Question about Daima

[Hulk10]

Does Daima really prove that SSJ4 in inferior to SSG and SSB if Goku's new form is indeed the same as SSJ4? The reason I ask is that as we all know there are contradictory views everywhere both official and non official. Now I feel that it doesn't prove anything given the inconsistency of the franchise.

[dbs fanboy]

Power levels are Bs so it doesn't really disprove nor prove.
However I am more inclined to see the God forms as more powerful simply due to feats.

[Hulk10]

Power levels are Bs so it doesn't really disprove nor prove.
However I am more inclined to see the God forms as more powerful simply due to feats.

I can respect that view.

[Hugo Boss]

Contradictions happen even in works that are planned together, let alone ones that aren’t, like GT, Super, and Daima. Even within Super itself, there are plenty of internal inconsistencies. So, trying to determine which form is definitively stronger across different series feels pointless.

[AliTheZombie13]

No matter how strong they are, they will never be as strong as a nameless furry cat who can behead Goku any time of the day he damn wants to... in other words: the will of the writers.

[BernardoCairo]

While I've always personally thought that the God forms were stronger than Super Saiyajin 4, Daima doesn't prove or disprove anything. As far as we know, this is a new take on the transformation (its properties may have been changed). This may not even be called Super Saiyajin 4 in the future...
Also, Daima's power level scaling is different from GT's and even Super's. I think better arguments can be found in Super itself if you're looking for that.

[SupremeKai25]

Yes, it does. Daima is a prequel to Super, so Goku in BoG had knowledge of SSJ4 and Neva, yet he thought he didn't have anything that could even remotely challenge Lord Beerus until God ritual.

[Hulk10]

Contradictions happen even in works that are planned together, let alone ones that aren’t, like GT, Super, and Daima. Even within Super itself, there are plenty of internal inconsistencies. So, trying to determine which form is definitively stronger across different series feels pointless.

Indeed. DB Heroes the anime puts SSJ4 SSJB on the same level while the game does not. I personally like that the DB Heroes anime puts them on par with each other.

No matter how strong they are, they will never be as strong as a nameless furry cat who can behead Goku any time of the day he damn wants to... in other words: the will of the writers.

You make a great point, its always the will of the writers that matter. No matter what guidebooks or other things say.

[BernardoCairo]

Yes, it does. Daima is a prequel to Super, so Goku in BoG had knowledge of SSJ4 and Neva, yet he thought he didn't have anything that could even remotely challenge Lord Beerus until God ritual.

But that's not the same version of Super Saiyajin 4 as the one from GT. That's my point.

[Hulk10]

Gohan Beast doesn't have god ki and yet everyone believes its stronger than SS3 and at least as strong as SSB. So SS4 could have the same logic applied.

[Saiyan007]

SSG in the anime and manga had Goku operating on a universal scale(anime went more in depth and showcased a lot more) when before at ssj3 the best you could say was his destructive capacity was only solar system level

SSJ4 never gave me the feel that it had the same gap in power from ssj3 that Super saiyan god had

Gohan Beast doesn't have god ki and yet everyone believes its stronger than SS3 and at least as strong as SSB. So SS4 could have the same logic applied.

God ki isn't some win con condition people keep saying this nonsensical head canon and thinking it's true. Also Beast Gohan is far stronger than ssj3 and SSB the reason for that is DBSuper scales the characters a lot higher

You can't apply the same logic for GT because they don't have the same scaling.The one comparison we have is SSJ4 and Vegito

Merging With Vegeta!

After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! [His] strength [is] perhaps greater than Super Saiyan 4!?

Use the power of justice to eliminate evil!

[Hulk10]

SSG in the anime and manga had Goku operating on a universal scale(anime went more in depth and showcased a lot more) when before at ssj3 the best you could say was his destructive capacity was only solar system level

SSJ4 never gave me the feel that it had the same gap in power from ssj3 that Super saiyan god had

That's fair enough. But SS4 gave me that feel, big time. And in DB Heroes Anime SS4 was shown in a similar light, especially with its Limit Breaker Form. SSG felt flashy and unsubstatial, where as SS4 really came from the deepest part of the Saiyan's potential, after all it is said to bring out the full potiential of a Saiyan, something SSB and SSG did not.

[Saiyan007]

That's fair enough. But SS4 gave me that feel, big time. And in DB Heroes Anime SS4 was shown in a similar light, especially with its Limit Breaker Form. SSG felt flashy and unsubstatial, where as SS4 really came from the deepest part of the Saiyan's potential, after all it is said to bring out the full potiential of a Saiyan, something SSB and SSG did not.

Heroes characters scale a lot different from GT and Super not to mention limit breaker ssj4 in DB heroes is buffed by godly characters iirc

Spoiler:

even in the watered down fight in the manga SSJG is just presented as being far more powerful

[Hulk10]

That's fair enough. But SS4 gave me that feel, big time. And in DB Heroes Anime SS4 was shown in a similar light, especially with its Limit Breaker Form. SSG felt flashy and unsubstatial, where as SS4 really came from the deepest part of the Saiyan's potential, after all it is said to bring out the full potiential of a Saiyan, something SSB and SSG did not.

Heroes characters scale a lot different from GT and Super not to mention limit breaker ssj4 in DB heroes is buffed by godly characters iirc

Spoiler:

even in the watered down fight in the manga SSJG is just presented as being far more powerful

Powerscaling has always been inconsistent so that seems to not be much of a factor.

[Saiyan007]

Powerscaling has always been inconsistent so that seems to not be much of a factor.

It's not a factor to you because its shows SSJG as the superior form lol

but since Daima is a prequel to Super(unless something changes this) it still would make it weaker a weaker form

[Hulk10]

Powerscaling has always been inconsistent so that seems to not be much of a factor.

It's not a factor to you because its shows SSJG as the superior form lol

but since Daima is a prequel to Super(unless something changes this) it still would make it weaker a weaker form

No its a not factor because it goes all over the place, sometimes it shows one thing, but other times it completely disregards what it previously showed.

[Saiyan007]

No its a not factor because it goes all over the place, sometimes it shows one thing, but other times it completely disregards what it previously showed.

Again if you want to ignore it because it doesn't suit you that's fine but again Daima is a prequel to super, unless something changes in the last 2 episodes SSJ4 would be weaker

[Hulk10]

No its a not factor because it goes all over the place, sometimes it shows one thing, but other times it completely disregards what it previously showed.

Again if you want to ignore it because it doesn't suit you that's fine but again Daima is a prequel to super, unless something changes in the last 2 episodes SSJ4 would be weaker

That's not why I ignore it. Please put words in my mouth when you don't know me or my reasons.

[Saiyan007]

That's not why I ignore it. Please put words in my mouth when you don't know me or my reasons.

Well that's essentially what you're doing you said

Powerscaling has always been inconsistent so that seems to not be much of a factor.

That's you saying you don't like powerscaling so you ignore it

[Hulk10]

That's not why I ignore it. Please put words in my mouth when you don't know me or my reasons.

Well that's essentially what you're doing you said

Powerscaling has always been inconsistent so that seems to not be much of a factor.

That's you saying you don't like powerscaling so you ignore it

I was stating a fact. Powerscaling is always inconsistent in Dragon Ball. I'm not the only one saying it.