Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[Bardock God of Time]

So is this supposed to be "what if Goku got his potential unlocked?"

EIther way, how are they going to tie this back into the series?

There's no need to do so unless Broly works towards this power in the manga

[BernardoCairo]

Because Toriyama.

This is so reductionist honestly. It's as bad as idealizing everything Toriyama did without questioning anything. Sometimes it seems like people forget that this is the man who wrote the best parts of the series by far. Even after coming out of retirement he brought a lot of cool concepts to the table. He wasn't perfect, of course. But if anything, Akio Iyoku is far more responsible for the rehashing than Toriyama, as is Toei.

[Thani]

The intensity of the feelings that I felt watching this can't be described. Is it creatively bankrupt? Sure. Is it cheap writing? Sure. It's whatever you want, but all of that isn't why I watch dragonball. This episode made me feel like I was a kid again, and I think that's exactly the feeling daima is trying to capture, so in my opinion, it succeeded.

Advice for everyone, looking at this through the eyes of a cynical grown up won't do you any good, it's like trying to listen to a piece of music with your nose and not your ears, you're using the wrong sense. Dragonball is to be experienced with your heart, not your brain

This. Absolutely this.

It's not a "good story" by any means... and honestly, it's not trying to be. What it is, is a silly Dragon Quest adventure disguised as a DB story. And it's okay.

[Hellspawn28]

I wonder if it was Toei's idea for Super Saiyan 4 in Daima or if Toriyama came up with it himself?

[AliTheZombie13]

Because Toriyama.

This is so reductionist honestly. It's as bad as idealizing everything Toriyama did without questioning anything. Sometimes it seems like people forget that this is the man who wrote the best parts of the series by far. Even after coming out of retirement he brought a lot of cool concepts to the table. He wasn't perfect, of course. But if anything, Akio Iyoku is far more responsible for the rehashing than Toriyama, as is Toei.

That little comment wasn't an indicator of quality of content based on whether Toriyama wrote it or not.
It's acknowledging that, sadly, his name stamped on a product has big marketing power.

[BernardoCairo]

I wonder if it was Toei's idea for Super Saiyan 4 in Daima or if Toriyama came up with it himself?

I would bet money it was Akio Iyoku's idea (like Broly, Gogeta, Trunks coming back, etc).

[JulieYBM]

Because Toriyama.

This is so reductionist honestly. It's as bad as idealizing everything Toriyama did without questioning anything. Sometimes it seems like people forget that this is the man who wrote the best parts of the series by far. Even after coming out of retirement he brought a lot of cool concepts to the table. He wasn't perfect, of course. But if anything, Akio Iyoku is far more responsible for the rehashing than Toriyama, as is Toei.

People view Dragon Ball within a vacuum of only Dragon Ball, rather than from really having a developed diet of experience with work outside of the boys' comics ecosphere. That is to say, they view Dragon Ball as only being capable of being like other Dragon Ball—or at best, like other boys' comics—and that's kind of the big issue here, because that limited experience limits their perception of how art is and can be created. I don't think that Toriyama is infallible and I think that's very obvious with modern works that stick too closely to his outlines and don't deviate with firm conviction to letting their directors and writers do their own things separate of what they should do to appeal to a mass market appeal—which is what you see producers with a product to sell pushing the creative staff to do.

There's a reason why the closest Dragon Ball gets to having a superstar director has been Nagamine Tatsuya.

Anime that adapt original works from outside of the anime industry—like Dragon Ball—are suffering too much from this in general, though. All across the industry, we see anime workers given less-and-less creative influence on the series that they are the ones creating so as to heed the directions of people who don't actually work in the anime industry, and that's an issue that I think needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, fans hear "accurate to the original work/manga/whatever" and they have tricked themselves into thinking that that's best. It's really not.

[dbs fanboy]

The intensity of the feelings that I felt watching this can't be described. Is it creatively bankrupt? Sure. Is it cheap writing? Sure. It's whatever you want, but all of that isn't why I watch dragonball. This episode made me feel like I was a kid again, and I think that's exactly the feeling daima is trying to capture, so in my opinion, it succeeded.

Advice for everyone, looking at this through the eyes of a cynical grown up won't do you any good, it's like trying to listen to a piece of music with your nose and not your ears, you're using the wrong sense. Dragonball is to be experienced with your heart, not your brain

This. Absolutely this.

It's not a "good story" by any means... and honestly, it's not trying to be. What it is, is a silly Dragon Quest adventure disguised as a DB story. And it's okay.

I actually think Daima would work pretty great as a RpG video game, you could actually cover the lack of exploring of the Demon Realm this way!

[BernardoCairo]

That little comment wasn't an indicator of quality of content based on whether Toriyama wrote it or not.
It's acknowledging that, sadly, his name stamped on a product has big marketing power.

