Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 20 - Official Discussion Thread

[Vegeta th3 4th]

• The final scene was pretty weird, I still don’t get the point of it: is the Third Eye still a threat to the Demon World?

It was likely making fun of the fact that so many rare items can be found in small shops where you'd least expect to see them.

[Yuji]

That was a fun ending. Definitely agree that the first half felt weightless, I have not cared this little for a final fight in a Dragon Ball arc in a long time. But the second half was definitely full of charm, I loved that Koo got what he deserved, and the Third Eye gag at the end.

Unfortunately, Piccolo did nothing. It would have been far too simplistic for him to get the win, but he did nothing the whole show. I'm also uneasy about the resolution to the Neva subplot - what does Dende mean by the vagrant Namekians? New Namek exists.

The fusion bugs were a red herring, but it was poorly conveyed. The way Goku lost the bag, you'd expect it to be found again. If the bugs were not going to be used, the bag should have been destroyed to convey this better to the viewer. As it stands, they're more of a Chekhov's gun that didn't fire.

No way this connects to Super now. Besides the other issues, Goku has been training to achieve SS4 and can presumably use it at will, Shin stays unfused, Panzy came with the cast to the outside world, and Bulma has a lifetime supply of cosmetic bugs. I'm sure this is its own continuity now, a silly little side story.

Consider me extremely disappointed with Daima as a whole, for reasons I will detail on a rewatch (even though this series isn't making me looking forward to one), but I'm glad the last few episodes at least were fun. There could have been a good show here, somewhere.

[BernardoCairo]

Unfortunately, Piccolo did nothing.

I didn't mind this at the time, but after Daima, I began to feel frustrated thinking back on how Super Hero shifted from its original concept as a Piccolo-centric story, forcing him to share the spotlight with Gohan, who didn't deserve it.
Piccolo deserves more. He is MC material.

[ZombieVito]

After all the crap they put out with Super on a weekly basis, this is where you draw the line in the sand ?

What are you talking about? Super was fantastic and it didn't break canon completely like Daima did.

[nineko]

What can I say, I actually liked the ending.

I mean, the fight itself was pointless, nice to watch, but ultimately pointless. Goku hits Gomah, Gomah recovers, goto 1. I spent all the first half of the episode hoping that Goku would ask Vegeta for help, or that Vegeta would ask Dende/Neva for a quick refill, but no.

I liked Kuu being the MVP, him becoming king was unexpected and I really liked how they handled it. Happiness all around, and the inclusion of king Kadan. Hybis being random as usual, I know many people like him, but his volunteering here did nothing for me.

I liked how they hinted that Arinsu and Marba used the mafuuba on Degesu and Gomah, without actually naming the technique.

I didn't like how they didn't use the fusion bugs (nor bought some more while they were there). I like fusions, judge me.

It's good that the shields are down, yes, but they should definitely fix the new hole created by Goku, otherwise the second world would be completely drained, while the third world would be completely submerged. I also assume that they reactivated Warp Sama off-screen, while not needed for internal travels anymore, it probably still is the only gateway from/to the Outer World.

All in all... eh, Daima could have been better, but as I once said, I'll gladly watch even a painting class held by Mister Satan if that means there is new Dragon Ball content.

I might rewatch this episode (and this episode only, I didn't rewatch any of the other ones) eventually.

That's it. Unless I forgot something, in which case I'll comment again at a later time.

Let's hope the manga can resume now, and maybe the Super 2 anime can be a thing.

Thanks for the ride, and goodbye, Toriyama sensei.

[YamiGoku]

This is the first time in 3 decades that something makes me not want to be a fan of the series anymore.

After all the crap they put out with Super on a weekly basis, this is where you draw the line in the sand ?

Super had a lot of problems.... but it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Daima.




I'm not gonna make a wall of text explaining why I hate Daima out of respect for Toriyama (I think today is one year since he passed away), and I'm also tired of repeating myself and talking about Daima, I'm just glad it's finally over.

[Rory]

I'm very much in the 'everything after the fight was great' camp. Wish the series continued these interactions throughout. Especially that final post-credits scene, it had some incredible character animation, I had to rewind a few of them just to take it in.

Ultimately I'm really shocked at my feelings about Daima, for me it was such a strong start, with a beginning that felt so well sketched-out, but as it went on, details were lost, we started spinning wheels, only for things to kick back into high gear as we sped toward the end (weird mix of metaphors but you get it).
Another middling addition to the Dragon Ball sequels collection, where they all kinda end up as 'meh' as each other for one reason or another. I'll take it over Super, I suppose.
Somehow after all these years, all the criticism and all the jokes at its expense... GT still comes out on top.

[nato25]

After all the crap they put out with Super on a weekly basis, this is where you draw the line in the sand ?

What are you talking about? Super was fantastic and it didn't break canon completely like Daima did.

