GT or Daima

[AliTheZombie13]

The well-known adage is that GT had good ideas but bad execution. Daima has bad ideas but good execution.

In this way, I think they cancel each other out so I will just say I enjoy them both equally without any preference.

I would very much argue Daima doesn't have good execution of its ideas.
Degesu's entire character gets tossed aside after a single episode.
Arinsu makes clones of Majin Boo that only serve as cannon fodder and have her entire second plan hijacked by Glorio.
Gomah gets a super powerful McGuffin out of sheer dumb luck.
Characters like Pansy, Piccolo, Bulma, Vegeta, etc. are just there and rarely do anything.
The producer mentions in interview a big part of Daima is demonstrating Goku's growth.

And this is the part where I ask... What growth? Did Goku grow in this? In what way?
Well, he'll become an adult again, that's a given. But... Did his character suffer any drastic changes, at all?

[Cybersai]

Duu and Kuu have been the highlight of Daima, I don't see how anyone can complain about that. Them not being the main villains and being goofy is 100% better than them being generic evil Kid Buu clones.

[GokuTheMaster389]

I was planning on waiting until Daima ended before I voted, but I've seen enough.

GT for me, but I really don't like both.

I wanted to write a huge post about this, but I feel so drained from Dragon Ball now... I haven't really enjoyed any of the modern Dragon Ball series/movies since BoG, that I'm starting to question why I bother watching anymore. I just... don't even know what I want from DB anymore if that makes sense? I feel all the effort and love I have is gone now; maybe that's just getting older? Hearing the passing's of VA's, musician, and the creator himself probably hasn't helped.

[SupremeKai25]

Daima did SSJ4 much better than GT. Namekian elders giving massive power-ups to young fighters is a tale as old as time. Meanwhile SSJ4 in GT is literally an asspull. Like, literally. And it's unearned too. No training, nothing, just some sappy and melodramatic scene that lasted 2 minutes and *poof* new form.

I genuinely didn't think it was possible, but Toriyama was able to masterfully redeem SSJ4.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Daima did SSJ4 much better than GT. Namekian elders giving massive power-ups to young fighters is a tale as old as time. Meanwhile SSJ4 in GT is literally an asspull. Like, literally. And it's unearned too. No training, nothing, just some sappy and melodramatic scene that lasted 2 minutes and *poof* new form.

This is a great example of the mindset that Toriyama = good, non-Toriyama = bad, regardless of whether or not the actual thing being talked about is good or not. Your description of GT's Ssj4 is literally what Daima just did, exactly. Out of nowhere, unearned, and no training. GT's Ssj4 was built up for 3-4 episodes, it was very much earned as a result of Pan working Goku through remembering who he was, and Goku did train and even go through some pain to get his tail pulled out. These are things that factually happened in GT, but factually did not in Daima. Why can't you just admit that Toei's staff did something better than Toriyama ?

[SupremeKai25]

Daima did SSJ4 much better than GT. Namekian elders giving massive power-ups to young fighters is a tale as old as time. Meanwhile SSJ4 in GT is literally an asspull. Like, literally. And it's unearned too. No training, nothing, just some sappy and melodramatic scene that lasted 2 minutes and *poof* new form.

This is a great example of the mindset that Toriyama = good, non-Toriyama = bad, regardless of whether or not the actual thing being talked about is good or not. Your description of GT's Ssj4 is literally what Daima just did, exactly. Out of nowhere, unearned, and no training. GT's Ssj4 was built up for 3-4 episodes, it was very much earned as a result of Pan working Goku through remembering who he was, and Goku did train and even go through some pain to get his tail pulled out. These are things that did happen in GT, but not in Daima. Why can't you just admit that Toei's staff did something better than Toriyama ?

This is a great example of confirmation bias and being out of touch with reality.

If a lot of people over the years have ridiculed SSJ4, perhaps it's the form that's genuinely bad, not some conspiracy about the idea that only Toriyama can do good things.

Or maybe, could it be that SSJ4 is just bad? Nah, it must be because Toriyama didn't write it.

Maybe I said that I prefer Daima's version because it is clearly written in a superior way. Which it is. So what's so great about SSJ4 in GT? That 2 minutes long sappy scene where Pan talked about some random beach visit and now Goku's got a new Super Saiyan form? Wow, so cool. Daima's version makes perfect sense. Again, Namekian elders have the ability to grant massive power-ups to talented fighters. Nothing new or odd here.