I get what you mean, but I disagree with this idea that people swallow anything Toriyama touches. Yes, his name is marketable, I agree. But there is a reason for this and that is the question I wanted to raise.
Just as Toriyama was celebrated for his successes, much of what went wrong also fell on his shoulders, even when he had little say in the matter. This is part of the experience of being the creator I guess.

Unfortunately, fans hear "accurate to the original work/manga/whatever" and they have tricked themselves into thinking that that's best. It's really not.

I understand your point and agree. Creative freedom is extremely important for any kind of artist. The problem is that the nature of anime is, for the most part, one of adaptation. And because of this, people feel the need to experience the work in its entirety (overlooking the differences in format between anime and manga, among other things).

[Hulk10]

I have mixed feelings now about the show.

[AliTheZombie13]

I understand your point and agree. Creative freedom is extremely important for any kind of artist. The problem is that the nature of anime is, for the most part, one of adaptation. And because of this, people feel the need to experience the work in its entirety (overlooking the differences in format between anime and manga, among other things).

Unfortunately, that's not what's happening with modern DB.
It's not a Toriyama-written and drawn comic that's being adapted.

It's ideas being brought forth by everyone else, damage-controlled by Toriyama, and then adapted by whoever the hell is writing the medium being drawn. Toyotaro doing the manga, Toei the anime.

[Hellspawn28]

I think Demon Realm’s Porung looks lame. It's just another recolor.

[Saiya6Cit]

My live reaction to SSJ4:

Hahahaa same!

Sadly X (twitter ruined it for me, big spoil) I usually watch Daima during my lunch time at work (I do home office) and I wanted to check how many views my most recent fanart upload had on X... when I saw it... This new... SSJ4!?

Shall we really be calling it SSJ4? 'cause it is different... It's muscle complexion seems more like one of a caveman? or at least more like a jungle boy, there are times when he runs and he does it as a gorilla, very interesting.

Eye candy. Visually the episode was basically that, eye candy, doing what Daima has done better so far: Keeping it flashy, colourful, shiny, dynamic, eye catchy stuff. The backgrounds always remind me of the TCG cards and the ones from that videogame+card game. The people saying this transformation confirms DBGT is still canon are correct. I am not saying DBS is not canon or that it did not happen, maybe it is some alternate universe, but the DBZ, and the DBGT anime are linked to Daima, whilst DBS is not. Xeno is related to GT, so it means it is also part of the Main Universe and Super is an alternate universe (marvel multiverse stuff), sames as several DB movies.

Having said that, the color on this transformation resembles Super Saiyan God. It could be a homage. Or even a sugestion that the power level is similar. Daima is DBGT 2.0 and one can tell Toriyama was heavily involved because of its comedy and many other things that feel very Toriyama-like. Dragon Ball Super Super Heroe Movie had that feeling for me as well. Daima is something I have enjoyed very much. From one to ten I give it a solid 8.5, regardless of the ending, I am served already.

What happened on this episode confirms what I have always thought about Goku, and why I believe Vegeta is a better warrior. Goku is a great fighter, for the simple fact that he loves to fight that makes him good at it. He stronger than some erathlings when he started and we all know where he ended up, but he was always given support. He always had a sensei. Roshi, Kami, Popo, Kaio, The supreme kais and even now in Daima the old namekian does it too. But Vegeta has to been able to match that all on his own, no sensei, no group of friends, just discipline and hard work. And that makes him better. For me. I truly hope Toei takes the right decision and instead of keeping investing money on DBS they better create more Daima. Where we get to see more of the new characters, Vegeta matching this new transformation and the rest of the DBZ classic gang actually doing something xD.


Can't wait for next episode!

PS I. I can follow you on twitter, just follow me and send me a request to follow you back. I got the same username.

[Hulk10]

My live reaction to SSJ4:

Hahahaa same!

Sadly X (twitter ruined it for me, big spoil) I usually watch Daima during my lunch time at work (I do home office) and I wanted to check how many views my most recent fanart upload had on X... when I saw it... This new... SSJ4!?

Shall we really be calling it SSJ4? 'cause it is different... It's muscle complexion seems more like one of a caveman? or at least more like a jungle boy, there are times when he runs and he does it as a gorilla, very interesting.

Eye candy. Visually the episode was basically that, eye candy, doing what Daima has done better so far: Keeping it flashy, colourful, shiny, dynamic, eye catchy stuff. The backgrounds always remind me of the TCG cards and the ones from that videogame+card game. The people saying this transformation confirms DBGT is still canon are correct. I am not saying DBS is not canon or that it did not happen, maybe it is some alternate universe, but the DBZ, and the DBGT anime are linked to Daima, whilst DBS is not. Xeno is related to GT, so it means it is also part of the Main Universe and Super is an alternate universe (marvel multiverse stuff), sames as several DB movies.

