Goku's New Form in Daima!

[Jmass97]

Anywaaaay I like how it looks and that it's not Demon-gated but Namekian-gated (so far at least). We'll see how it plays out but I'm happy, the form was always great and incredibly fitting for this franchise that WAS inspired by Journey to the West and Sun Wukong.

So IMO justice was done that Toriyama finally canonized it even if he didn't design it himself originally

Of course it doesn't fix any of the glaring Daima issues but at least there's now some pure hype moment to be had if we can't have genuinely good story and cast

I agree

[Dragmobot12]

Ok, guys, I think I’m onto something here. What if they didn’t bring back the Power Pole just for nostalgia’s sake? What if it serves a much bigger purpose? Hear me out. I have a theory that in Dragon Ball Daima, Goku will unlock a new form through the Nyoibō (Power Pole) he used in the original series. I believe it could have origins in the Demon Realm, possibly enchanted with secret magic. Returning it to its original environment could trigger its true essence, unlocking a powerful new form for Goku.

But to back this up, think about the legendary Sun Wukong. He wielded a similar weapon, a magical staff called the Ruyi Jingu Bang, which granted him incredible powers. Given the strong parallels between Goku and Wukong, it’s possible Toriyama brought the Nyoibō back to give Goku a form influenced by Sun Wukong.

Not only does this make the form feel less like a fan-service asspull, but it also doesn’t contradict anything that happens later in Super, because we never see Goku with the Power Pole again. My guess? It’ll probably be destroyed by the end of the series, or Goku will simply leave it in the Demon Realm.

Also, the way I see the form, it’s going to be very similar to SSJ4, but not quite SSJ4. It will likely lean more towards Toriyama’s original design for Goku, combining elements of Sun Wukong with a hint of SSJ4.

What do you guys think?

WELP! At least I tried to imagine the form making sense, but It was worse lol.
It is what it is, anyway.

[Mr Baggins]

We’ve been given ssj4, a form that most everyone wanted to become canon and we still have people complaining lol can’t please everyone I guess.

As I predicted earlier in this thread, it was only an inevitability that most of its fans would find it dissatisfying – at least anecdotally. Every GT fan I've spoken to wholeheartedly believes it was pretty much the perfect transformation in that series, including some personal friends of mine. I may not agree with that, myself, but it's easy to understand why they wouldn't feel all that excited at the notion of Toriyama coming in and tampering with it.

And in all fairness, I'd probably feel the same way about my own favorites. Attachments are tough to break.

Anyway, Daima's SS4 is a fun form and I'd be interested to see an adult version of it at some point.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Anyway, Daima's SS4 is a fun form and I'd be interested to see an adult version of it at some point.

Considering how likely it is that Goku and friends will be returned to adults next week, we may very well see adult Goku use it to defeat Gomah.

[Kaboom]

We’ve been given ssj4, a form that most everyone wanted to become canon and we still have people complaining lol can’t please everyone I guess.

See, this idea is what baffles and irritates me the most. This notion of "it's not a real or legitimate part of Dragon Ball until Toriyama creates his own fucked-up version of it."

Why should anyone who already liked Super Saiyan 4, which has already been a great and very much authentic part of DB for almost 30 years now, be happy with this sub-par reinterpretation from Daima? Much less feel obligated to hold it in higher regard than the already-existent good version?

That whole mindset didn't make any sense with Bardock 10 years ago, and it still doesn't make any sense with "Daima SS4" now.

[AliTheZombie13]

See, this idea is what baffles and irritates me the most. This notion of "it's not a real or legitimate part of Dragon Ball until Toriyama creates his own fucked-up version of it."

Toriyama never personally animated Dragon Ball.
Toriyama never personally composed Dragon Ball music.
Toriyama never personally voiced Dragon Ball characters.

I guess the entirety of Dragon Ball animated history is not real or legitimate, then.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

See, this idea is what baffles and irritates me the most. This notion of "it's not a real or legitimate part of Dragon Ball until Toriyama creates his own fucked-up version of it."

Toriyama never personally animated Dragon Ball.
Toriyama never personally composed Dragon Ball music.
Toriyama never personally voiced Dragon Ball characters.

I guess the entirety of Dragon Ball animated history is not real or legitimate, then.

It's sad that these Toriyama fans don't realize how little involvement he had in the modern material they've got up on the "canon" pedestal. If you go back and read the comments he put out before the release of each new product, you'll realize that he had little to do with actually coming up with the ideas themselves.

[AliTheZombie13]

It's sad that these Toriyama fans don't realize how little involvement he had in the modern material they've got up on the "canon" pedestal. If you go back and read the comments he put out before the release of each new product, you'll realize that he had little to do with actually coming up with the ideas themselves.

I'm not really looking for culprits, to be honest.
Whether Toriyama was responsible for Daima's SSJ4 himself, or he was just following some dumb shlock who came and told him, "Hey, SSJ4 is popular, we can make a quick buck out of it. Can you make your own version, sensei?" I don't really care.

The end result is the same: A flashy, empty transformation devoid of any of the original's narrative, emotional or even symbolical justification. Why should I take bootleg SSJX over the actual SSJ4, that had an entire story and character arc building up to it?

At best, I feel apathetic towards Daima's SSJ4.
At worst, I feel downright insulted that the higher-ups or even the fans themselves think I should eat this just because I like GT and would be happy to see a "canonized" version that's inferior to the original in just about every way.

[Hulk10]

We’ve been given ssj4, a form that most everyone wanted to become canon and we still have people complaining lol can’t please everyone I guess.

See, this idea is what baffles and irritates me the most. This notion of "it's not a real or legitimate part of Dragon Ball until Toriyama creates his own fucked-up version of it."