Super had more than it's fair share of problems and anyone saying otherwise either has forgotten or had recency bias with not liking Daima.

I feel mixed on this episode. Goku seemed strangely drawn at the beginning like he was much shorter than normal but apart from that animation was on point. The Kamehameha was beautiful throughout and the ending was cold.

I can't believe the join bugs weren't used, what a strange thing to focus on and never actually use, not even as a gag.

I agree with all the piccolo hate, he was useless almost the entire series. I wonder how many lines he even had total. Same could be said about Degesu and to a lesser extent gomah, sure he didn't have much personality but these guys were in his way of ruling the demon realm so while there's no personal connection he has reason to fight.

And I don't understand this series direction with canon. We go so far to recall something that's so much as a deep cut as Piccolos father being Katatz and show all the other universe kais, but we don't care about any other details.

Everything with Kuu and Duu really worked well, probably the best new introductions in the series. I liked nevas character a lot too.

The awful pacing that episodes 13 to 16 dealt us with really could have been used better. At least one more episode where we go back home and explain a few things would have been so appreciated.

Once again I feel as a fan I'm forced to pick and choose what fits in my own vision for the canon and that kind of sucks. I think it's best to see this as another alternate story just like GT except this time in the gap before End of Z.

For everyone that can just 'enjoy it for what it is', I envy you guys. As a fan going on 25 years now I love when meaningful lore is added to this series, and when the opposite happens it just makes me feel conflicted.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I noticed some people are saying Vegeta regressed in this episode, but I honestly don't see it. He asked Goku why he hid Ssj4 from him, to which Goku said the same reason you hid Ssj3 from me. It was a fun little conversation, I don't think anything was intended by it.

[Rory]

Oh! Also forgot - Damn Nozawa KILLED it in this episode! I've been a critical of her performances over the last few years (acknowledging it's not remotely her fault), but something about her voice acting here totally brought Goku home. Her screams packed so much punch. I'm not sure if this was recorded after Toriyama's parting, but it almost felt like a 'go out swinging' kind of performance.
As if this was the last fight penned by Toriyama, so let's go for a home run. Incredible skills on display.

[Tian]

Just watched it.

I can't really say I completely enjoyed the episode but it was OK. Not good but not bad either.

What I liked:
* The way that Kamehameha pierced through Gomah. YES, we needed something like that. Even though it wasn't the finishing blow, we really needed it.
* Kuu being named the next Daima-Oh. From the moment I first saw the guy, I knew something great was gonna happen to him and I'm glad it did.
* Ultra Vegeta 1. LMAO. That moment was gold.

What I didn't like:
* SSJ4 being relegated to just a form that we will only see in side-stories and not in main story. It's kinda sad and insulting.
* Not to mention the ridiculous fact that Goku was able to use it all this time.
* Piccolo being useless. This sucks and more when you remember that Toriyama liked Piccolo.
* The third eye being a somewhat easy accessible item and its effect being already known by others.
* The fusion bug not being used at all. Damn, why the hell do you introduce something that's not gonna be used anyway?

Now, about Daima overall...

The story and plot devices could've been handled a little better. There were clearly pace and character development problems and the series didn't take good advantage of its 20 episodes length.

Despite this, I'm glad that the art direction and the soundtrack of Toriyama's swan song was in good hands.

Thank you, Toriyama-sensei. Dragon Ball has been on my life for nearly 20 years and I hope what's next for the franchise stays true and faithful to your style.

P.S: Yeah, I'm also disappointed that Daima turned out to be just a side-story but we should've expected this since it was an anniversary series and sometimes, anniversary stuff don't necessarily fit with the main continuity.

[Artorias]

Seeing a lot of discourse online already about how this was "terrible" and "completely ruined the show". Can someone explain why? I'm not a fan of this show overall, but this episode did not stand out as being particularly bad or "ruining" anything. I'd even dare to say it was actually one of the better episodes (to be clear "better" in Daima is still pretty bad to me). I'm genuinely confused as to the vitriolic reaction it's getting in some corners of the internet, because from my perspective, there are WAY worse episodes in Daima to be mad about than this one. Is it literally just because there are plot holes with Super? I came to terms with the fact that this won't link up well with Super from the very beginning, really confused as to why everyone is surprised. Did they really think this would smooth everything over and make it all perfectly sync up? Seems to be unrealistic expectations. I have a lot of problems, as I do with every single episode of this damn show, but this one seems to be really be taking a disproportionate beating.

My biggest problem with the episode is that the final fight was absolutely and completely pointless. Literally. Goku's actions had absolutely nothing to do with how Gomah was defeated. They just lucked into Kuu getting knocked within range of his head. Nothing the protagonists did mattered in the end at all. You could literally skip from the end of episode 16 to the moment Kuu knocks him out, and nothing functionally would be missed. There was no character development in between, no plot advancement. Nothing. Everyone punched each other for a bit and then lucked into the villain basically getting himself defeated. Add this to the garbage pile of modern Dragon Ball stories where the main heroes either don't win or only win because they're bailed out by some outside force. Getting REAL sick of this.