"SSJ4 was built up for 3-4 episodes", I don't understand, is this seriously supposed to be a point in its favour? Because 3/4 episodes is NOTHING for a new form. That's the amount of episodes SSB Evolved had as build-up.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

If a lot of people over the years have ridiculed SSJ4, perhaps it's the form that's genuinely bad, not some conspiracy about the idea that only Toriyama can do good things.

You literally just said that Ssj4 in GT came out of nowhere, it was unearned, and Goku achieved it with no training. These are factually incorrect statements. You then turn around and defend Daima's Ssj4, when it did exactly what you're claiming you don't like about GT's Ssj4. If it's not Toriyama bias, then what is it ?

[SupremeKai25]

If a lot of people over the years have ridiculed SSJ4, perhaps it's the form that's genuinely bad, not some conspiracy about the idea that only Toriyama can do good things.

You literally just said that Ssj4 in GT came out of nowhere, it was unearned, and Goku achieved it with no training.

All true. Getting his tail pulled out of his ass is now considered training? It WAS unearned. Again, all he did was literally get his tail pulled out of his ass at the Elder Kaioshin world.

It's literally an asspull.

If it's not Toriyama bias, then what is it ?

I already told you what it is. It's the lore.

It is well-established lore that Namekian elders can unlock hidden depths of power and potential within young prodigies. It is also established that Neva is the greatest of elders, who created the Dragon Balls of the Demon Realm, its might wardens, as well as the travel gateways of the realm.

There's nothing odd about Neva unlocking a greater power within Goku.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

It is well-established lore that Namekian elders can unlock hidden depths of power and potential within young prodigies.

Would you have preferred if there was actual training and build up to the form instead ? Was yesterday's effort truly the best Toriyama could've done ?

[SupremeKai25]

It is well-established lore that Namekian elders can unlock hidden depths of power and potential within young prodigies.

Would you have preferred if there was actual training and build up to the form instead ? Was yesterday's effort truly the best Toriyama could've done ?

Unimaginably hot take:

The only form that truly had any build-up through training was Ultra Instinct. This form was first foreshadowed when Goku and Whis started training around the time of Frieza's first revival. This form is directly linked to and hinges on that training Goku did with Whis. No rage/emotional outburst, just training with an Angel.

Every other form is a varying degree of asspull. So no, I would not have expected any training sequence leading up to Daima SSJ4. I have come to expect asspulls from Dragon Ball.

Goku standing around for a couple of episodes waiting for the Elder Kaioshin to pull his tail out of his ass is not and will never be a form of training. It's hilarious to even suggest that it is.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The only form that truly had any build-up through training was Ultra Instinct.

Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks' first transformation into Ssj and Ssj2 for gohan were far more built up than UI was.

[SupremeKai25]

The only form that truly had any build-up through training was Ultra Instinct.

Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks' first transformation into Ssj and Ssj2 for gohan were far more built up than UI was.

Not through training.

I don't understand this, so are we calling ANYTHING a form of training these days?

Gohan didn't train to get SSJ2, he trained to get SSJ1 and maintain it at all times. He got SSJ2 because 16 died and he got mad. It's literally not training.

If you were expecting a training session from Daima's SSJ4, your expectations were unrealistic. That is not how new forms are traditionally attained.

[Hugo Boss]

SS4 in GT is far from unearned. Goku trained for decades after Majin Buu’s defeat, and regardless of how one feels about its execution, he managed to tame the unruly nature of the Great Ape transformation. His bond with Pan and his past experiences were the key to making it possible. That’s solid build-up, for me.

Daima paid tribute to SS4, and I have no issue with how Goku achieved it there because Neva’s magic is already established as overpowered. But saying SS4 needed ‘redemption’ feels like a reach.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

If you were expecting a training session from Daima's SSJ4, your expectations were unrealistic. That is not how new forms are traditionally attained.

Training and hardship were exactly how new forms were reached in Z and GT (aside from Goten and Trunks). This handout of forms and power ups is mostly exclusive to Super and Daima, as they clearly didn't want to invest the time and effort it took to make a form earned.

[SupremeKai25]

If you were expecting a training session from Daima's SSJ4, your expectations were unrealistic. That is not how new forms are traditionally attained.

Training and hardship were exactly how new forms were reached in the original series (aside from Goten and Trunks). This handout of forms and power ups is a modern DB thing.

