses to, however, please and thank you!

[nineko]

if you ask me, Red Porunga gained aura after he fingerflicked Gomah like a bug

About that, how strong are the dragons supposed to be? A relatively weak (by today's standards) Piccolo Daimaoh could easily destroy Shenron, while this Porunga wasn't bothered at all by an extremely powerful Gomah. More and more nonsense, they'll probably just say "Porunga is strong because Neva is legendary". Actually, scratch that, they're not going to say anything at all.

[Zephyr]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

To be clear, the following (non-exhaustive list) is mostly facetious. But as food for thought on how easy it is to spin stuff as uncreative when reduced down to raw, abstract, brute descriptive premises:

Spoiler:

- What if Kuririn actually became Goku's friend, just like Yamcha?
- What if Tenshinhan actually became Goku's friend, just like Kuririn?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Piccolo Daimao arc)
- What if we brought back Chichi?
- What if we brought back Tao Pai Pai?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Saiyan arc)
- What if Vegeta became a begrudging ally, just like Piccolo?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Namek arc)
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Namek arc, again)
- What if we brought back Garlic Jr.?
- What if we brought back Freeza (Mecha)?
- What if we brought back the Red Ribbon Army?
- What if we paired Bulma with Vegeta (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
- What if we brought back Coola but as a robot? (Movie 6)
- What if the Androids became begrudging allies, just like Vegeta?
- What if we brought back the Tsufruians, Freeza again, Coola again, Tullece, and Slug? (Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans)
- What if we brought back Broli? (Movie 10)
- What if we brought back Broli again? (Movie 11)
- What if we brought back everyone? (Movie 12)
- What if we brought back Kid Goku? (Baby arc)
- What if we brought back the Tsufruians again? (Baby arc)
- What if we brought back everyone again? (Super 17 arc)
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

The Original Run™ did more than its fair share of bringing older characters back, and iterating on similar themes and plot beats. Art is derivative in general, and Dragon Ball has never been above it. Riffing on Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, and Journey to the West as a starting point, and riffing on itself more and more as it went on. The movies aped from the manga, and the manga aped from the movies.

That's not to say a great bunch of the revival era isn't explicitly pulling Member Berries all the time, but it's not like they never use a retread as a springboard for something worthwhile or novel by DB standards. Because, I dunno, I think lesbian Broli is funny, and I think martial arts rival Freeza is cool, just to name a couple. No points for me on all of Daima's GT retreads, though, not!SS4 included; some cute monkey movements aside, I am really not a fan of it aesthetically, narratively, or mechanically.

[fadeddreams5]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

I don’t like the Buu saga but how is it creatively bankrupt. I would argue not well constructed but I can think of anything directly linking it back to any of the previous arcs.

Also I feel like we’re missing a few:
SSJ but Blue
SSJ but Pink
Frieza but Gold
Frieza but Black
Fusion but girls

I was referring to the asspull power-ups there, not it being creatively bankrupt compared to the stuff nowadays.

[emperior]

This episode was amazing. Very well written, animated, and storyboarded. I liked Glorio’s final struggle even though it was clear he was going to wish them back to being adults.

I am not sure how to feel about Goku’s new Super Saiyan 4 form. I probably preferred GT’s design (this looks too much like Super Saiyan God, color wise) but I like the more primate-like thing with the huge hands. But also, the way it was achieved, while it fits with Daima’s whole magic motif, felt kind of cheap (the DNA-like sequence was absolutely gorgeous though). GT executed it better.

I find myself in the weird state that this has only made me appreciate GT more, regarding Super Saiyan 4’s masterful execution over there.

But I like Daima’s take nonetheless and appreciate that they didn’t make Goku go adult with the form, which makes sense.

Now, for the next episode, I expect them to go back to being adults, with Goku turning Super Saiyan 4 but still struggling to more Gomah’s Third Eye power-ups. Then maybe Vegeta also joins as Super Saiyan 3, and then Nevah does some magic on him to go SS4 too, and they fuse.

[Trouser]

I'm sorry but... WTF XD

It's looks like Temu's Super Saiyan 4. Those big hands are awful. Such disappointment. No build up. GT version is still better, with Pan, tears, music, tension and most importantly care.

[Mr Baggins]

asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing ... to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

Lots to unpack with this one.

