Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 18 - Official Discussion Thread

[SupremeKai25]

different lore that we know of.

You don't know the lore of this new form.

This form does not share the lore with that ugly/lame form from GT. No lore about this form has been revealed, yet.

I'm holding out hope that the lore of this new form will be tied to Super in the next 2 episodes, and frankly, I suspect there's a grander plan here.

Uhm, Toriyama literally forgot an entire character once.

You were just arguing for the existing complexity yet you're quick to dismiss established details that contribute to that very complexity just because Toriyama happened to forget a minor and arguably irrelevant character past a certain point in the story.

No, I just don't agree with the idea of dismissing an entire theory just because of a a minor and arguably irrelevant detail that Toriyama probably forgot about.

But whatever. If you don't find this theory interesting so be it.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I really liked Daima in the beginning, but it feels like they have run out of ideas and are just reusing things. Gomah looks like a demon clown version of Jiren, and this new form is just SS4 remixed. I wonder if Toriyama didn't get to finish writing Daima and someone else took over, because this feels like something out of Dragon Ball Heroes. Hopefully it ends with something more original.

[Supersaiyan69]

Could it be that the true SSG form is only achievable by having a tail , and that Neva knew this and simply regenerated Gokus tail for the transformation to happen?
Kinds ties in to the process of the transformation in GT…

Maybe Gomah reverses it when he traps goku in the bubble,
Would make sense to why they then showed him powering down through each transformation instead of straight back to base…

Honestly would make a lot of sense that their true potential isn’t achievable without a tail,
For future plot sake too it would be very easy for them to wish for it back.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I wonder if Toriyama didn't get to finish writing Daima and someone else took over, because this feels like something out of Dragon Ball Heroes.

Daima's writing was completed and production was well under way before Toriyama's passing. This lack of originality lines up exactly with what we've been getting from modern Toriyama.

[Hugo Boss]

There is already an implicit connection between SSJ4 and SSG because they have similarly-coloured eye and hair.

Yeah, there’s definitely a visual connection between them. It might not be a direct narrative link, but I think the color similarities could imply an equivalence. Both forms initially required an external trigger, so it wouldn’t be surprising if the resemblance was intentional.

[Cipher]

I am a bit torn this week. The series is great when telling stories… there was virtually no story this week, just pandering. It’s the same problem I had with Granolah arc.
Just action figures fighting.

The character-writing and story is a lot more interesting in the Granolah arc than what we've been getting in Daima. It also felt like it was taking risks and doing things with the overarching story. Wasn't complex, but I was entertained and engaged.

I'm several episodes behind on Daima and it's just in the "will catch up eventually" category.

Re: It actually being a GT retread: I'm fine with some of this in modern Dragon Ball and filtered through a Toriyama lens--Broly was really fun. But Broly also had the mercy of being 90 minutes and scripted by Toriyama himself, which I feel like we've seen goes a long way in its presence or absence.

[goku the krump dancer]

Finally got around to watching the episode.. they did exactly what some us predicted and seemingly the exact opposite of what I wanted but we’ll see if they elaborate more on what this “SS4” form is supposed to be.

At least the fight was pretty entertaining. Though it’s still hard to buy Gomah doing all these martial arts punches and kicks when his whole reputation was about his cunning and magical prowess not fighting ability. Speaking of which it’s also funny how the most interesting thing he’s done since merging with the Eye was put Goku into that energy draining sphere. Also it’s not clear if he can control the power of the eye or not, it’s seemed to burst with energy on its own and not on his command because when Porunga was summoned he was back to his standard buff form.

We knew the Glorio double betrayal was coming but I wish they used some of their “adventure time” showing Glorio struggling a bit internally about wanting to backstab his “crew” . We don’t even fully know why he’s working for Arinsu in the first place.

Also I like how demon world Parunga can get physical and is seemingly powerful enough to swat Gomah away with no effort.

All in all 6/10.. The form doesn’t offened me as much as Beast Gohan still does, however I AM NOT fan of this concept of Free B power ups that have run wild in modern DB since Goku’s fight with Hit if not since the debut of Golden Freeza.

[UpFromTheSkies]

If I had to guess, I'd say Neva did to Goku what Guru did to Krillin on Namek, but on a much greater scale, unlocking his true full power, but it was temporary and we won't see it again.

[IntangibleFancy]

Do you guys think we’ll get some Zalama lore before the series ends? It bugs me that he hasn’t been name dropped once. Him or Zeno.

[Cybersai]

Personally I don't know how they're going to fit everything into just 2 more episodes:

- Gomah has to be defeated

- Goku and/or Vegeta will likely use SSJ4 one more time

- The fusion bugs still have to be used because there was no point to introduce them otherwise

- Some time will be spent showing the main cast go back to their current ages, even if it's less than 5 minutes, that's still time out of the episode spent (and probably cut to everyone else back on Earth like Krillin, Yamcha, Trunks/Goten, etc)

- Arinsu has to be dealt with in some form. She's not going to get a fight, but just defeated her like Degesu will be really lame.

- Goku and co. have to say goodbye to Glorio, Panzy and the rest of the Demon Realm characters, this will take some time as this will be their sendoff to these characters. Duu and Kuu will likely stay behind as good guys in the Demon Realm.

- Last but not least, if they don't show Shin and Kibito accidentally fuse again in the last episode I will be pissed.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I am a bit torn this week. The series is great when telling stories… there was virtually no story this week, just pandering. It’s the same problem I had with Granolah arc.
Just action figures fighting.

