Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 104 (Special One-Shot) - Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

I think it’s cute that Gohan inspired a next generation. We saw it happen when he was inspired by Piccolo into becoming a warrior, so it’s neat he inspired Trunks and Goten into becoming losers.

[Hellspawn28]

I was not expecting a cameo of Olibu. Goku not having his face is funny, but I feel like most people would have photos of him.

[Mr Baggins]

Can you give examples of how those other chapters were so much better?

Sorry, missed this post.

This chapter is far more reverential (there's at least one easter egg on damn near every page), far more straightforward, and generally has a lot less going on despite its relatively higher page count. And while the character interactions aren't bad per se, they pale in comparison to the chapters I mentioned – it says a lot that the opening SH prequel chapter alone establishes all new characteristics for teen Goten and Trunks, while here, there's basically nothing about them we didn't already know.

Again, that's not to say this is a bad chapter; far from it. It's a neat little arc for Trunks, and I like the twist with Gohan at the end. But it's just not the kind of writing you'd ever get from Toriyama's involvement, and this whole one-shot very likely wouldn't exist to begin with were it not for his passing.

[pepd]

Fun chapter and nice to have one after the break. Not much more to say.

Kinda wierd the statue with a "?" in his face, since they got the clothes and hair perfectly. It would´ve been funnier to have a innacurate ugly version of Goku instead or something. Tho shouldn´t be knowledge of Munaito be obscure? But I guess some rich entusiast or something could´ve make deep investigations so I don´t mind that much.

Guess I liked seeing Oribu for the nostalgia and surprise. Hope that if Toyo makes something more with him and the Other World Tournament he makes his own thing with variations like Tori, and not just "canonizes" the Z content pretending it always was.

Not a fan of Cleangod actor being Gohan, I found it refreshing to have a just strong human with a lesson until they revealed it, and it would´ve been funny for him to be under Satan training (but really, strong because Videl and Pan)

[Cybersai]

Guys, Goku was dead for 7 years, and developed SSJ3 there. He couldn't have done that without at least fighting/training against other strong fighters. The whole Otherworld tournament made perfect sense for the anime (and introduced all the other Kai's and Grand Kai who are canon), so there's no reason it couldn't have happened "off-screen" in the manga.

This also isn't the first time the Super manga/anime referenced characters not in Toriyama's manga canon (Gregory, Mr. Satan's disciples who were at the Cell games with him in the anime, now Olibu, etc), so I'd wager to say a lot of filler in the anime could become canon. Besides stuff that can't fit (Princess Snake I guess, and maybe Garlic Jr, lol)

[BernardoCairo]

I really liked this chapter. I feel like these Goten and Trunks stories are some of the things Toyotaro is most passionate about. It really seems like he’s having fun with it, you know?
Also, I felt a bit sad for Goku. The poor guy never gets the recognition he deserves, but I’m glad he doesn’t care about that at all

I think it’s cute that Gohan inspired a next generation.

He inspired Hedo, who ended up creating the androids that reignited his sense of fighting. Pretty nice.

[FortuneSSJ]

Best DBS arc got a great one shot. I'm pleased! Would love a mini series of this.

I missed DBS so much.
Always love how Toyotaro doesn't forget past lore. Didn't expect him to reference Olibu and Mutaito. These little things make DB world feel more connected.

Trunks not liking super hero stuff in the beginning is on par with his character in Buu arc, because he thought Great Saiyaman was lame.

The Clean God that ends up inspiring him being Gohan is a better plot twist than anything in Daima.

Love it!

[Yuji]

I didn't like the chapter. It felt inane. The dialogue wasn't particularly charming or interesting, it felt very robotic, and the whole chapter was too self-referential in a way Dragon Ball isn't -- the museum scene, Gohan being Clean God, the references to Saiyaman when crafting the new costumes. It's very self-aware of Dragon Ball's legacy to a fault.

[Bardock God of Time]

Fun chapter. Weird how Saiyaman got a statue though. Didn't he only stop some petty crimes in the manga?