SSG = Goku had to get massacred by Beerus in SSJ3 before getting this form

SSB = Training with Whis

SSR = Training for 1 year in Goku's body

SS Ikari = Trunks had to build frustration and get massacred for 1 year before getting this

SSB Evolved = Vegeta had to watch an entire Saiyan species get erased right in front of his eyes

Ultra Instinct = Training with Whis for 4 arcs

Ultra Ego = Training with Whis and Beerus for even longer than that

Beast Gohan = Gohan had to watch his best friend/mentor get nearly killed in front of him

Literally every single new form was unlocked either through training or hardship or both. Not one single new form was unlocked by the Elder Kaioshin pulling something from Goku's ass.

But sure, SSJ3 was totally better than those forms because *check notes* there was one throw-away comment about Goku training OFF-SCREEN for 7 years.

Oh, how I wish SSJ3, no, scrap that, the entire Buu saga came out in 2025. The fandom would be singing a much different tune when it comes to SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan. If only.

[Kid Goku X Shenron]

Let me put it this way. Daima has superior animation because duh it's released in 2024. It has fun new characters. The Tamagami fight was cool in that it incorporated martial arts into it even if it was brief.
That's about it for me. And I'm one of those people who prefer OG DB over anything else. I could care less about fights.

If I had to rate both out of 10 I would give them both 5/10 at best.
As of right now though I will say that GT had more memorable and cooler moments than Daima by a lot. When Goku turned SSJ4 in GT I was legit scared for a moment because his personality became more ruthless. I mean he punched a hole through Ice killed him then proceeded to dragon fist his dead corpse lol. That's the type of thing even villains don't do. Sadly they dropped the ball quickly with SSJ4 but for brief moments it was up there. And his line to Omega Shenron saying ''All we need is a dead body'' in response to Shenron implying there's a good place for a burial. GT really had some fresh and cool takes on things. They just couldn't keep it going for long. Also the ending of GT was perfection. Tying it back to Goku/Shenron.

Both have major issues. I wouldn't rewatch either though. To me Super/GT/Daima are all mediocre. But Super is still superior to both imo despite it being mediocre imo. This isn't to say that Z was great lol. People are blinded by nostalgia.

I just can't wait to go back to a more mature DB in the future. I hope humor will still be a part of DB and new fun characters and interactions. But I miss the more serious tone as well after Super/Daima. I'm kiddied out right now even though OG DB is my favorite thing ever. Making mediocre kiddie DB series ruined the thing I love most about DB. I was rooting for its success and was hype because I wanted DB to go back to OG DB where Goku goes on adventures with new characters. Instead we got a soulless version.

[dbs fanboy]

I pick GT.

GT out of the after Z series GT is the one that took more risks and while I will admit it gets hard for me to get through the Black Star arc and some of the early Shadow Dragons arc nowadays, the characters have more life in then than Daima's.

Daima is a tribute, to GT the same way Super feels like a tribute to the Z era, and tributes can never beat the OG.

[Jord]

Let me put it this way. Daima has superior animation because duh it's released in 2024.

Animation isn't related to the time in which it was made, it's due to budget that's being allocated.

Case in point:
The Budokai 2 opening video:
https://youtu.be/lxpth1uNPx8?si=HlnhWDrS7zClR0Qg

Super was also a "modern era" show, yet, it had often very flawed animation.

[MCDaveG]

The well-known adage is that GT had good ideas but bad execution. Daima has bad ideas but good execution.

In this way, I think they cancel each other out so I will just say I enjoy them both equally without any preference.

I would very much argue Daima doesn't have good execution of its ideas.
Degesu's entire character gets tossed aside after a single episode.
Arinsu makes clones of Majin Boo that only serve as cannon fodder and have her entire second plan hijacked by Glorio.
Gomah gets a super powerful McGuffin out of sheer dumb luck.
Characters like Pansy, Piccolo, Bulma, Vegeta, etc. are just there and rarely do anything.
The producer mentions in interview a big part of Daima is demonstrating Goku's growth.

And this is the part where I ask... What growth? Did Goku grow in this? In what way?
Well, he'll become an adult again, that's a given. But... Did his character suffer any drastic changes, at all?

He will hopefully grow with the help of dragon balls back to his adult design
But honestly, 18 episodes from 20 in and I don't see any growth from Goku besides doing dumb and adorable stuff, because thanks to his kid design, he can... would be weird if it was adult Goku constantly farting inside spaceship.

[Yuji]

It's a tough choice because they're both just so painfully mediocre but GT at least tries to challenge Dragon Ball conventions. It has its own charm. Daima does not have any, it's sterile and mind-numbingly boring.