Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 20 - Official Discussion Thread

[shadowfox87]

So the tertian oculus is now something you can just buy from the store. That lady is more suspicious than Darma, who created Majin Buu. I liked the series overall. I hope that this isn't the end and that there will be some movie or something later to explore the Demon Realm further.

[BernardoCairo]

And once again, here is Dragon Ball proving that Vegeta's "development" in Z was a fluke.
He learned absolutely nothing.

I don't know what you mean by this. Vegeta never gave up on being Goku's rival. He recognized Goku as a true warrior and one whose mentality was better than his. But that never meant he would just give up on being the best he could. His reaction to Super Saiyajin 4 was just natural.

I have noticed these past few weeks my willingness to post and keep up with this forum has reduced drastically, whether that be because Daima is painfully uninteresting, or Dragon Ball as a whole in general is.

I hope everything works out for you and that you eventually find a series that you actually enjoy to talk about.

Wow, Piccolo couldn't 3 for 3 Gomah's back shots.

Yeah, that was really sad to see, especially as a a Piccolo fan. Horrible showing.

[JulieYBM]

Whoops, I forgot to mention earlier, but I wanted to point out that the final fight just doesn't hit because there's no reason to be invested in Gokuu's battle with Gomah. They have no conflict, not much is riding on Gokuu winning, ultimately. With Jiren, there's a difference ideas driven to conflict by—to a lesser extent, the existence of the multiverse—but more importantly, driven by Jiren's trauma and immaturity. The Gokuu and Jiren battle works for that reason. Gokuu and Gomah barely share any dialogue, so their conflict just comes across as entirely impersonal, which undercuts any tension. It's not like Gokuu feels particularly threatened here, either. I'm not really sure what he's fighting for—something that could have either been depicted in the form of dialogue or storyboarding indicating what he's feeling.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, that was nice to end on. I mean, the first ten minutes bored the hell out of me. My mind wandered, wondering what the stakes were in this battle, why I was supposed to care. It looked nice. The music was great. But, geez, were there no emotional stakes in the battle. What's going to happen if Goku loses? I dunno. It's just flash and no substance.

I was really happy to realize the join bugs never got used because I probably would have fallen asleep had they devoted time to that. I was also happy because that's what I predicted, and it's fun to be right sometimes. I know I complain this show has terrible setup and payoff, but this actually was a good setup and payoff. The problem is, all the viewers had the expectation that the bugs were there to be used. But, no, they're there to set up Super Saiyan 4. "Oh, no, I lost those. I guess I'll have to figure something else out."

But, yeah, I was just staring at my watch the first ten minutes being miserable. Then, the second Majin Kuu hits Gomah with the book, it was like I was in an entirely different show, a good show! Everything from that moment on was charming and fun and satisfying and hilarious. It's worth it alone for that tag about the third eye.

Overall, this has been a pretty average show, but I was afraid my last impressions of it were going to be pretty bitter. To my surprise, at least, it left me at its best.

[FortuneSSJ]

They didn't bother to do a memory wipe because there's no canon in this franchise.
The fight was cool but the ending was anticlimactic. They had more than enough episodes to tell this story properly, they just ruined it with bad pacing and bad decisions

[tinlunlau]

This episode was kinda...meh...all that development with so little results. Wasn't the worst thing but it was underwhelming.

[fadeddreams5]

So apparently Goku could use ssj4 the entire time that’s ridiculous,so I’m assuming Daima takes place in another timeline because surely the writers aren’t going to believe anyone watching this thinks Daima and super takes place in the same continuity

lol. You know they will. Watch Goku randomly change into this form in Super's next season. No explanations given.

[AliTheZombie13]

I don't know what you mean by this. Vegeta never gave up on being Goku's rival. He recognized Goku as a true warrior and one whose mentality was better than his. But that never meant he would just give up on being the best he could. His reaction to Super Saiyajin 4 was just natural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SesWj-vVBaY

I swear, it's like I'm watching a Mexican soap opera, where the same damn character drama shows up every episode.

[Grimlock]

[Xeogran]

Gokuu and Gomah barely share any dialogue, so their conflict just comes across as entirely impersonal, which undercuts any tension.

I'll just say that Goku's fight with Majin Duu shouldn't have been interrupted. That one had actual stakes for both sides and overall felt more fun and enjoyable from the snippet we got. Especially since Marva also threatened with Duu being dangerous when he goes berserk... which never really happened.

[FinalForumPodcast]

Daima: fun, but forgettable. Funny, but perhaps too focused on jokes at the expense of making sense. Charming, but sloppy.

If I just sit back and enjoy it as a fun little nonsensical adventure, it's enjoyable, if a tad slow. The second I think about it, the problems start to loom very large.

I feel bad for people who care about things like continuity and lore and canon because this show didn't. I'm able to ignore almost all of that, but I can't get past the general storytelling faux pas and pacing issues. The show should have been either a LOT shorter or a LOT longer, and it's definitely telling that episodes were in production before the story and script were finished.

I enjoyed it though...on about the same level I do any of the Matsuri movies: a fun distraction.

[BernardoCairo]

I swear, it's like I'm watching a Mexican soap opera, where the same damn character drama shows up every episode.

But this isn't the same at all
Vegeta wasn't mad that Goku kept Super Saiyajin 4 as a secret, his pride was not "hurt"... There was no drama. Their rivalry is purely sporting.