My response to you, and this is a sincere question, is this. Are you aware that sometimes storytelling doesn't actually need foreshadowing to be compelling? Conversely, are you aware that foreshadowing doesn't prima facie guarantee it to be any good?

I like that you mentioned the Buu arc. I get the feeling you were alluding to Super Saiyan 3, so let's talk about why it's such a good counterexample to your point:

Super Saiyan 3 being a double-edged sword consistently serviced the story. Its power eclipsed Buu's almost every time it appeared, but it also constantly hindered the protagonists without them even being aware – whether that meant speeding up Goku's remaining time on Earth, decreasing the duration of Gotenks' fusion, or not being able to maintain itself long enough to gain a decisive advantage over Pure Buu – which subsequently forced everyone to come up with more unorthodox solutions along the way. It's a red herring that actively challenged the protagonists and progressed the narrative at every turn.

Super Saiyan 3 constantly subverted expectations. It fucked with people's minds right up until the end of the story arc, making readers assume its "full power" would help Goku finally eliminate Pure Buu when, in actuality, it was the Earthlings whom would help save the day. It didn't need any foreshadowing, because foreshadowing would have completely diminished its purpose in the Buu arc – throwing off the reader. Its introduction was supposed to have been as surprising as its overall role.

Super Saiyan 3 is THE form that forced Vegeta to come to terms with the fact that Goku was simply stronger than him. It changed up their whole dynamic and developed Vegeta's character in a believable, self-reflective way. This also wouldn't have worked as effectively if it was already foreshadowed, as neither Vegeta nor the reader were privy to the form's existence during his rematch with Goku. Giving readers more knowledge than Vegeta here would undercut the tension of their evolving relationship, and substantively highlights why Goku didn't want to put a damper on Vegeta's pride by just busting it out in their earlier fight.

I don't mean to digress from the topic here. If there's a point I'm trying to make, it's that basing the substance of a transformation on whether it's an "asspull" is unfair analysis. Daima's Super Saiyan 4 may never be as substantial as the original manga's Super Saiyan 3, but then again, Daima hasn't ended yet.

[Smilodon]

Best episode at all.

Goku SSJ4 doesn't have any explanation but the fight was insane...
And the best part was Porunga kicking Gomah's ass with a single blow haha. Thanks god now we have a God Dragon that acts like a real powerful entity.

For next episode I hope:
Glorio will ask for all of then to be adults again.
And Dra Arinsu will be fighting too
I do think Panzy will die and after daima her soul will be Pan.
And the fusion... I bet it will be Piccolo + Vegeta

[perucho1990]

About that, how strong are the dragons supposed to be? A relatively weak (by today's standards) Piccolo Daimaoh could easily destroy Shenron, while this Porunga wasn't bothered at all by an extremely powerful Gomah. More and more nonsense, they'll probably just say "Porunga is strong because Neva is legendary". Actually, scratch that, they're not going to say anything at all.

Tamagami 1 kept on fighting and took punches from Gomah while Vegeta is still unable to fight, it doesnt seem that illogical that Red Porunga is strong imo, Nevah just seems to have hax magical powers.

[TheMikado]

Best episode at all.

Goku SSJ4 doesn't have any explanation but the fight was insane...
And the best part was Porunga kicking Gomah's ass with a single blow haha. Thanks god now we have a God Dragon that acts like a real powerful entity.

For next episode I hope:
Glorio will ask for all of then to be adults again.
And Dra Arinsu will be fighting too
I do think Panzy will die and after daima her soul will be Pan.
And the fusion... I bet it will be Piccolo + Vegeta

Omega Shenron and the Black Star Dragons say hi.

[fadeddreams5]

>what if we brought back Freeza (RoF)?
>what if Trunks came back for another time travel story?
>what if we brought back the Pilaf Gang?
>what if we paired Mai with Trunks (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
>what if we brought back Freeza again (ToP)?
>what if we made another Broly but as a girl (Kale)?
>what if we made Broly again?
>what if we made another Bardock flashback?
>what if we made another Cell (Cell Max)?
>what if we made another Cell (Moro) again?
>what if we made another Great Saiyaman (Goten and Trunks)?
>what if we made another SS2 Gohan (Beast)?
>what if we made GT again (Daima)?
>what if we made another Buu (Kuu, Duu)?
>what if we brought back SS4?
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