Oh! Also forgot - Damn Nozawa KILLED it in this episode! I've been a critical of her performances over the last few years (acknowledging it's not remotely her fault), but something about her voice acting here totally brought Goku home. Her screams packed so much punch. I'm not sure if this was recorded after Toriyama's parting, but it almost felt like a 'go out swinging' kind of performance.
As if this was the last fight penned by Toriyama, so let's go for a home run. Incredible skills on display.

Big agree. She understandably can't really bring it as much as she used to, but in this episode, she was reaching octaves I haven't heard from her in 30 years.

[Extreme_kai]

So I stand corrected. Episodes 19 and 20 are not goated, only 19 is. This was a huge drop imo from 19. They should have let Gomah die after getting turned into a donut, but no... Goku and Co had to defeat the final boss the way the 'game' intended. Piccolo was an embarrassment and a straight-up fraud. Also, the celebrations for Glorio stepping on the eye were just hilariously silly. It reminds me of people being happy someone finally squished the spider that was scurrying around the house.

Ssj4 in Daima looks less cool the more I see it. The arms just look too silly to take seriously. It's a shame, I was hoping it would grow on me, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. All the stuff with Kuu being the New Demon King and assigning Minster roles just screamed "We didn't know what the fuk to do with all these characters". I'm just glad Daima is over and I'll never have to watch it again. 5/10. This was just insultingly bad IMO. If I wasn't so bloody sick rn I'd write more about how much I hated this episode. Shin and Kibito are still unfused, No fuse bug fusion, and not freeing the 3rd demon realm citizens of their collars *sigh*... At least sassy Vegeta sitting in his chair, and Panzy forcing Vegeta to wave was cute. The episode would've been a 4/10 if it wasn't for those Vegeta scenes and that cute little post-credits scene.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

What I liked:
* The way that Kamehameha pierced through Gomah. YES, we needed something like that. Even though it wasn't the finishing blow, we really needed it.

It's been so long since we saw Goku actually try to kill someone.

What I didn't like:
* SSJ4 being relegated to just a form that we will only see in side-stories and not in main story. It's kinda sad and insulting.

Daima and GT are no more side stories than Super is. The original manga is the only main story there is.

[mecha3000]

It's just as I said in another thread, Daima DIDN'T end up resolving the plotholes that contradict Super. So, all the fans and DB YouTubers thinking it would now have egg on their faces. Other than that, THANK GOD Daima is over. Sure, it had its bright spots, but on the whole, it felt really pointless and a waste of time. I'm so glad it was only 20 episodes even if this last episode felt rushed.

Honestly, I still prefer GT and in some ways, Super. That said, I appreciate Toriyama for gifting us one last Dragon Ball project directly from him and look forward to what becomes of Dragon Ball moving forward. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'll take Super 2.0 with Moro and Gas at this point. No more turning the characters into kids, we've done it twice between GT and Daima. Honestly, I just want a series that explores Uub and EoZ already.

But with no respect to Toriyama, good riddance Daima. I don't even think I'll be following the dub too much except for the final episodes.

[Yuji]

I thought ending the fight on a Kamehameha was lame. The attack has been done so much as a finisher that you need something unique to stand out, like vs Kefla. We just saw one two episodes ago.

[Artorias]

Does anyone else feel like the final fight wasn't quite as good as the previous few? To be clear, it was still really entertaining and quite impressive animation wise, but it just felt like something was missing. It seemed just a bit...unfocused, a bit "scattershot". Like something with the directing was off. I can't quite pinpoint it. I found myself enjoying the fights from the previous three episodes more than this, which I didn't expect. Also doesn't help that I was quite disappointed that Shida's section was literally like 15 seconds.

[BernardoCairo]

The original manga is the only main story there is.

I agree. However, one could argue that Super qualifies as a "main story" given its longer runtime, greater investment, and extensive merchandise. It's just as popular as Z was during its time. GT and Daima feel more like extras in that regard.

Super 2.0 with Moro and Gas at this point

I hope this happens eventually. Following the manga with the anime is definitely the right approach.

[Soba Mask]

We have 3 different timelines now or better 5

GT
Daima
Super Anime
Super Manga
Super Movies

Straight up bullshit. Hell not even the multiverse of Marvel is such a Trainwreck

[UpFromTheSkies]

Since Goku learned to use SS4 before Daima, I'm guessing he didn't have enough energy as a child to transform on his own, and that's what Neva helped with.

I don't see any way to tie this into Super, though, it kind of feels like Toriyama just retconned everything. Although we did get a nod to Ultra Ego Vegeta, with Vegeta calling SS3 "Ultra Vegeta 1".

It will be interesting to see what Toyotaro does with this.