I do agree that, of course, he peaked during the Boo Arc. But his current rivalry/friendship with Goku isn't really an issue for me.

[IntangibleFancy]

This was one of those episodes where it sounds dreadful written down in spoiler-form, but watching it isn’t so bad. Aside from the fact that Goku’s finisher was yet another Kamehameha (not as impressive as the one he fired as a toddler), I think my only other disappointments were that the fusion bugs don’t get used, Piccolo was useless the whole show, and Degusu did nothing but get chopped in the neck.

I was also hoping for a cliffhanger ending. Some kind of hope ‘n cope that there’s something else to look forward to in the future and that we aren’t returning to Gacha/DLC hell.

[ZeroNeonix]

Eh. I want to like this episode, but it just didn't hit the way I hoped it would. It's just of...meh.

Majin Kuu being elected the Supreme Demon King makes sense. He's strong, and he's also kind-hearted. I still think Piccolo would have made more sense, though. But he's just kind of been there this whole time. If he weren't in the show, it wouldn't affect much at all.

They seriously went without using the fusion bugs? Really? No fusions at all? They even return to the bug shop after, as if to remind us of the lack of utilization they had in the plot. They only use a few bugs to recover, and that's it. They were essentially Sensu Beans with a different skin. They weren't even used in critical moments to change the tides. They just randomly go, "Oh, I'm tired after all this walking. Better eat a bug."

It was hard to feel anything for the Super Saiyan 4 vs Gomah fight, knowing that Gomah would just immediately recover from any damage that was done to him. Since Gomah seems to match whatever power is used against him, Goku could have been using any form, and the result would have been the same.

The reveal that the Tertian Occulus wasn't even a unique item, but something that could be found in a random shop, was a funny gag, but like...how could they leave us on that note? What did they do with them? Did they destroy the other two eyes? Buy them and hide them somewhere? What happened? WHAT HAPPENED!?!?!? I feel like Toriyama trolled us.

I know this is a midquel, so expecting lasting consequences wouldn't be reasonable, but god. It just feels so pointless in the grand scheme of things. The only things we're left with are a few plot holes and some unanswered questions. This ending was just kind of...anticlimactic to me. It's not terrible, but just not satisfying. Skipping Daima just makes things make MORE sense. It's still the best in terms of animation quality, but I really wish the plot had more substance to it...

IMO, here's how I'd rank the Dragon Ball anime: DBZ > Dragon Ball >>> Super > Daima >>> GT. Not the worst, but could have been so much better.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

This episode did pretty much what I hoped it would do; it gave us an amazing looking fight and wrapped up the story nicely. I'm so happy that they didn't wipe everyone's memory in order for it to line up with Super, or for this to be some kind of dream Beerus had. Poor Piccolo he can't get a break, but Kuu finally doing something was nice to see, as he's been overshadowed by Duu for awhile now.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

This is the first time in 3 decades that something makes me not want to be a fan of the series anymore.

After all the crap they put out with Super on a weekly basis, this is where you draw the line in the sand ?

[FortuneSSJ]

This episode had the typical bad writing one should expect from Dragon Ball. The post-credits scene where they go to the shop, see more bugs and don't mention the fusion bugs at all was diabolical. Vintage Toriyama.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

• The fusion bugs were never used. What the heck was the point???

I think the bugs were used to throw us off Ssj4 appearing, as everyone assumed a new fusion would be the big surprise at the end.

• Goku revealed the name of his new form is, indeed, SSJ4. But the most interesting part is he also revealed Neva was NOT who helped him acquire it. Goku already unlocked this form by himself with training after the Buu arc, so I theorize Neva only helped him tap into it in his kid form.

I still vastly prefer the way Ssj4 was reached in GT, but Neva not just handing it to Goku was an improvement.

• Nahare never fused with Kibito again. Between that, Goku's SSJ4, and Vegeta's SSJ3, it is safe to say that Daima is indeed not canon to the Super timeline, and instead, is its own continuity.

As someone who likes Daima and doesn't like Super, I'm very happy they kept them separate.

• Majin Kuu is the MVP. It's so funny he was initially hated because everyone assumed he would be the final boss and replacement to Kid Buu, but he turned out to be not just a support character, but a fan favorite one at that.

Kuu and Duu are how you do a call back to a previous thing without it feeling unoriginal (take notes Golden Freeza and Cell Max).

[Baggie_Saiyan]

From the moment Shin defused it was never tieing to DBS, I don't know why people thought it would. The only references to DBS was via exposition to the audience as visual representation, Gowasu etc didn't actually appear in the show.

It doesn't make sense to make a whole new brand if it was gonna tie into DBS, similar reason why the DBZ branded BoG & RF movies had to be retold and rebranded as DBS

Yes Gomah was a weak villain but at least he actually spoke a few lines unlike DBS Broly...

[JulieYBM]

This is the first time in 3 decades that something makes me not want to be a fan of the series anymore.

After all the crap they put out with Super on a weekly basis, this is where you draw the line in the sand ?

I think people should stop seeing a work of art as an obligation and only engage with the art that they enjoy and have a fun time with. We should not feel obbligated to continually subject ourselves to art that is no fun to engage with. There is no sunk cost fallacy worth sinking further into frustration for.