Why should anyone who already liked Super Saiyan 4, which has already been a great and very much authentic part of DB for almost 30 years now, be happy with this sub-par reinterpretation from Daima? Much less feel obligated to hold it in higher regard than the already-existent good version?

That whole mindset didn't make any sense with Bardock 10 years ago, and it still doesn't make any sense with "Daima SS4" now.

I might like the DBS take on Bardock but I do agree with you on Super Saiyan 4.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I'm not really looking for culprits, to be honest. The end result is the same: A flashy, empty transformation devoid of any of the original's narrative, emotional or even symbolical justification.

The point I was trying to make is that fans shouldn't defend it purely based on Toriyama designing and writing it, because chances are it wasn't his idea. I can't wait to see all the fans defending it switch if it's revealed that he just agreed to have it appear, but the writing and design weren't his. That's basically what happened with Broly's LSSJ form in the 2018 movie, it was all written and designed by the staff at Toei, Toriyama had no direct involvement in it beyond giving his OK.

I feel downright insulted that the higher-ups or even the fans themselves think I should eat this just because I like GT and would be happy to see a "canonized" version that's inferior to the original in just about every way.

The same thing happened in 2014 when Bardock was made "canon", then again in 2018 with Broly. It's hard to be happy when some of my favorite aspects to come out of this franchise are completely butchered beyond recognition.

[Hulk10]

I would hesitate to call Goku's new form SSJ4 at all.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I would hesitate to call Goku's new form SSJ4 at all.

False Ssj4 ?

[Hulk10]

I would hesitate to call Goku's new form SSJ4 at all.

False Ssj4 ?

No something more like Super Saiyan True Power

[BernardoCairo]

The same thing happened in 2014 when Bardock was made "canon", then again in 2018 with Broly. It's hard to be happy when some of my favorite aspects to come out of this franchise are completely butchered beyond recognition.

I can understand why some people would feel that way about Bardock, even though I never really liked any version of his character (it was when he showed up that I emotionally dropped the Granola arc for good ). But Broly? That's a surprise for me! Honestly, I never imagined people liked him. I always thought he was a brick as a character and I preferred the 2018 version almost instantly. It's nice to see this different perspective on him, even if I don't relate to it much.

Toriyama never personally animated Dragon Ball.
Toriyama never personally composed Dragon Ball music.
Toriyama never personally voiced Dragon Ball characters.

I guess the entirety of Dragon Ball animated history is not real or legitimate, then.

He created the manga, the world, the characters, and the stories. It’s hard to separate the author from his work, even though he became more interested in other things as he got older. But anime has always had a collaborative DNA (his essence plus other people's ideas). The first Dragon Ball arc has a lot of this. It's weird watching the anime when you're so used to the manga. The pacing is completely different.

[Hulk10]

It's sad that these Toriyama fans don't realize how little involvement he had in the modern material they've got up on the "canon" pedestal. If you go back and read the comments he put out before the release of each new product, you'll realize that he had little to do with actually coming up with the ideas themselves.

I'm not really looking for culprits, to be honest.
Whether Toriyama was responsible for Daima's SSJ4 himself, or he was just following some dumb shlock who came and told him, "Hey, SSJ4 is popular, we can make a quick buck out of it. Can you make your own version, sensei?" I don't really care.

The end result is the same: A flashy, empty transformation devoid of any of the original's narrative, emotional or even symbolical justification. Why should I take bootleg SSJX over the actual SSJ4, that had an entire story and character arc building up to it?

At best, I feel apathetic towards Daima's SSJ4.
At worst, I feel downright insulted that the higher-ups or even the fans themselves think I should eat this just because I like GT and would be happy to see a "canonized" version that's inferior to the original in just about every way.

You know your right, this new form is definately inferior in power and looks.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I can understand why some people would feel that way about Bardock, even though I never really liked any version of his character, But Broly? That's a surprise for me! Honestly, I never imagined people liked him.

The first Broly movie was the very first animated DB product I saw; it was my introduction to the series, so I have a soft spot for the character. I didn't particularly like his 2nd movie, but I do appreciate it giving Buu arc Gohan some time to shine. Bio-Broly was just unredeemable, and rumor has it he was going to be used a 4th time for Fusion Reborn before they (thankfully) decided against it.

[Analytical Delusion]

I really like this. Just like with Broly, it cleans up a cool idea. GT itself was not a good watch IMO, but the form was awesome.

BTW, the gatekeeping against people who care about what is Toriyama-written(/-designed) and establishing "canon" is unfortunate. It's a big part of a lot of fanbases for fiction, and it's too bad some people in the DB communities want to snuff out such discussion.

[Chuquita]

As much as I like the ssjg color-scheme for Goku, it is a lot having the hair and fur be practically the same color. I understand better now why ssj4 has black hair (or in Vegeta's case, dark brown)

Gogeta's got red, but at least his blue eyes balance it out.

[YamiGoku]

We’ve been given ssj4, a form that most everyone wanted to become canon and we still have people complaining lol can’t please everyone I guess.

This looks like shit, if this was the OG Ssj4 design, then fine, but this looks so horrible My brain cant compute how anyone can like it, the hair stopping mid way on the arms looks so ugly, I can't believe how they look at it and approve it, the pants with no belt look rally bad, and the colors are awful, on top of that they kept Goku on the mini form making it look even worse.

[BernardoCairo]

Yesterday I talked to someone who had previously revealed to me, for example, that the Super Saiyajin 4 would not have hair on his forearm (which I mentioned here on Thursday).
This time around he told me that in the next episode there will be some kind of explanation as to why Vegeta can't transform into Super Saiyajin 4. He also told me that there will be a surprise in the next episode, but he didn't go into details.
I'm not 100% sure about all of this, but since he's already got other elements right, I thought it would be interesting to share the possibility with you.