The character-writing and story is a lot more interesting in the Granolah arc than what we've been getting in Daima. It also felt like it was taking risks and doing things with the overarching story. Wasn't complex, but I was entertained and engaged.

I'm several episodes behind on Daima and it's just in the "will catch up eventually" category.

Re: It actually being a GT retread: I'm fine with some of this in modern Dragon Ball and filtered through a Toriyama lens--Broly was really fun. But Broly also had the mercy of being 90 minutes and scripted by Toriyama himself, which I feel like we've seen goes a long way in its presence or absence.

Yes. Despite people bringing the Granolah arc every week on Daima threads (in a negative light), Granolah has a lot more going on with its characters and story compared to Daima.

Sure, towards the end of the arc things the story was dragging with over extended fights and lack of meaningful dialogue / interactions / building per chapter (which I would say it's similar to some complaints regarding Daima, pacing), the foundation was all built in the beginning. Every character throw in the conflict has a reason to be there and the main ones all have defined arcs too. Even if the end product was divisive, there was a lot of praised aspects during its run

[backthen]

Personally I don't know how they're going to fit everything into just 2 more episodes:

- Gomah has to be defeated

- Goku and/or Vegeta will likely use SSJ4 one more time

- The fusion bugs still have to be used because there was no point to introduce them otherwise

- Some time will be spent showing the main cast go back to their current ages, even if it's less than 5 minutes, that's still time out of the episode spent (and probably cut to everyone else back on Earth like Krillin, Yamcha, Trunks/Goten, etc)

- Arinsu has to be dealt with in some form. She's not going to get a fight, but just defeated her like Degesu will be really lame.

- Goku and co. have to say goodbye to Glorio, Panzy and the rest of the Demon Realm characters, this will take some time as this will be their sendoff to these characters. Duu and Kuu will likely stay behind as good guys in the Demon Realm.

- Last but not least, if they don't show Shin and Kibito accidentally fuse again in the last episode I will be pissed.

The bugs will be used to refuse Shin and Kibito.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Personally I don't know how they're going to fit everything into just 2 more episodes:

There was a rumor back when Daima started that the final episode would be 30 minutes long like how the first one was, so we may actually have 2 and a half left. If that's the case, then the regular run time of both episodes can be dedicated to the demon realm, while the extra 10 minutes can be spent on earth.

[QuakingStar]

It's very possible that this form IS the one that Beerus dreamed of, just not NOW.

If Goku got the form again later on it would then have God Ki as part of it since Goku has God Ki now.

So an astronomically stronger adult version of Goku combining his God Ki and his UI technique with SS4 the way he used UI with his other SS forms may make it the form that Beerus dreamed of.

But again these are all theories and bashing SupremeKai25 for this theory is just ridiculous. This is the toxicity in this forum that people talk about.

[SupremeKai25]

It's very possible that this form IS the one that Beerus dreamed of, just not NOW.

If Goku got the form again later on it would then have God Ki as part of it since Goku has God Ki now.

So an astronomically stronger adult version of Goku combining his God Ki and his UI technique with SS4 the way he used UI with his other SS forms may make it the form that Beerus dreamed of.

But again these are all theories and bashing SupremeKai25 for this theory is just ridiculous. This is the toxicity in this forum that people talk about.

I appreciate the sentiment, even though it's not my theory. I expect SSJ4 to be connected to Super and Lord Beerus, and frankly I don't think Toriyama remembered or cared that Piccolo shouldn't sense God ki. Plus we know literally nothing about this form, so it could be a proto version of SSG without God ki.

It's been my position from the beginning of this show that the lore drops in this show will be used by Super once its storylines continue. I fully expect the likes of SSJ4 and Rymus to have relevance in Super itself, and not be forgotten after Daima ends.

Of course that would require this fandom to accept that Daima is a prequel to Super and not a self-contained story, and there are STILL people who disagree with this even after Gowasu appeared in a flashback.

[danyq94]

This form does not share the lore with that ugly/lame form from GT. No lore about this form has been revealed, yet.

Look, we all understood a little bit that you really like the newer DB (and there's nothing wrong with that, I like it a lot too) and you discredit the old run of the franchise, but I really don't understand the reason to always reiterate “the ugly design,” “the horrendous design” , “the lame design” when you talk about GT's SSJ4.

Just say OG SSJ4 or GT SSJ4. I mean, no offense, but it just seems immature to repeat that you don't like something by belittling it.

[QuakingStar]

I liked the OG SS4. I like the new SS4. I'm indifferent to the fact it didn't forcefully age him into an adult for the duration of the wish even though I already know that the reason it happened in GT was that the SS4 is so strong it overpowers the wish Ultimate Shenron made while the form is in use.

[ZombieVito]

Never liked SS4 but just like what happened with Broly, this canon SS4 is growing on me.

[JulieYBM]

The weird allegiance people have to one part of the post-1984 comic series or the other is really just annoying to me, because it's just impossible to take anyone's views on anything seriously when all they do is play the weird games where they just go out of their way to make up reasons to never betray one brand for another. It's less about appreciating art and more about being a stubborn, insincere troll, and I think that's just kinda obnoxious.

[QuakingStar]

A lot of them do that, yes. I can't really take them seriously. DB has always had its imperfections and ups and downs, Toriyama was by no means perfect. But everyone is allowed to have what they do and do not like, and criticisms are not always a bad thing. It only becomes annoying when they sit there and state their opinions like they are facts and act like they alone are right.