Having said that, the color on this transformation resembles Super Saiyan God. It could be a homage. Or even a sugestion that the power level is similar. Daima is DBGT 2.0 and one can tell Toriyama was heavily involved because of its comedy and many other things that feel very Toriyama-like. Dragon Ball Super Super Heroe Movie had that feeling for me as well. Daima is something I have enjoyed very much. From one to ten I give it a solid 8.5, regardless of the ending, I am served already.

What happened on this episode confirms what I have always thought about Goku, and why I believe Vegeta is a better warrior. Goku is a great fighter, for the simple fact that he loves to fight that makes him good at it. He stronger than some erathlings when he started and we all know where he ended up, but he was always given support. He always had a sensei. Roshi, Kami, Popo, Kaio, The supreme kais and even now in Daima the old namekian does it too. But Vegeta has to been able to match that all on his own, no sensei, no group of friends, just discipline and hard work. And that makes him better. For me. I truly hope Toei takes the right decision and instead of keeping investing money on DBS they better create more Daima. Where we get to see more of the new characters, Vegeta matching this new transformation and the rest of the DBZ classic gang actually doing something xD.


Can't wait for next episode!

PS I. I can follow you on twitter, just follow me and send me a request to follow you back. I got the same username.

I too question whether we should call it SSJ4

[Extreme_kai]

The intensity of the feelings that I felt watching this can't be described. Is it creatively bankrupt? Sure. Is it cheap writing? Sure. It's whatever you want, but all of that isn't why I watch dragonball. This episode made me feel like I was a kid again, and I think that's exactly the feeling daima is trying to capture, so in my opinion, it succeeded.

Advice for everyone, looking at this through the eyes of a cynical grown up won't do you any good, it's like trying to listen to a piece of music with your nose and not your ears, you're using the wrong sense. Dragonball is to be experienced with your heart, not your brain

This. Absolutely this.

It's not a "good story" by any means... and honestly, it's not trying to be. What it is, is a silly Dragon Quest adventure disguised as a DB story. And it's okay.

The issue is that Daima is not even 'shut your brain off fun' It simply isn't fun at all. This is not a side story or even a fanfiction I would want to read about Dragonball characters. Funny is subjective, but I suppose the only 'comical' exchanges we got were between Hybis( a Daima exclusive character) and our main cast. Besides the 1 billionth janken match between Vegeta and Goku, we got no meaningful or fun interactions between the two. Vegeta, Piccolo, and Bulma could've been axed and nothing of value would change from the narrative, that's how bad Daima is with characterization. I shut my brain off for DBS and could at least get some enjoyment out of it, even some parts of GT, but this? I ask myself...Who is Daima for? Daima is too boring and uneventful to keep most kid's attention. It's obviously trying to pander to og fans but it constantly insults our intelligence like a children's show. I take that back, even children's shows are more intuitive than Daima. The claim that it's for GT fans is as laughable as Cell Max being for Cell fans. GT fans wanted the real deal, not this watered-down trite.

[PrinceVegetto]

I loved this episode! So happy I watched it and avoided the internet all day so I wouldn't be spoiled or seen all the negative comments lol

I'm very curious to see how they explain the implications for SS4 in DBS. Perhaps this version of SS4 has God ki because of the red hair?

[Hulk10]

It didn't do its job to make us nostalgic.

[JulieYBM]

I'm going to keep deadnaming this new form by calling it Super Saiyan 4 until we are given a new name.

I will laugh if it goes unnamed in the series, though, like Kale's Berserk form.

[PrinceVegetto]

TFS did a GT series? How and when?

It wasn't a traditional abridged series, just two of their members doing a podcast reviewing the original Japanese GT on an episode-by-episode basis "with an open mind."

They soon devolve into finding any excuse whatsoever to hate on the show, one of which I find baffling: They start ranting about how GT sucks because the Kamehameha x10 has a multiplier attached to its attack name. So, at the time I was watching, I thought they were ragebaiting. So, it's kind of ironic I'm now on the other side of that coin.

If you want to check it out yourself, just search "GTFS" on YouTube and you'll find it in one click.

As a fan of GT & TFS for DBZA it pained me to see the hate they have for GT. It definitely seems undeserving and perplexing. They even hated the Goku Jr special

[TechExpert2021]

I have mixed feelings now about the show.

Same here. The animation and soundtrack are a few things I like about Daima.

I ask myself...Who is Daima for? Daima is too boring and uneventful to keep most kid's attention. It's obviously trying to pander to og fans but it constantly insults our intelligence like a children's show. I take that back, even children's shows are more intuitive than Daima. The claim that it's for GT fans is as laughable as Cell Max being for Cell fans. GT fans wanted the real deal, not this watered-down trite.

Akio Iyoku said that Daima is intended as an anime that GT fans who have children can watch with their children, which doesn't work like that, because kids nowadays use YouTube, TikTok, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc. for audiovisual entertainment. Not just on smart TVs, but also on smartphones and tablet devices. They don't watch traditional broadcast TV anymore.