It's kind of crazy how the King Piccolo, Frieza, Cell, and Buu sagas were so unrelated and introduced completely unique villains and stories, while all the stuff nowadays loves to rehash old villains, old themes, or old sequences, and asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing, as a means of winning. Though, to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

To be clear, the following (non-exhaustive list) is mostly facetious. But as food for thought on how easy it is to spin stuff as uncreative when reduced down to raw, abstract, brute descriptive premises:

Spoiler:

- What if Kuririn actually became Goku's friend, just like Yamcha?
- What if Tenshinhan actually became Goku's friend, just like Kuririn?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Piccolo Daimao arc)
- What if we brought back Chichi?
- What if we brought back Tao Pai Pai?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Saiyan arc)
- What if Vegeta became a begrudging ally, just like Piccolo?
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Namek arc)
- What if we took Goku out of the action for a large portion of the arc, and had him come back even stronger to save everyone at the last minute, again? (Namek arc, again)
- What if we brought back Garlic Jr.?
- What if we brought back Freeza (Mecha)?
- What if we brought back the Red Ribbon Army?
- What if we paired Bulma with Vegeta (because making a new character is too much trouble)?
- What if we brought back Coola but as a robot? (Movie 6)
- What if the Androids became begrudging allies, just like Vegeta?
- What if we brought back the Tsufruians, Freeza again, Coola again, Tullece, and Slug? (Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans)
- What if we brought back Broli? (Movie 10)
- What if we brought back Broli again? (Movie 11)
- What if we brought back everyone? (Movie 12)
- What if we brought back Kid Goku? (Baby arc)
- What if we brought back the Tsufruians again? (Baby arc)
- What if we brought back everyone again? (Super 17 arc)
This franchise is so creatively bankrupt, holy shit.

The Original Run™ did more than its fair share of bringing older characters back, and iterating on similar themes and plot beats. Art is derivative in general, and Dragon Ball has never been above it. Riffing on Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, and Journey to the West as a starting point, and riffing on itself more and more as it went on. The movies aped from the manga, and the manga aped from the movies.

That's not to say a great bunch of the revival era isn't explicitly pulling Member Berries all the time, but it's not like they never use a retread as a springboard for something worthwhile or novel by DB standards. Because, I dunno, I think lesbian Broli is funny, and I think martial arts rival Freeza is cool, just to name a couple. No points for me on all of Daima's GT retreads, though, not!SS4 included; some cute monkey movements aside, I am really not a fan of it aesthetically, narratively, or mechanically.

I'm personally not against characters returning or "non-canon" villains being given a modern redesign/remake. What matters to me is how they are utilized in the story. For example, when Frieza came back in RoF, it amounted to absolutely nothing. They didn't attempt to be creative in how he obtained his new powers. Incidentally, Black Frieza is what Golden Frieza should have been, both in method obtained and design. His presence wasn't used to develop Vegeta's character. Frankly, if it was me directing, this would be Vegeta's movie, just like Super Hero was Gohan's, beginning with his time in bondage under Frieza (similarly to how the Broly movie begins in the past), and ending with his final battle against him. Instead, by the end of RoF, Frieza died, we got a bunch of asspull transformations that can be made into toys, and... well, that's it. It was a big nothing film like the old DBZ ones. Completely pointless reason to revive the character, besides making bank on nostalgia.

Compare this to Mecha Frieza, where he served a very different, but important role--a benchmark. We knew how powerful this guy was. He now returns even stronger and with a dad, who is close in power, only for both to be quickly eradicated by some unknown SSJ we learn traveled from the future to warn against an evil he cannot stop. This sets a terrifying tone. There was meaning to Frieza's return here.

If we take a look at Mercenary Tao's return, it's similar to how I mentioned Frieza SHOULD have been handled in RoF. We met this guy before meeting Tien, but later learned it was him who trained Tien to be a killer. When he returns, we are finally treated to an interaction and battle between him and his former student. It helps to emphasize the growth of Tien's character by that point.

asspull transformations out of thin air, with no foreshadowing ... to be fair, a lot of this started with the Buu saga.

Lots to unpack with this one.

My response to you, and this is a sincere question, is this. Are you aware that sometimes storytelling doesn't actually need foreshadowing to be compelling? Conversely, are you aware that foreshadowing doesn't prima facie guarantee it to be any good?