He's married to Videl who is the daughter of Mr.Satan

Hercule probably commissioned the museum to add Great Saiyaman

[PhantomSaiyan]

I quite liked this one and I must admit, I've missed the Super manga.
I like Goten and Trunks, so I always appreciate when there's content about them in modern dragonball. Toyotaro did a good job. It's a bittersweet feeling, because this is his first chapter without Toriyama. I'd say he handled it pretty damn well, even though it was just a light one shot made to have enough content for a volume. The art was pretty good despite still presenting some anatomy mistakes here and there, but with toyotaro I'd say we're used to it lol the splash page of goha- I mean clean god was pretty damn good. Also, the kids drawing their costumes gave me some spiderman vibes lol other than that, I appreciated all of the lore references, toyotaro is always on point with that.

I just hope that we'll have some sort of news about when we can expect the Super manga to return. Or any dragonball at all. Idk what's going on with akio yoku, shueisha, the dragonball room, but I hope they give us an update soon on the future of the franchise. We at least need the black frieza arc, that would be a perfect conclusion to super. It sure looked like it was heading that way before toriyama's passing, with all of the surviving saiyans all gathered in one place.

[Basaku]

Can you give examples of how those other chapters were so much better?

Sorry, missed this post.

This chapter is far more reverential (there's at least one easter egg on damn near every page), far more straightforward, and generally has a lot less going on despite its relatively higher page count. And while the character interactions aren't bad per se, they pale in comparison to the chapters I mentioned – it says a lot that the opening SH prequel chapter alone establishes all new characteristics for teen Goten and Trunks, while here, there's basically nothing about them we didn't already know.

Again, that's not to say this is a bad chapter; far from it. It's a neat little arc for Trunks, and I like the twist with Gohan at the end. But it's just not the kind of writing you'd ever get from Toriyama's involvement, and this whole one-shot very likely wouldn't exist to begin with were it not for his passing.

It's not as strong as the 3-chapter previous story but it does an important thing better despite way more limited page count - stronger and more defined characterization for Goten. He was way too much an accesory to Trunks in the previous chapters with little stuff that was said about him/his interests or personality, only sorta implied. I think even Toyo may have realized that and self-corrected. Now we actually know/have it confirmed Goten's the more shy geeky one into superheroes, ghosts, vidya games and computers and came up with the whole Saiyaman thing, not even inspired by Gohan. It's good and gives him more defined and different persona to Trunks who already got well established in the 3-parter.

Now they both have something resembling a character after 30 years of nothing lol (GT ain't canon and had their personalities very 1-dimensional and very unlike their kid-selves). It will be much easier to have them training/participate in the main plots now, they desperately needed to be (re)established as their own characters first at least a lil bit

Cute chapter to cap off this mini arc, not like the main arc was going to return for just 1 month anyway so Toyo may as well have added a bit more to this. Glad he did

I just hope that we'll have some sort of news about when we can expect the Super manga to return. Or any dragonball at all. Idk what's going on with akio yoku, shueisha, the dragonball room, but I hope they give us an update soon on the future of the franchise. We at least need the black frieza arc, that would be a perfect conclusion to super. It sure looked like it was heading that way before toriyama's passing, with all of the surviving saiyans all gathered in one place.

If they don't have any news on the Super manga in June when 10th anniversary hits then lol. Literally no clue what is Shueisha waiting for. Agree that it should be the Black Freeza arc as the finale of the whole Super era. It's about time and Black Freeza cliffhanger is already 3 years old itself anyway..... People won't be hyped for it forever, Shueisha really can't seem to capitalize on anything

[Cybersai]

Do you guys think Trunks and Goten will remain relevant going forward? They had an aversion to using them as kids but now that's no longer an issue.

[Basaku]

Do you guys think Trunks and Goten will remain relevant going forward? They had an aversion to using them as kids but now that's no longer an issue.

Well Toyotaro seems to like them a lot so there's a big chance I say

[Galan007]

There’s no need for an After Life tournament because no one in the main cast is dead lol.

Freeza fought in the ToP even though he was dead... Why can't it also work the opposite way?

[goku the krump dancer]

There’s no need for an After Life tournament because no one in the main cast is dead lol.

Freeza fought in the ToP even though he was dead... Why can't it also work the opposite way?

That served a purpose of being a twist to the Tournsment of Power story arc.

Asking Goku and Vegeta to come fight in a deadman’s after life tournament doesn’t work because outside of movies, filler and GT, the dead do not keep their bodies unless they’re deemed super good natured. The bad guys generally get sent to hell before being reincarnated to a new being, except Freeza (and Dabura )who was sent to a special part of heaven where he’d be tortured-ish for all his misdeeds. It just doesn’t work considering the rules of the main continuity.

[Galan007]

That served a purpose of being a twist to the Tournsment of Power story arc.

Asking Goku and Vegeta to come fight in a deadman’s after life tournament doesn’t work because outside of movies, filler and GT, the dead do not keep their bodies unless they’re deemed super good natured. The bad guys generally get sent to hell before being reincarnated to a new being, except Freeza (and Dabura )who was sent to a special part of heaven where he’d be tortured-ish for all his misdeeds. It just doesn’t work considering the rules of the main continuity.

I guess I don't understand why that really matters?

Goku and Vegeta(in particular) will fight anyone deemed "strong" -- doesn't matter if they're good or evil, alive or dead, human or divine, etc. So if Otherworld ends up having a bunch of hyper-powerful [good] warriors, who the Saiyans think might be remotely fun to fight, that's just where they'd go.

The plot doesn't always need to have these ultra high-stakes or a defined evil villain -- that's just the algorithm we've been stuck in for a long time. A classic Tournament-style arc, with no real bad guy or underlying stakes, also works(at this point I'd argue that it would work even better for the franchise, tbh.) Just characters motivated to fight one another for the sheer love of fighting and to test their own limits -- not because the multiverse is on the line or whatever. /shrug

[Cybersai]

I mean if Kami/King Kai let Goku keep his body after death, it's logical to assume the other Kai's let some fighters on their sides of the galaxy keep their bodies after death too. Why would Goku (and later Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu, Piccolo), and even Vegeta during the Buu saga, be allowed to keep their bodies but nobody else?

It's perfectly reasonable to assume some version of the Otherworld tournament happened when Goku was dead for 7 years. They can simply throw in a flashback of Goku fighting Pikkon or whatever, what does it matter?

[goku the krump dancer]

That served a purpose of being a twist to the Tournsment of Power story arc.

Asking Goku and Vegeta to come fight in a deadman’s after life tournament doesn’t work because outside of movies, filler and GT, the dead do not keep their bodies unless they’re deemed super good natured. The bad guys generally get sent to hell before being reincarnated to a new being, except Freeza (and Dabura )who was sent to a special part of heaven where he’d be tortured-ish for all his misdeeds. It just doesn’t work considering the rules of the main continuity.

I guess I don't understand why that really matters?

In the grand scheme of things it might not matter much because an author(s) can always make and break rules as they see fit even if it’s to the detriment of the integrity of the universe they crafted.

But in the confines of the story that’s established so far, Goku fighting in an after life tournament even though he’s not dead would be redundant because he’s already fighting/training for Sport in the afterlife-ish environment of Beerus’ planet. He already knows that there’ll always be someone’s stronger because if nothing else the goal post of Beerus’ power is always moving.

No need to waist 50 chapters on a concept like that just to say “Yay Pikkon is Canon”.

[Benjamin-Simons-91]

This was overall a nice chapter to conclude Volume 24 with.

While I have enjoyed seeing Toyotaro's easter eggs from the Other World Tournament Saga, I didn't like the fact that Videl was used as a foods delivery lady instead of a martial arts teacher while Mr. Satan took a nap in his dojo.

I bet that she can take out both Idasa and Ikose (who should look their age, in their 20s).

[Zephyr]

Seems this story was from Toriyama after all, but didn't originally make it in because the prologue wasn't allowed to exceed 3 chapters.