I like that you mentioned the Buu arc. I get the feeling you were alluding to Super Saiyan 3, so let's talk about why it's such a good counterexample to your point:

Super Saiyan 3 being a double-edged sword consistently serviced the story. Its power eclipsed Buu's almost every time it appeared, but it also constantly hindered the protagonists without them even being aware – whether that meant speeding up Goku's remaining time on Earth, decreasing the duration of Gotenks' fusion, or not being able to maintain itself long enough to gain a decisive advantage over Pure Buu – which subsequently forced everyone to come up with more unorthodox solutions along the way. It's a red herring that actively challenged the protagonists and progressed the narrative at every turn.

Super Saiyan 3 constantly subverted expectations. It fucked with people's minds right up until the end of the story arc, making readers assume its "full power" would help Goku finally eliminate Pure Buu when, in actuality, it was the Earthlings whom would help save the day. It didn't need any foreshadowing, because foreshadowing would have completely diminished its purpose in the Buu arc – throwing off the reader. Its introduction was supposed to have been as surprising as its overall role.

Super Saiyan 3 is THE form that forced Vegeta to come to terms with the fact that Goku was simply stronger than him. It changed up their whole dynamic and developed Vegeta's character in a believable, self-reflective way. This also wouldn't have worked as effectively if it was already foreshadowed, as neither Vegeta nor the reader were privy to the form's existence during his rematch with Goku. Giving readers more knowledge than Vegeta here would undercut the tension of their evolving relationship, and substantively highlights why Goku didn't want to put a damper on Vegeta's pride by just busting it out in their earlier fight.

I don't mean to digress from the topic here. If there's a point I'm trying to make, it's that basing the substance of a transformation on whether it's an "asspull" is unfair analysis. Daima's Super Saiyan 4 may never be as substantial as the original manga's Super Saiyan 3, but then again, Daima hasn't ended yet.

Actually, the biggest asspull to me in the Buu saga was, believe it or not... Super Saiyan 2. This saga introduced that form, not the Cell one. That used to be what Gohan Beast is now: Gohan's unique transformation based on his hidden potential that was, imagine this, foreshadowed since the very beginning of DBZ. The Buu saga decided to relegate it to a generic transformation anyone can obtain. A transformation so unremarkable that Toriyama forgot existed multiple times. If that wasn't enough, Goku becomes double ascended with SSJ3, we get fusions that can also use these forms, and Gohan gains yet another awakening power-up that makes him stronger than everyone. And don't get me started on kids becoming SSJs with no emotional triggers or intense training needed.

A lot of complaints I see about modern DB started here. Saiyans becoming SSJs because of tingly back itches? Blame Goten and Trunks. Fusions as simple trump cards to get out of any pickle? Yup. Random transformations with little explanation? Well, SSJ3 was cool, so why not? Gohan getting more awakenings for no reason? Yush. Gohan becoming weaker from not training? Started here. And so on.

[Majin Buu]

I liked this episode.

Super Saiyan 3 Duu was great. He and Kuu truly make a great duo. Kuu gave him a mega cookie and told him "you can do that too!" as Goku powered up and Duu took that literally, continuing the trend of him getting better at fighting the more he fights. He was one of the episode's awakenings and my favorite one. Too bad he lost steam once that mega cookie wore off.

Neva powers up Goku at the brink of defeat in a similar fashion to the Tamagami, basically turning him into Super Saiyan 4. Not gonna lie, I wish it was something more original, but considering the recent confirmation that this show is a love letter to GT, it makes sense for it to be Super Saiyan 4 so it's fine, but that's all it is for me, just fine. Ditto on GT doing it better.

The next part of the fight following that looked great. Goku turned the tide and took down Gomah, but the Third Eye gave Gomah his own second wind and turned him Kaiju sized. I guess Planet Mega was a warm up for Gomah's final form...

Things finally come to a head with Glorio and exactly as foreshadowed: Goku and co. have grown on him to the point that now that the time has come for him to betray them and complete his true mission, he's conflicted. Pulling a stunt like this amidst the chaos of the final battle feels like something Arinsu would do. Yeah, the wish Glorio made likely was to restore everyone to their adult forms.

The question left is who's using the fusion bug? Probably Goku and Vegeta with a Neva power up for both of them to give us Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta. Makes the most sense at this point.

Despite Super Saiyan 4 Goku being little more than "fine" for me, I liked the episode. Looking forward to seeing how this all ends.

Damn, all these reactions...